Best 24 Bit IOS Audio Interface for Live Guitar

Started by Elantric, December 14, 2013, 04:13:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elantric

#50
Re bit depth on Ipad interfaces, if you use a Zoom G3 or Fender GDEC 3 or Korg PX5D as your Guitar processor then 16 bits is not too bad. I made some great sounding demos using my GDEC 3 and Ipad running Meteor Multitrack.

But if you intend to use Ipad for the whole enchilada for amp sims with  Bias  24 bits is mandatory.

mbenigni

Quote from: DeRigueur on January 08, 2014, 06:14:34 AM
Anybody know what the specs are for the Rocksmith guitar cable?

I don't know the specs, but I can confirm that with a CCK it is compatible with - for instance - Jam Up Pro, and sounds great.  If I had to guess at the specs I'd say 44K/ 16-bit, just because I'd expect them to go with the most common, low-cost parts available.  48K/ 16-bit is also likely, but I'd be shocked to hear it was a 24-bit depth.

DeRigueur

Quote from: mbenigni on January 08, 2014, 07:05:28 AM
I don't know the specs, but I can confirm that with a CCK it is compatible with - for instance - Jam Up Pro, and sounds great.  If I had to guess at the specs I'd say 44K/ 16-bit, just because I'd expect them to go with the most common, low-cost parts available.  48K/ 16-bit is also likely, but I'd be shocked to hear it was a 24-bit depth.
Thanks for the info.  I already have a Rocksmith cable so I thought I'd try it out.
Do you know if there are any "budget" CCKs that work?
Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

mbenigni

I've only tested it with the "official" CCK - it's the only one I own.

At the time, I was also using a 30-pin to Lightning adaptor, in order to use it with an iPad Air.  I wouldn't expect compatibility to be impacted by removing the 30-pin-to-lightning dongle, though.

The only problem with using the Rocksmith cable (vs. a standard cable and interface) is that it's bound eventually to wear and start giving you trouble.  With the ADC integrated that puts you in a bind, unless you happen to own a backup or two.  I was starting to have shorts at the 1/4" end, which made me feel better about having ordered an iRig Pro.

But it's a good stopgap solution while you decide on an alternative.

Elantric

#54
I hear good things about the Shaark versions - Before IOS7 - it seems IOS7 broke" most third party CCKs

http://www.amazon.com/SHARKK%C2%AE-Connects-Cameras-Generation-PICTURE/dp/B0068RKK18/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389199072&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=shaark+ipad+usb

Ringleader

I would advise against any 3rd party CCKs. They might work in some applications, but odds are you will get burned down the road. And it makes troubleshooting much more difficult because you'll always wonder if the genuine one would work.

Weed_

#56
Hello!

I am looking for very portable but still quality sounding interface to carry in my pocket with iphone pretty much all the time, for practicing and jamming and idea recording purposes. For real recordings, I would rather use some better interface that I have in home studio.

Right now I have my eyes on:
JamUp plug - great price and the best size to keep in the pocket.
Apogee jam 96k - supposed to be best sound quality
iRig Pro - all-around winner, specially since I can use it also for vocal effects with iphone, on concerts where I play guitar thrue traditional guitar stuff. + midi in is awesome feature.

Now, is there anyone who tried both JamUp plug and any of the other two and can compare sound quality?? Basically I would just like to know if the JamUp plug will suit my needs or am I just wasting money and will end up buying iRig Pro..?

Thanks!

mbenigni

First question is whether the MIDI in is something you'll really use, or just something that looks good on paper.  If you need it, the iRig Pro is a no brainer.  Otherwise, you can also consider the iRig HD, which is a bit smaller and about $50 cheaper.  As far as I know the audio path is identical to that of the iRig Pro.

steph069

Hi

I am also looking for similar interface with Midi/audio 24bits/Host for triple play dongle that also charge the ipad etc..

I looked over the focusrite new idock that looks nice but no 5 pins midi connectors

and I came to the new iconnect audio 4 (and as I have some iconnect midi devices, I know it is serious stuff in Midi)

check out this link I think this is what we were all looking for for ipad. I just hope that audio/preamp etc.. are good sound quality as I have no experience with iconnect audio devices.

http://iconnectivity.com/iConnectAudio4plus



Jim Williams

Right now I am using a Line 6 Sonic port and it sounds great and I think it is about the quality as a Apogee jam. I also have the jamup plug and an iRig and they are about the same quality(they suck!). The iRig pro will be my next thing for my iPad rig. I think it is about the same quality as the Apogee jam also with some more bells and whistles (XLR input, Gain control and midi connection). There are some iDock devices out there with some more features but the iRig Pro seems to be the best bang for the buck and you can't beat the portability.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Elantric

#60
Quotethe iRig Pro seems to be the best bang for the buck and you can't beat the portability.

