Author Topic: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices  (Read 16177 times)

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Offline SuperNiCd

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2013, 07:28:30 AM »
More generic advice:

Generally speaking on MIDI adapters that have MIDI IN and OUT LEDs, you will see them light up when any MIDI communications are sent down this path, including program change messages.  It's possible you have a bum cable.  Have you said what kind of cable this is?  Is it the exact one mentioned in this thread?  Anything you connect to the iPad via a CCK must be class-compliant because there are no device drivers in iOS.  If not the one mentioned in this thread, is this a cable that someone's already said works with iOS, or does it say in the product description that it is class compliant?  They are not all created equal and not just any will work.  If the device (in your case the cable) is not class compliant, that is a problem for sure.

The other possibility if the cable is good and known to work with iOS is that the app is not configured to send MIDI to it.  In this app, is there anywhere in the settings pages where you can select the MIDI device?  You would see it present a list of attached CoreMIDI devices which will usually include something like "Network" or "Session 1", and you will also see any external devices you have connected in this list.  Not all apps have this but if they do it's important to select the device.

The only other thing I saw is that you left LSB blank in your app config.  Try putting a value in it, and see if you can get the MIDI out light to come on.  The 55 may or may not do what you want, but I'm wondering if the app doesn't send the message if one of the values is blank.  Worth trying as an experiment.

As for MIDI wrench, I'm not sure how much value it will be to you here.  It seems more geared at sending and receiving communications from an external MIDI device, and in your case the only MIDI message being sent is coming from an app.  I haven't been able to get MIDI Wrench to work in this scenario - I think MIDI Wrench has to be in the foreground.  But not sure, I haven't really used it much.

Don't give up!  :)  MIDI can be overwhelming and frustrating at first but it's well worth learning.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:11:21 PM by Elantric »
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Boss4Life

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2013, 08:34:34 AM »
Thank you so much!

I'm not sure if the cable is class compliant? So I ordered the exact cable that Elantric talked about from Meritline.com, the trouble is, it won't be here for about a week. So I will have to suffer my first show without the convenience of a MIDI controller. No one locally stocks such a cable.

Yes I have tried several different values in the LSB field. And I won't give up....Thanks for the encouragement.

Today is a new day of testing......even though my cable is possibly crapola? lol
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:11:31 PM by Elantric »

Offline SuperNiCd

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2013, 09:37:26 AM »
If you can't find documentation that says its class compliant it is probably not.

If you're really in a pinch, my local GC usually stocks iRig MIDIs, which don't require the CCK, but might require a lightning to 30 pin adapter from Apple if you have an iPad 4 or 5.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/item/default.aspx?itemno=2120613

They also typically stock the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer II.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Line-6-MIDI-Mobilizer-II-Portable-Interface-H78820-i2244813.gc

Neither of these solutions is anywhere close to $11. :)


« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:59:02 PM by Elantric »
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Offline montyrivers

Re: $11 USB to MIDI I/O Cable from Meritline.com
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2013, 03:54:36 PM »
I can confirm that the midi sport uno works as an apple cck midi device at least on my mini with lightning to usb.  It is about 40 bucks.

Offline Boss4Life

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2013, 05:36:15 PM »
Thanks montyrivers that's good to know!

>SuperNiCd.......Thanks again...I will be okay for this show but hopefully I will get the USB/MIDI cable I ordered by black Friday so I can see if the interface will work? I tried to work on it today, with the other cable and still had no luck. :'(
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:58:38 PM by Elantric »

Offline Elantric

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2014, 12:26:15 PM »
Lately I'm using the Roland UM-ONE MK2
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1249

Offline GuitarBuilder

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2014, 02:44:26 PM »
I've had good luck with the M-Audio Uno:



PS - Make sure you get the Uno, not the Sport version!

Offline Toby Krebs

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2014, 12:58:14 AM »
I've had good luck with the M-Audio Uno:

(Image removed from quote.)

PS - Make sure you get the Uno, not the Sport version!

My Uno is numero uno to me! Working great with camera kit and Midi Solutions midi thru box to send program change to GR55/Boss GT10 at the same time using SLM and IPad. Love IT!

