FOMOfx - Virtual Jeff

Started by mbenigni, January 07, 2016, 09:46:03 AM

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Elantric

QuoteWhat if one coupled the whammy bar/potentiometer/MIDI CC output with Antares ATG-1?  You could get 1 octave up/down pitch bends and it would return to perfect pitch afterwards (using solid tune).

That makes me wonder if I could build it into my next ATG luthier kit install.

I'll be meeting with Antares next week at NAMM  - I'll discuss the options that might be possible for implementing  for this  feature on future versions of the ATG.


GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Elantric on January 17, 2016, 09:10:56 AM
I'll be meeting with Antares next week at NAMM  - I'll discuss the options that might be possible for implementing  for this  feature on future versions of the ATG.

Great!  While you're at it, please lobby for a 6-channel 13-pin version of the luthier kit!   ;D
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

mooncaine

The internal ATG stuff you all are doing fascinates me. Great idea, GB, to imagine combining it with digital whammy-ness.

Elantric

#28
I played the Virtual Jeff today

It's a great tool and easy to get used to playing

It's comprised of a guitar mounted tremolo arm module which I understand is optical sensor based design.

A 3.5mm TRS Cable ties this to a floor mounted dual foot switch box where the CPU resides and there is a rear mounted 5pin MIDI Output jack. That connects to the MIDI input of
a stock 2015 Digitech Whammy pedal for DSP pitch bend audio processing.

The Virtual Jeff system is  adaptable for other use with other gear besides the Digitech Whammy ( like a VG-99, or Antares ATG-1)

The  footswitch selects separate operating ranges and control ramp curves . 
One mode was shallow, and reacted like a bigsby , the other mode was more aggressive and reacted like a Jeff Beck, Vai Satriani octave up down Or 5th up Down - and they talked about a future control editor for adusting these curves to user preference.

I want one
$350 street price


thebrushwithin

QuoteA 3.5mm TRS Cable ties this to a floor mounted dual foot switch box where the CPU resides and there is a rear mounted 5pin MIDI Output jack. That connects to the MIDI input of
a stock 2015 Digitech Whammy pedal for DSP pitch bend audio processing.

Sounds great! Is it necessary to hookup the midi out to achieve what they are showing in the video, or is that just an optional hookup to use? The price is fairly friendly too.

Elantric

#30
MIDI out is essential part

The Virtual Jeff is simply a MIDI  Controller

scratch17

Thanks for the info Elantric. This looks really useful. I do have a few questions.

Quote from: Elantric on January 23, 2016, 12:13:13 AM

It's comprised of a guitar mounted tremolo arm module which I understand is optical sensor based design.

How does tremolo arm module mount to the guitar?

QuoteThe Virtual Jeff system is  adaptable for other use with other gear besides the Digitech Whammy ( like a VG-99, or Antares ATG-1)

Please confirm the following:

1. You would connect the MIDI out on Virtual Jeff floor module to the VG-99 MIDI in. The result would be pitch control on whatever patch was being played on the VG-99.

2. If you wanted to control a different parameter with the Virtual Jeff you could use a MIDI Mapper to change the CC parameter number.



Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

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abhijitnath

My usual question. Is a left handed version planned?

vanceg

The Virtual Jeff is attached to the guitar using a small baseplate that the VJ slides into.  This baseplate is attached to the guitar using a special 2 sided tape.  It was very secure and even when I got fairly "aggressive" with the bar, it didn't show any signs of coming off at all. 
The baseplate is a nice idea because this means you can move it from one guitar to another very easily.

Yes - one could absolutely run the virtual Jeff into the VG-99 and control any parameter controllable via MIDI, including the whammy bar effect in the VG-99.

However - it's important to note that while the virtual Jeff uses standard MIDI messages, the builder was very clear that the VJ sends different MIDI messages depending on what pitch shifter it is controlling.
For example - when controlling the WhammyPedal, he uses two MIDI cc messages - one for when the whammy bar moves from center position down, and one for when it moves from center position up.  He also sends a midi Program Change message when he hits the center point.  This is due to the fact that the WhammyPedal is designed to work with a standard non-centering volume pedal, so each WhammyPedal preset only goes one direction (whammy up, or whammy down, not both).  So he sends a program change measage to move from one preset to another.  One cool side effect of this is you essentially double the MIdI resolution to 256 steps over the full whammy range. 