I love mine!

My smallest iPad FTP+ 24 bit Audio rig is described below - lets work backwards - starting at the iPad.

1) Use an iPad (newer than 1st gen)

2) Use the specific Apple USB Camera adapter (30pin or Lightning) appropriate for your iPads dock connector type.   

3) Use a small USB 2.0 Powered Hub - like the Pluggable - and its included 2.5Amp Power supply.


connect the output of the USB Hub into the Apple USB Camera Adapter.

**   For mobile operation substitute a separate USB Battery pack to power the USB Hub.

*  RAVPower Element 10400mAh External Battery Pack Charger Power Bank (Dual USB Outputs,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009V5X1CE/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




4) Connect the FTP Receiver into the USB Hub.  - You should then power up your guitar mounted FTP Controller and see the red "link" LED on the FTP Receiver light up, and then launch an IOS MIDI Monitor app and see MIDI Note On / off messages being input into the iPad from the FTP. Most IOS Synths will instantly recognize the FTP as the MIDI Input device, and respond to your playing.

5) Connect  any USB Audio Class compliant device - there are many too numerous to mention, most are listed here:
http://auriaapp.com/Support/auria-audio-interfaces
Some are large  - some are small, some have only 16 bit resolution  - which presents a problem with Positive Grid Bias, as you are really clobbered and not able to appreciate the joy of Bias until you try it with a 24 bit Audio Interface with a clean instrument preamp - so that narrows the field.
For small, I use the iRig Pro
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigpro/


DO not confuse this recent 3rd generation 2013 era IK Multimedia iRig Pro 24 bit dock port interface (above) with their older garbage  "iRig" (below) that connects to the iphone mic input

- they are chalk and cheese.

Its too bad Line 6 dropped the ball on the Sonicport - the early prototypes I saw featured 3 connection cables 30 pin , Lighting, and USB.

Line 6 dropped the USB cable from the final production version. 

Edit:  Luckily Line 6 sorted this out for the SonicPort VX - which DOES work with Macs running OSX  using a Micro USB Cable, and allows charging the IOS device when used with the Lightning cable   

tomtheguitarguy

Quote from:  Elantric on April 18, 2014, 04:49:44 AM


3) Use a small USB 2.0 Powered Hub - like the Pluggable - and its included 2.5Amp Power supply.


connect the output of the USB Hub into the Apple USB Camera Adapter.

**   For mobile operation substitute a separate USB Battery pack to power the USB Hub.

*  RAVPower Element 10400mAh External Battery Pack Charger Power Bank (Dual USB Outputs,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009V5X1CE/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



What USB to barrel connector are you using to power the Pluggable?  The two I've seen on Amazon and EBay have been too small or too large...

Thanks!
http://www.tomtheguitarguy.com ~ http://www.tomcatsband.com
CIJ Blue Floral w/ McVay G Bender
G & L Will Ray Signature ASAT w/ Hipshot B Bender
JTV-69 James Tyler Variax
Fishman TriplePlay ~ Roland GR-55
Dr. Z RxES 2x12
Quilter MicroPro200 10" ~ Quilter Aviator 8" ~ Quilter Steelaire
Bose L1 Classic

Elantric

#62
QuoteWhat USB to barrel connector are you using to power the Pluggable?  The two I've seen on Amazon and EBay have been too small or too large...

Thanks!

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg78831#msg78831
<DF400 wrote>
QuoteOnly one observation, the 3.5mm barrel plug was too small. I ended up using a 1.7mm I.D., 4.7mm O.D. for the Plugable unit.

Yui

Hello

Is there any solution for charging iPad when audio interface connected such as APOGEE ONE for iPad?

Elantric

#64
Apogee Duet does.
www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet-2


Advanced Search Tool
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2978.0


Charge IOS while using a USB hub and Irig HD or other Interface
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11501.msg83630#msg83630
Quote
anyone come across a way to charge an iPad/iphone while using an audio interface to the lightning port, any DIY methods. I have an external portable battery which charges my iPhone but would like to also use an Irig HD at the same time. My iPad has sufficient battery power but still it would be nice to not Have to pre-charge it which takes quite long in itself.

I was thinking of some way of splicing together the cables of a lightning sync cable and lightning to usb adapter but don't know much about how these work.