Offline concordal

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2015, 04:28:57 PM »
Lately I'm using the Roland UM-ONE MK2

Success here with the UM-ONE as well
.  For those that are new to this cable, be aware that it has a switch to be set for either iPad connection or computer connection






I've also had good success with the E-MU Xmidi 1x1 Tab


http://www.amazon.com/CREATIVE-EMU-XMIDI-MIDI-Interface/dp/B000JLU26W


Offline Elantric

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2015, 02:10:34 PM »
Quote
Mac OS CoreMIDI “bug”
There is an interesting (potential) bug in CoreMIDI on Mac OS that can lead to some connectivity
issues — not just with SoftStep, but with any class-compliant MIDI device.
Upon connecting the SoftStep (or any class-compliant MIDI device) for the first time since
powering up the computer, the SoftStep will make a proper connection to the computer but will
not refresh/update the MIDI device list.
The effect of this is that any audio/MIDI applications that are already open (like the SoftStep
editors, Ableton, Logic, etc.) will not detect the SoftStep, even though it’s properly connected to
the computer. The only way to get the MIDI device list to refresh is to unplug then reconnect the
controller, or to manually refresh the MIDI devices by rescanning MIDI in the Audio MIDI Setup
application (located in /Applications/Utilities).
What’s interesting is that this behavior does not occur if it is the first time the controller has ever
been connected to the computer. It seems that when the MIDI device is created in Audio MIDI
Setup the device list gets refreshed, but if the device already exists in Audio MIDI Setup the list
does not refresh.
Whether or not this behavior is intentional and expected, it is something to be aware of. We have
noticed it on Mac OS 10.6 through 10.9. The one thing to do to minimize the chances of running
into this “bug” is...

After powering up the computer, always connect the SoftStep to the computer before opening
any applications.
“Okay, so how do I fix it if this does happen?” Well, if you do run into this problem, there are a
number of ways to fix it:
• Unplug the SoftStep and plug it back in.
• Open Audio MIDI Setup and click the “Rescan MIDI” button in the MIDI window.
• Open another audio/MIDI application.
All three of the above methods refresh the MIDI device list, which should lead to proper “in-app”
connections.


Quote
Windows Class-Compliant Device Limitation
Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 do not allow a class-compliant MIDI
device to be connected to more than a single application at a time. As a class-compliant MIDI
controller, this applies to the SoftStep.
The result of this is that if you have two or more audio/MIDI applications open at the same time
(the Advanced Editor and Ableton Live, for example), only one of them will be able to connect to
the SoftStep. Because of this it is highly recommended to never edit the SoftStep with other audio
applications open — it could lead to connectivity issues, and a very confusing, frustrating
experience.
This does not apply solely to KMI products, this will have an effect with every class-compliant MIDI
device.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 02:12:13 PM by Elantric »

Offline Vade

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2015, 03:59:42 PM »
@"Windows Class-Compliant Device Limitation
Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 do not allow a class-compliant MIDI
device to be connected to more than a single application at a time. As a class-compliant MIDI
controller, this applies to the SoftStep.
The result of this is that if you have two or more audio/MIDI applications open at the same time
(the Advanced Editor and Ableton Live, for example), only one of them will be able to connect to
the SoftStep. Because of this it is highly recommended to never edit the SoftStep with other audio
applications open — it could lead to connectivity issues, and a very confusing, frustrating
experience."




This is interesting as I have the Advanced Editor open at the same time as Sonar Platinum quite often and never having heard this warning I've been editing via the Advanced Editor while both apps were running with no noticeable issues arising. I'm using the Advanced Editor in Hosted mode as advised on page 52 of the SoftStep manual...

"Windows Users
The Windows version of the Advanced Editor does not come with a built-in virtual MIDI port
— users will have to download and install a third-party MIDI bus of their choice.
KMI recommends using MIDI Yoke (http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm) or LoopBe (http://
www.nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html). Once installed, “Out to MIDI Yoke: [1-8]” or
“LoopBe” (depending on which one was installed) will automatically appear in the Output Port  drop-down in the modlines."

I've also been using Imitone for mic to midi input, had it open at the same time as the Advanced Editor and Sonar, and had my FTP feeding into Sonar as well; editing Imitone seemed not to produce any issues in this Windows 8.1 environment.

http://imitone.com/

So perhaps I've just been lucky? Or perhaps I'm creating a backlog of midi issues that will rise up and bite me one of these nights? It sounds like the "best practices" approach might be to edit in isolation even though I've not noticed any issues to date. Thanks for sharing in any case.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 04:08:26 PM by Vade »
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Offline Elantric

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2015, 04:07:13 PM »
Its been 15 years since I last owned a copy of Cakewalk Sonar, but I confirm all the issues KMI warns of above in my own use with USB Audio / MIDI Interfaces on Windows. 

Offline Vade

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2015, 04:10:56 PM »
Fair enough and thanks for the warning. Editing in isolation it is.

Edit:

"Applications that use the new midi API can share devices. Requires code change in apps, though.