That was a long winded explanation but the POINT is that YES - we can absolutely use this with the VG-99.  I will be working with him to ensure that we have a VG-99 mode and/or that one of the existing modes works perfectly with the VG-99.

Quote from: scratch17 on January 24, 2016, 12:03:27 PM
Thanks for the info Elantric. This looks really useful. I do have a few questions.

How does tremolo arm module mount to the guitar?

Please confirm the following:

1. You would connect the MIDI out on Virtual Jeff floor module to the VG-99 MIDI in. The result would be pitch control on whatever pnatch was being played on the VG-99.

2. If you wanted to control a different parameter with the Virtual Jeff you could use a MIDI Mapper to change the CC parameter number.

drbill

GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Now_And_Then

 I am just now becoming interested in CV stuff; I would assume that there would be devices which could translate midi messages from the Virtual Jeff into CV's, like, let's say, the Kenton Pro-SOLO MkII, presumably? (Not that I am prepared to spend the time and treasure to accomplish this any time soon. But it would be good to know that it can be done, should I ever feel the need to acquire the capabilities.)


Quote from: vanceg on January 24, 2016, 07:32:56 PM
The Virtual Jeff is attached to the guitar using a small baseplate that the VJ slides into.  This baseplate is attached to the guitar using a special 2 sided tape.  It was very secure and even when I got fairly "aggressive" with the bar, it didn't show any signs of coming off at all. The baseplate is a nice idea because this means you can move it from one guitar to another very easily.

This concerns me because I have an abiding and immediate interest in the Gizmotron 2 and their mounting system also relies on two-sided tape. How certain can one be that removing the tape will not damage the guitar's finish, or that leaving the tape in place on the guitar for very long periods of time will not also damage the finish?

Which in turn prompts the question, if the tape is so secure, how do you get it off at all?


mbenigni

Quote from: Elantric on January 23, 2016, 10:20:55 AM
MIDI out is essential part

The Virtual Jeff is simply a MIDI Pitch Controller

I think I overestimated the scope of technology when I first saw the demo (I thought there was some independent polyphonic pitch-shifting going on) but it is still pretty cool.

Elantric

#37
QuoteI thought there was some independent  polyphonic pitch-shifting going on

Virtural Jeff supports Digitech Whammy Pedal only at this time.

They demonstrated this last weekend at NAMM thanks to the  STOCK 5th generation Digitech Whammy which Virtual Jeff controlled  at   FOMOfx's NAMM booth.

Learn more about 5th generation Digitech Whammy here:
http://digitech.com/en-US/products/whammy-5th-gen

vanceg

The virtual Jeff sends MIDI cc now.  No other devices are needed to convert to midi cc.
All I was saying is that the virtual Jeff can (and needs to be) set to send different MIDI messages to each type of pitch shifter it is connected to.
Each devices responds to differnt messages and some (like the whammy pedal) need to receive multiple midi messages in order to make the best use of the Virtual Jeff hardware.

All of that would be programmable in the virtual Jeff or in the pitch shifter that is receiving the messages.

That's all.

I suppose there is no 100% guarentee that using any two sided tape would be safe for every finish and for any duration.   

Quote from: Now_And_Then on January 24, 2016, 08:57:17 PM
I am just now becoming interested in CV stuff; I would assume that there would be devices which could translate midi messages from the Virtual Jeff into CV's, like, let's say, the Kenton Pro-SOLO MkII, presumably? (Not that I am prepared to spend the time and treasure to accomplish this any time soon. But it would be good to know that it can be done, should I ever feel the need to acquire the capabilities.)

 

This concerns me because I have an abiding and immediate interest in the Gizmotron 2 and their mounting system also relies on two-sided tape. How certain can one be that removing the tape will not damage the guitar's finish, or that leaving the tape in place on the guitar for very long periods of time will not also damage the finish?

Which in turn prompts the question, if the tape is so secure, how do you get it off at all?

thebrushwithin

#39
Unfortunately, I thought it was a stand alone unit, and all the hookups it needs make it a no go for me. My wireless GuitarWing gets the job done. Wish it was wireless.

slooky

Looks to me like he has it hooked up to a Yamaha mini guitar, the APXT2

mooncaine

What I'm hearing about Virtual Jeff sounds like about $200 bucks worth to me. $350 is a bit much to ask for a MIDI controller that ain't even wireless and relies on me providing the actual pitch-shifter.