Not possible for mere mortals due to the requirement for an Apple mFI Hardware ID IC chip to tell the iPad/iPhone that the attached hardware has been reviewed by Apple and complies with the Apple mFI (Made for IOS Device)  Specification.
https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/


I should point out I tried a Lightning version of this USBHub  - with the goal of providing a shortcut and lower cost and possibly hack to charge the iPad (no Apple CCK required)!

this one:
http://m.dckina.com/mobile.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1555


It actually worked - but eventually every  3 -5 minutes I would experience temporary USB data connection loss  - and random audio drop outs which took 5 seconds for the audio to make a new USB data connection again  - so its not recommended. Since this USB Hub Includes a non qualified Lightning port I suspect the culprit is the Apple mFI qualified External Hardware check routine in latest IOS 7. but this is only a  theory. The latest Apple mFI spec requires the third party vendors to use apple supplied mFI verification ICs in their hardware designs - and this Lightning 4 port HUB does not have one.

https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/



Before you say " thats a stupid hurdle that Apple imposes on creative folks"  - remember in 2014 has more Cash than many countries, and anything that charges the iPad incorrectly might possibly lead to an explosion, and lawsuits and loss of revenue to Apple - thus the tighter control Apple imposes on "official" hardware.
http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-ipad-air-explodes-why-burst-flames-was-likely-charger-issue-not-ipad-problem-1464474

Remember the general public ( and many musicians who have been living under a rock) still are unaware that an Apple product marketed as "Apple USB Camera Adapter" allows USB Class Complaint AUDIO/MIDI hardware to connect to your iphone5/iPad  - and Apple intends to "maintain the "fog" about this opportunity for creative Audio /MIDI expansion for iPads.

The Griffin Studio Connect HD will be available soon, and this is the only one i would consider today  - since it supports 24 bit Audio I/O and MIDI I/O and has a USB Host Ports for Fishman Tripleplay .

It should be available soon.

http://store.griffintechnology.com/studioconnect-hd




and

iConnectAudio4+ (Due in a few months)
http://www.iconnectivity.com/iConnectAudio4plus



Note Both above products are delayed for release due to the requirement for each company to obtain CE EMC, and FCC Class B compliance,  as well as  Apple mFI Compliance.  Since these use a direct Lightning Cable connection and can charge the iPad, they must be  "Apple mFI Approved"
https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

IF you must charge the iPad at live gigs - this will require an AC Power Adapter and this leads to Noise and Hum.
So I bypass that and use a large Battery - my #1 Audio /MIDI Setup for iPad is here:
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 + Fishman Tripleplay with iPad on Battery Power



IPad/iPhone 24 bit Audio / MIDI + FTP and more on Battery power
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.0

Elantric

The Owners Manual for Flying Haggis IOS Amp FX sums up the best advice for what features to look for when deciding the best IOS Guitar Interface for any iPad Guitar rig:
http://www.db-audioware.com/flying-haggis-ios-user-manual


QuoteAUDIO FEEDBACK ON THE IPAD, AND HOW TO MANAGE IT
The bottom line: if your guitar interface plugs into the dock connector, you can safely ignore the KILL FEEDBACK switch and skip this section.
There are two types of guitar interface for an iPad – those that plug into the 3.5mm headset socket, and those that plug into the dock connector (30-pin or Lightning).

As a general rule, you get what you pay for. The 3.5mm style interfaces are usually cheap, and are ideal for practicing if you don't mind some background noise. The dock style interfaces usually sound far better and have decent preamps with all-important gain control, but at a cost.

However, 3.5mm interfaces all suffer from a major technical problem – crosstalk. This is when a strong signal (the audio to your headphones) "leaks" into a weaker signal (the output from your guitar pickups). When combined with a high-gain amp preset, you get uncontrollable feedback. To tackle this common problem, most iOS guitar amps have a "feedback prevention" option – in Flying Haggis, it's the KILL FEEDBACK switch under the input meter.

The principle is simple – by reversing the phase of one of the L/R output channels, the crosstalk is largely cancelled out. It's somewhat like a balanced mic cable, where +ve and -ve signals travel along the cable, cancelling out any noise picked up along the way.