Pete"

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/975864-windows-10-thread-post-your-expectations-here-20.html#post11094471

Looks like Windows 10 will offer multiple midi improvements according to Gearslutz Psychlist1972; a Microsoft employee. Not sure how we'll know if a developer is using the new API's though.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 04:38:05 PM by Vade »
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Offline Elantric

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2015, 04:25:16 PM »
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15310.msg113146#msg113146
Gumtown wrote>

Quote
Avoid this type USB MIDI Cable


Quote
and it's blue variant for anything more than patch changes or midi note sending.



Agreed!


There is much "dis-information" on the web regarding this make. model Chinese USB MIDI cable 

Here is a teardown internal view

http://shiftmore.blogspot.com/2010/01/quick-and-dirty-arduino-midi-over-usb.html



http://shiftmore.blogspot.com/2010/01/quick-and-dirty-arduino-midi-over-usb.html

Observe the "missing U1 opto-isolator IC on the internal PCB most variants of this type USB> MIDI Cable




No Optoisolator on this cheap USB MIDi interface above means no galvanic Ground isolation, so it will introduce Ground Loop Noise and  / or High Frequency hash noise from your Computer's Switching Power supply into your audio.
It also suffers from sluggish MIDI data rise  / fall times, and many MIDI DATA Errors . This USB MIDI Cable has been responsible for "bricking" $$$$ more music gear during MIDI SYSEX firmware updates over MIDI  than any other device.

Dont let me catch you using this piece of  %^$#  - If see one in use anywhere, I inform the owner to recycle it promptly, and find a suitable replacement USB MIDI cable from the recommended types above.   


--

Here is a better reference MIDI Interface design

http://rpc.gehennom.org/2013/03/usb-midi-interface/
 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 10:42:33 AM by Elantric »

Offline gumtown

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2015, 04:41:51 PM »
It was only 2 days ago I cracked open a spare one of those to see if the opto could be changed for a better one.
I previously had the V1 model (with opto) which did (sort of) work at sysx transfer on smaller midi devices, but it was sacrificed for a midi/DMX foot pedal project.
I got the newer improved V2 model of the 'el Cheepo' eBay USB/Midi device.
I quickly found it functioned worse than the old V1 model, so for the last few months it was thrown in the scrap pile things to look at one day.

Then the other day, while the thought of purchasing some opto isolators for midi projects was on my mind, I opened it up,
and found that issue right away, no opto isolator, which is particulary bad for the midi equipment's midi out port while connected via USB to a computer, no electrical isolation, and the potential to blow your midi equipment midi port or CPU.
You know when you plug that USB printer into your computer and sometimes there is that little spark on the outer shield as the connector first makes contact, opto isolators on midi device adapters stop that from entering sensitive internal electronics of your precious gear.

So Don't use these on midi equipment that you value !!!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 04:13:58 PM by gumtown »
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Offline Headless68

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2015, 06:02:18 AM »
...something else for the bin then :-)

Offline Elantric

« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 04:02:11 PM by Elantric »

Offline snhirsch

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2017, 08:33:12 PM »
That MidiPlus box is certainly the right price.  Does it have any routing or filtering options?

Offline Elantric

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2017, 08:36:20 PM »
Quote
That MidiPlus box is certainly the right price.  Does it have any routing or filtering options?
None I know - its just a cheap china 32 channel I/O MIDI interface
Best to read review
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WU6F4M6/ref=pd_luc_rh_mrairec_01_01_t_img_lh?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&dpSrc=huc&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpID=41dnr3%2BfGdL
Quote
I have to admit that I'm still quite new to all things MIDI, and it was a constant frustration to me that so many of the inexpensive MIDI controllers are USB-only. So, if you have an older MIDI keyboard (with the 5-pin DIN round connection) or a piece of hardware that only accepts old-school MIDI connections (including the popular Korg Volca series), your options become limited.

The midiplus Tbox 2x2 is a sturdy metal box approximately 3.75" x 2.5" x 1.5" in size. It rests on rubber feet and is built like a tank. It has two MIDI In/Out connections (as seen in the picture) for a total of 32 MIDI channels. But to be honest, I only wanted it for the most basic MIDI functions, such as hooking up a keyboard to a computer DAW, or sending MIDI sequencer data to a Korg Volca. The Tbox could not be more beginner-friendly. There's no drivers to install or anything to do other than plug it into the USB jack. My Windows 10 computer instantly recognized it and any MIDI-supporting program listed it as an input or output.