I like that someone made a *whammy* that takes care of the recentering prob, and I might be getting one anyway, just because. Well, that 'future control editor' might make all the difference.

OK, now that I think about, I can see more upsides, like:

- it's modular and uses MIDI, so at least I have the choice of what to use to shift pitch.
- it's modular and uses MIDI, so I could use it to control other things, not necessarily only pitch.
- the cable isn't too hard to find, fix or build, and it's a sturdy enough connector. My solutions have been way more fiddly and fragile.
- it's modular, so I can move it to another guitar and back again.

And of course, pretty much all electronic whammy solutions have these advantages:

- no more stretching and loosening the metal strings (sheesh, I hate that compromise).
- no more trying to find the right spring thingy to make your particular whammy bar bend as far as you want, but not too far.
- bending up, as far as you want!

alexmcginness

if this works on the VG-99, IM IN!!!!!
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

vanceg

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on January 17, 2016, 08:33:31 AM
What if one coupled the whammy bar/potentiometer/MIDI CC output with Antares ATG-1?  You could get 1 octave up/down pitch bends and it would return to perfect pitch afterwards (using solid tune).

That makes me wonder if I could build it into my next ATG luthier kit install.  I could include the MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller circuitry right on the guitar.

You could. Absolutely.  But, note that the Virtual Jeff's MIDI output is on it's footpedal, NOT on the unit mounted to the guitar.  However, it is conceivable that the CV output of the Virtual Jeff's control unit could be routed directly into the Luthier's kit control input port.

vanceg

Quote from: alexmcginness on January 29, 2016, 08:44:35 AM
if this works on the VG-99, IM IN!!!!!

It will.  The manufacturer and I will be working on a preset for the Virtual Jeff specifically for the VG-99. It may be as simple as sending a single MIDI CC message...but I'm thinking it may send one MIDI CC for "Bend - up" and another one for "Bend - down" so that we can get more thank 127 steps of resolution.  There's an issue of:  what do you do when you are NOT using the whammy bar - Do you turn the Whammy Bar function OFF on the VG-99 or do you just set it to 0?  You'll notice a very small difference in tone when the whammy is ON but still set to 0 compared to when the whammy is OFF. 

alexmcginness

#45
Just need to assign the on off to a control pedal. The up down thing would be nice too. Im using a Traveller escape MKII with a GK=3 on it into the VG-99. A whammy bar would be welcome instead of usin the D-Beam for dives. Cant wait to try one.

OH yeah. I havent looked close at it but heres a major concern for me. Is the cable that comes out of it hard wired or is it a plug in? The reason why Im asking is that all hard wired cables break down due to mechanical stress over time and are a PITA to fix in the middle of a gig, where as a TRS cable that just plugins at both ends only requires a spare cable and youre back up and running.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Elantric

#46
QuoteIt will.  The manufacturer and I will be working on a preset for the Virtual Jeff specifically for the VG-99.

Good luck with that


the  FOMOfx  - Virtual Jeff i played at NAMM used a normal 3.5mm TRS cable that plugged into female jacks  at each end (one 3.5mm TRS female jack on the Whammy bar side ( with right angle 3.5mm TRS plug)


and the other end plugged into a 3.5mm TRS jack on the floor pedal 

alexmcginness

can you just plug the TRS cable directly into the expression pedal in on the VG-99 and forget about the box on the floor?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Elantric

#48
Quotecan you just plug the TRS cable directly into the expression pedal in on the VG-99 and forget about the box on the floor?
No - because the floor unit contains the CPU with the necessary "return to zero" algorithm that corrects for any slop  / mechanical play / hysteresis in the "return to zero" mechanical function of the spring loaded guitar mounted trem arm potentiometer. 

The dip switches on the floor unit provide different operating mode reaction curves, and the designer told me the production version would have a GUI editor to enable various user defined operating mode reaction curves   


alexmcginness

#49
thanks for that. Im still in when this comes out. My traveller Escape is gonna look like a borg assimilated organism with this, the GK-3 and the guitar wing on it. Cant wait.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.