However, you'll notice that with KILL FEEDBACK activated, the sound has a "hollow" feel, and you lose any stereo effects (e.g. from the Echo, Chorus or Reverb fx). This is a necessary trade-off of the feedback cancellation technique.So, ideally you want KILL FEEDBACK to be OFF if possible. Is there anything you can do to reduce the crosstalk problem, other than buying a dock-based interface? Quite a few things, as it turns out:

Use a separate amplifier or a portable headphone amp. By plugging a separate amp into the headphone socket of your guitar interface (e.g. a FiiO E06) you will drastically reduce the current flowing out, and so reduce the crosstalk.
Reduce your headphone volume. This reduces the current flowing to your headphones and in turn reduces the crosstalk.
Use high-efficiency headphones, which can produce good listening levels without drawing loads of current. Again (and you see the pattern emerging here) less current to the headphones = less crosstalk.
It's also important to note that crosstalk can vary between models of iPad and brands of interface. For example, in our own testing we found that an original iPad 2 is far more susceptible to crosstalk than a new iPad Mini Retina.

nosaintnick

#66
I know this topics been discussed before but I forget where to find it so I'll just throw it out there that anyone bummed about the inability to pass through midi from a controller attached via the dins of the VG99 to the iPad while in class compliant mode I found a simple solution. I put a usb hub in the mix (4 port Gear Head hub UH4250MAC) and a M-audio Uno.

The VG99 and the Uno go to the Hub via usb. The midi output from my FCB 1010 goes to the midi input of the Uno, Uno output to the VG99 midi in. The Hub goes to the CCK and into my 4th gen iPad. I use Midi Bridge to connect the Uno in and out together for control of the VG99. I can then assign any midi message from the FCB to whatever app parameters I need (mostly Loopy record toggling).

Anyway, I analogize if that work around has been posted before, I just had a eureka moment and wanted to share.

EDIT: I suppose with two Uno's (or just a larger midi interface) you could get the guitar to midi from the VG99 midi out and into a soft synth.

Elantric

#67
QuoteAlso, is there a portable interface better that Positive grid jam up plug that CAN charge iPad?

Line 6 SonicPort VX - allows charging the IOS device when used with the Lightning cable  and micro USB Cable connected to a +5VDC Power Source   

The Jamup Plug is junk - it requires running into the iPads  3.5mm headset input and suffer the noisy iPad Mic Pre.

Better interfaces are on the horizon
http://www.iconnectivity.com/iConnectAUDIO4plus

- and avoid all that use the Ipad 3.5mm Headset connection.

The best ones are the 24 bit USB Class Compliant Interfaces listed on top here:
http://www.wavemachinelabs.com/Support/auria-audio-interfaces

Apogee Duet ( Ipad Version) has a good mix of features : excellent audio performance  and MIDI I/O if you require iPad  charging
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet

I await the release of the Griffin StudioConnect HD  - which should hit at a lower price point
http://store.griffintechnology.com/studioconnect-hd




Myself I often run a Focusrite 2i4 on external battery power with iPad and Fishman Triplplay that provides measurable lower noise compared to anything run off AC power

Weed_

I have NI komplette audio 6, and CC kit, it works fine, but would love something small in size of iRig Pro or apogee Jam to carry with me in a pocket on Jams with iPhone. Jam-up plug really is a junk, the noise makes it useless. But the thing that is great about it is that you can charge your iphone in the same time...

Elantric

#69
I like the IK Multimedia iRig PRO - its 24 bit and supports a MIDI Input for a remote pedal board

But it does not charge the Ipad

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigpro/

Weed_

Thanks, I will probably buy that one then!
Did anyone try iTrack dock?

Elantric

It should be OK, - I ding it for lack of real 5pin DIN MIDI I/O

Weed_

it is basically the same as scarlett, just no midi in, right? So i´m guessing latency and sound quality should not be an issue.
I would use it with Keith Macmillan Softstep 2, so maybe it would be just great.
But I hate the look of ipad 4 in it + it is not really portable..

Elantric

#73
Quotet is basically the same as scarlett, just no midi in, right

Yes - Same Audio Specs as Scarlett series - but iTrack is the only one that Charges iPad  / iPhone too.

Myself - I pre-charge my Ipad before the gig, and still have 70% battery left on my ipad Air after a 3 hour gig. 

stratattack

I just purchased the IRIG Pro from Amazon (it's on sale for $99) but I have a question regarding output to studio monitors. What kind of cable would I need for output from the iPad 3.5mm headphone jack? If for instance I wanted to output the iRig Pro sound to a pair of KRK monitors, would I use the balanced TRS or XLR? Would this cable work in the KRK, even though the ends are TS cable?

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417457357&sr=8-1&keywords=trs+stereo+3.5mm

Also, Would I lose sound quality?
Thanks in advance.