Nexus 7

Started by Paresh, February 23, 2013, 02:48:10 PM

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Paresh

Hi guys - way off topic...I see that the ipad is the only tablet ever mentioned in the forum posts. Anyone use the Nexus 7 or 10? That's what I'm thinking of getting...for general use more than recording. i like the idea of open source. Thanks.
paresh

Smash

from what I've read the Nexus 10 is supposed to be a bit of an ipad killer. Music apps have traditionally suffered on Android devices because a lot of them have poor latency whereas Apple nailed it from the off.

Elantric

#2
QuoteMusic apps have traditionally suffered on Android devices because a lot of them have poor latency whereas Apple nailed it from the off.
THIS!

I own several current examples of both Android 4.1.2, and IOS 5 and many of the same audio apps that are "cross -platform"

In regards to Mobile Audio, Apple wins by a mile, thanks to low latency Core Audio built into Apple IOS.

On my iPad Mini I can perform with IOS virtual instruments, and get 5 to 10 milliseconds response time.

On my Android with 4.1.2 Jelly Bean OS (Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with 2GB Ram, 16GB NAND Flash memory) same virtual instruments run with 45 - 255 milliseconds latency.

I love my Android devices, but any iPad or iPhone or iPod Touch will deliver far more professional results for pro audio.   

But ask me again in 6 months.

This new Galaxy Note 8 look nice
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/samsung-takes-apple-big-ger-time-galaxy-note-224004262.html

tekrytor

#3
I'm a GooIgle guy. Nexus 4 and Nexus 7, both running 4.2.2, soon a Nexus 10. Apple sucks. Sorry. Just my opinion as an open source fan too. I know they have some cool apps. But there are also many other reasons to own a device and OS. And there are many Apple fans in the music biz, so careful waving your Android freak flag. Don't fart around with the non Nexus devices though. They do NOT update to the latest versions of Android. I record SOS with 0 latency using Audio-Evolution.com's USB Audio Recorder Pro app with a Lexicon alpha USB interface via OTG USB into my Nexus 7. I'm now shopping for a multi track USB interface to use with it. I love how small my rig is getting thanks to Android. IMO, Apple iPads are simply a fashion statement, a fad that will pass, like AOL, once people wake up to the vast other possibilities lying outside the box. Ubuntu now runs on the Nexus and other Android platforms! That will never happen on Apple products. The Nexus devices have higher pixel density (resolution) displays than iPads. I'm waiting for late April to get my Nexus 10 because the next gen will come out then with even higher resolution displays, faster processors, and more memory for the same or less money. But each to their own own, some users prefer to make a fashion statement and some actually get better results from one or the other. Some other great Android apps:
- Chordinator
- Songbook
- Button Accordion
- Audio-Evolution
- SunVox
- Caustic
- Leon
- USB Audio Recorder Pro
- Pocketband
- iReal b
- Hexiano
- Retractable
- Bristol Synths (15 vintage)
- Audioid
- EasyBand
- Electrum
- Reloop
- Touch OSC
- GRAND Piano Pro (w/midi I/O)
- Opus
- etc.

It only gets better. For the money, you cannot do better than the Nexus 7 or 10, or any of the Nexus devices.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

musicman65

You go Tekryter! Couldn't have expressed my sentiments any better.

Galaxy Nexus 4.2.1 Franco kernal OC'd to 1.8Ghz. It's 15 months old and surpasses an Iphone5 in every spec except audio latency...that fix is coming soon!

bd

Elantric

#5
QuoteNexus 7 or 10, or any of the Nexus devices.

If only the Nexus devices had a method to expand the internal memory, no micro SD card slot means less interest here. I can fill all internal memory on any of my mobile devices simply shooting an afternoon of Hi Def Video with the internal camera.  None of the Nexus devices hold my interest, same with HTC One , due to the lack of internal memory expansion. They are designed to force users to use the Cloud for all storage needs - with monthly expense. Add  AT&T loves when I go over my 4GB monthly data cap.     