Even better, the Tbox 2x2 is a class-compliant (and USB-powered) MIDI device. This allows it to be plugged into a PC, Mac, and even iOS. Plug a 5-pin MIDI keyboard into the Tbox, and then run the USB output of the Tbox into a Camera Connection Kit into the Lightning jack of your iDevice - it worked instantly and with no discernible latency. There are cheap Chinese cables you can try for less than $10, and name brands sold at Guitar Center and elsewhere for $30 to $40. I've seen spotty reviews of those, and think that this is a much better option. It just works.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 08:43:01 PM by Elantric »

Offline snhirsch

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2017, 08:03:11 PM »
Just a quick word of warning about the MidiPlus TBox 2x2 device.  It is definitely a class-compliant interface, however it does not properly deal with large sysex messages.  I discovered this when trying to program my Behringer FCB-1010 w/ Uno Chip using the Uno software on Windows 7.  It took about a half dozen attempts to get the device to read properly and I never was able to send back the program without experiencing communication errors. 

The MidiSport 1x1 passes this test with flying colors.

Offline stevesilk51

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2017, 09:13:44 AM »
Just a quick word of warning about the MidiPlus TBox 2x2 device.  It is definitely a class-compliant interface, however it does not properly deal with large sysex messages.  I discovered this when trying to program my Behringer FCB-1010 w/ Uno Chip using the Uno software on Windows 7.  It took about a half dozen attempts to get the device to read properly and I never was able to send back the program without experiencing communication errors. 

The MidiSport 1x1 passes this test with flying colors.

I have an old MIDIsport 2x4 . Would this be a suitable option?

Offline admsustainiac

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2017, 09:16:00 AM »
I have an old MIDIsport 2x4 . Would this be a suitable option?

Try it and see if it's plug and play and report back if it works

Offline stevesilk51

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2017, 04:27:39 AM »

Here's the Amazon UK link for USB adapter that does not work well)

[/quote]

Ok guys, as I've previously mentioned my knowledge of Midi and midi over usb is limited but I have discovered something using the above device that is proving to be partially useful for me, but it may be stating the obvious to those with superior skills in these areas.  I also realise that Gumtown does not recommend these particular midi-usb cables, but seems to work well for me, atm.

At this point it may be useful to describe my hardware/software scenario:

Katana 100 1x12
RFX Midibuddy controller
The Chord Midi to USB cable mentioned above.(also have a Midisport 2 into 4 that would probably work too.)

Katana Patch Loader
Katana FXFloorboard

Ok, now I've found that if I use the Katana Patch Loader with the MidiBuddy controller and the Chord cable I can change patches fine.

Out of interest I also ran the Katana FxFloorboard at the same time.

When I change patches nothing visually happens on the GUI of FxFloorboard but I can manually control the loaded patch using FxFloorboard.

The upshot  for me is, although probably not that great a deal for many of you, I can sort of manipulate the patches loaded using my midi foot controller in FxFloorboard. (Obviously all done sitting at my PC)

I'm sure Colin (Gumtown) knows this already but it got me thinking : is this too far away from being able to select the midi IN in the FxFloorboard to a foot controller of our choice(instead of Katana IN, Katana OUT), or am I way off with my hopes  :-\,  OR, have I missed a reason why this cannot happen in an earlier post?

EDIT: Sorry admin, although I do mention the "Chord" Cable working well for me, this would possibly be best moved to the Katana FxFloorboard and/ or Katana Patch loader thread(s)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 08:14:11 AM by Elantric »

Offline gumtown

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2017, 04:50:34 AM »
A few ideas are 'up in the air' at the moment with both FxFloorBoard and PatchLoader.
Currently working on adding assigns to both, 8 global and 8 patch, giving at total of 16 to use at once.

FxFloorBoard needs a full duplex connection with the Katana to read patch and system data from the Katana,
and to send patch and parameter data to the Katana.
The editor does not auto update the GUI from Katana changes, data has to be requested by the editor to the Katana.

An idea for FxFloorboard is to have a second midi input device, such as a foot controller, to enable cc# control and patch change, using these pending assigns.

Those cheap USB-Midi devices are capable of sending data (most of the time), but have problems receiving data any thing larger than a simple program change or cc#.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Offline stevesilk51

Re: USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2017, 05:43:33 AM »
A few ideas are 'up in the air' at the moment with both FxFloorBoard and PatchLoader.
Currently working on adding assigns to both, 8 global and 8 patch, giving at total of 16 to use at once.

FxFloorBoard needs a full duplex connection with the Katana to read patch and system data from the Katana,
and to send patch and parameter data to the Katana.
The editor does not auto update the GUI from Katana changes, data has to be requested by the editor to the Katana.

An idea for FxFloorboard is to have a second midi input device, such as a foot controller, to enable cc# control and patch change, using these pending assigns.

Those cheap USB-Midi devices are capable of sending data (most of the time), but have problems receiving data any thing larger than a simple program change or cc#.

Thanks for the quick reply Colin.

Know you are working on assigns, appreciated, thanks.

And have tried my MidiSport 2x4 which also works well and I agree it will be the best option

Steve

 

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