Add the useful life for ANY of these mobile devices is about 2 years before they are obsolete, due to latest greatest apps you want to run requiring the latest hardware to run. All my friends with first gen iPads wish they would have waited 9 months for the faster iPad 2, since many of todays apps do not run well on 1st gen hardware.

I use the best tech available for my needs.  Its been 4 months since I upgraded my iPhone 4 to a Galaxy Note 2.  Since my eyes are not what they used to be, the larger Note 2 screen allows me to use the phone and all its features without eyeglasses, and keeps me employable. 

     

Paresh

Awesome! I love the collective minds of this list.
paresh

Smash

Quote from: Elantric on February 26, 2013, 12:39:48 PM

This new Galaxy Note 8 look nice
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/samsung-takes-apple-big-ger-time-galaxy-note-224004262.html


Sweet Jesus is that a phone??!!! When I first got the Note people use to take the mickey by picking up the PC LCD monitors, holding them to their heads and saying "Hello?  Hello?" Bastards, lol!  ;D

tekrytor

#8
Internal memory has always been a concern of mine too. I like to have access to my gigs of music files, take lots of photos and videos, etc. But I've become a cloud adopter and now just upload my photos to a private cloud space that I can share as I please. Same for about 8g of music files. I use a T-Mobile plan with unlimited data plan and I have Wi-Fi most places I go, so I don't really have the need for massive internal storage. Especially with all the free cloud space offers these days, like Box's free 50gb, etc. I've got around 100gb free and use ZeroPC's Cloud Zero app to manage everything, from Google Drive, Docs, Picassa, DropBox, Box, FaceButt :), YouTube, SoundCloud, etc. It's actually easier than managing all my physical memory devices because I don't have to remember where I put them and I can share the data across multiple devices without worrying about which has the latest version of files.

I have similar age related vision issues to Elantric and found out that there are some cool "Accessability" settings in Android to scale text across all apps and to set zoom settings. Jelly Been also has a triple tap option that will instantly zoom where you tap for quick visual aid.

I'm really looking forward to running Ubuntu on Nexus 10 so I can run Gumtown's GR-55 Floorboard Editor on it live. Then it gets really interesting. Android is just getting its wings IMO, finally cut its teeth with Jelly Bean. V5, Key Lime Pie, should bring better audio latency internally for capable devices, which are few to date, like the better Samsung Galaxies. It's a good time to switch camps if you've been considering a change. But wait till April for the next gen Nexus devices or there will be buyer's remorse in May. :(
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Elantric

#9
I have had my Android Galaxy Note2 for 4 months, and here is what I have found.

* Just like the Apple world, prior app purchases on the Google Play Store can be installed for free on the multiple devices you own,  without need to repurchase.

Ive installed these apps on the stock AT&T Galaxy Note2 - No Rooting, No Custom ROMs - Stock AT&T Note2 running Android 4.1.2


RT Root Explorer

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedsoftware.rootexplorer&hl=en

Its a File manager - Works great to lift the veil and know where all your files are.
(principal reason I moved to Android from iPhone)

Adobe Flash
Latest Adobe Flash Player (As of October 24, 2012): Adobe Flash Player v11.1.115.20, http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/installers/archive/android/11.1.115.20/install_flash_player_ics.apk



Rec Forge Pro

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dje073.android.audiorecorder&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImRqZTA3My5hbmRyb2lkLmF1ZGlvcmVjb3JkZXIiXQ..

Makes great Stereo recordings using the built in Dual mics on the Note2 of my band rehearsals -fabulous!



Stroboscopic Tuner

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.adamfoster.android.strobe&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm5ldC5hZGFtZm9zdGVyLmFuZHJvaWQuc3Ryb2JlIl0.
-intonate your guitars

SHAZAM
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.shazam.android&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5zaGF6YW0uYW5kcm9pZCJd

Used to use SoundHound on IOS, but the Android version of Shazam is better intgrated with Amazon (as an alternative to iTunes) for providing a path to buy the tunes you hear. it can also take old TV dialog and tell you what show, episode, year its from.




WunderRadio
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wunderground.android.wunderradio&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS53dW5kZXJncm91bmQuYW5kcm9pZC53dW5kZXJyYWRpbyJd

Any radio, including live local scanners and

Tune-In Radio Pro


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=radiotime.player&hl=en


Audio Evolution Mobile

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.aemobile&hl=en
Make your own songs

TouchOSC

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.hexler.touchosc&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm5ldC5oZXhsZXIudG91Y2hvc2MiXQ..
Control your other Pro MI Gear

iCircuit

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kruegersystems.circuitdroid&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5rcnVlZ2Vyc3lzdGVtcy5jaXJjdWl0ZHJvaWQiXQ..
Design the Future


SCRIBD Reader
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.scribd.app.reader0&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5zY3JpYmQuYXBwLnJlYWRlcjAiXQ..
Millions of documents and books, at your fingertips.

STICHER

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stitcher.app&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5zdGl0Y2hlci5hcHAiXQ..
Listen to over 10,000 radio shows, live stations, and podcasts on demand.




What are your Favorite Android Apps ?

musicman65

Elantric,

ya gotta root it! There are lots of benefits...in fact RootExplorer is designed for rooted phones.

My list:

LiveBPM.....detects tempo of live and recorded music and trends it live. Great for showing the band how the speed up! End of argument!

Dish Anywhere...watch my home satellite and dvr recordings streamed from my home to mobile, desktop, anywhere.

CamScanner.....camera to pdf scanner app. I use to submit paper docs, and business reports electronically from anywhere.

DaTuner Lite.....nice tuner, works well, digital and analog display, very accurate.

FrequencSee....Realtime audio specrum graph

Droidwall.....root users only, allow, deny network access for all apps and services. Separate selection for cell and wifi per app.

ES File Explorer......the king of all File Managers. Has SMB (Windows File Sharing) client and allows read/write to computers via WiFi. AMUST HAVE. Also supports nearly every cloud file storage service seamlessly.

OfficeSuite Pro.....MSOffice compatible app for Word, Excel, Powerpount. Really nice spreadsheet.

Rainy Days......must have real-time doppler radar app. Uses Google Maps and GPS to show weather. Has kept my dry on many motorcycle trips!

Remote RDP.....remotely connect any Remote Desktop or Windows Terminal Server. It allows the use of Windows apps "on my phone" (ok, via remote control) It connects in seconds and is fast and rock solid. I take my corporate business computer access in my pocket!

PowerAmp....awesome music player. Nice hi-res eq.

AndFTP....full FTP client to manage files on a webserver. I maintain a website from my phone with this and a text editor.

Jota+.....one of only a few full featured text editors that can open large files. Most truncate at 65k...Jota+ keeps going.

Samba Filesharing.....root users only. Enables Windows File Sharing (SMB) server on your phone. Your phone appears in Network Browsing on your pc. Has security. Great when on your pc and you want to move files back and forth. Very fast. Also use with ES File Explorer as SMB client to copy Android to Android via WiFi.

Titanium Backup....root user essential app for backing up/restoring/managing apps. Handy when flashing new ROMs and restoring apps after wiping your phone. I've never lost an app setting or saved password using this.

I use a Win8 tablet pc for DAW stuff so I don't have many audio apps to recommend.

bd








Elantric

Quoteya gotta root it! There are lots of benefits...in fact RootExplorer is designed for rooted phones.

I have rooted my Archos 80 G9, but Ive been holding off on rooting my Note2 - AT&T just supplied their 2nd update over the Air Android update to address the Samsung Exynos4 CPU bug last week
http://phandroid.com/2013/02/18/att-galaxy-note-2-update/

http://mobilephonecelluler.blogspot.com/2012/12/samsung-issues-statement-on-exynos-4.html

But I'm very happy with TouchWiz and the Note 2's Pen Input. I have not felt the need to Root, and definitely will not replace the ROM with a different one that makes bulk of my Note 2 hardware (Pen Input, NFC, CSR Apt-X Bluetooth stack, wireless charging etc)  possibly go dead, or buggy.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?s=bfce6b658b498f96510defddb33d81e9&f=1870

musicman65

#12
After your Note 2 has some time to settle in with the Devs, the risk of a ROM not working as well as stock is minimal. The ROM I run is way better than stock with much improved battery life. As a Nexus user, my phone was meant to be rooted and flashed with all the tools available straight from Google. :)

My wife's S3 is rooted so she can provide a wifi hotspot on her unlimited Verizon plan. Our daughter uses her android tablet on WiFi in the car that way.

Since your phone is a unique device with pen input, the choice of ROMs may be more limited but there WILL be TouchWiz based versions if not already....but rooting doesn't require you to give up your stock ROM. You can un-root and update anytime typically. Your choice.

The beauty is that you have options....and staying stock is a good one. Enjoy!

bd



polaris20

It'll be refreshing when someone can actually make a post saying why they like something without saying the competing product sucks.

I like my iPhone, my iPad, and my Mac. But I like my Nexus7 and Windows 7 and 8 PC's too. They're all good at different things.

Paresh

paresh

musicman65

Class Compliant USB audio input for Android. Anyone try it?

http://www.gizmag.com/extream-app-usb-audio-android/25907/

bd

Elantric

#16
Sure - works "ok" not fantastic  - for me on Samsung Galaxy Note 2 , but still has over 70 ms latency for me anyway.

I get under 12ms on my iPad.

I mention this here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8054.msg57627#msg57627
Quote(btw the best low latency audio on Android currently is the result of
  eXtream Software Development, and "USB Audio Recorder" and Audio Evolution Mobile DAW.

www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/
http://www.extreamsd.com

musicman65

Thanks. I missed your post somehow. It looks like some the kernel devs are using the hooks already in 4.2.2 to support USB audio. It is still unclear (to me) what this entails. Those guys usually test and support features that get rolled into stock kernels later.

bd



Elantric

Low Latency audio on Android is a moving target, not every manufacturer understand or cares about Android Music content creators.

Google only recently appears to hold interest for making low latency audio part of a future Android spec. it should be better across the board in the Android world in 2014

   

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/07/02/nexus-7-review/

QuoteJoshua Topolsky, of The Verge, reviews the Google Nexus 7 – a new 7-inch tablet.

The Nexus 7 is a flagship device for Google's Android operating system. It runs the latest version of Android, 4.1 'Jelly Bean', and features nicely designed hardware for the device's $200 price point.

And it sounds like Google, at least on its own branded devices, is addressing Android's audio latency problem:

Audio latency on the Galaxy Nexus, running on Jelly bean, has been reduced from 100ms to 12ms. But, they're still not satisfied as they want to reduce it to below 10ms. So it looks like some of those iOS music apps which are heavily reliant on low audio latency targets may finally be coming to Android.

Based on early reports, though, upgrading older devices to the latest Android OS won't deliver this level of audio performance.

"Google?s Nexus 7 isn?t just an excellent tablet for $200. It?s an excellent tablet, period," notes Topolsky. "It?s the first Android tablet that I can confidently recommend."

If the Android 4.1 audio improvements pan out, the Google Nexus 7 tablet could be the first Android tablet that offers a viable alternative as a tablet music platform to iOS and the iPad. Apple's iOS platform still offers many advantages – including MIDI support, a mature hardware ecosystem and a more profitable app store for developers. But the Nexus 7 could help make cheap tablets viable music tools and drive Apple to continue innovating with the iPad.

The Google Nexus 7 tablet is expected to ship in 2-3 weeks, priced at $199 for the 8GB version & $249 for the 16GB version.

Update: Based on developer feedback on the Nexus 7, audio latency is still a problem:

"I have developed 4 music apps for IOS. I have today ported them over and they all still have audio latency problems.

I'm not saying that its totally impossible as there may just be a way to get round it but I'm sharing 4 developers experience with the Nexus 7 today and tested 5 musical apps that cannot perform well enough. The audio latency is still behind the iPhone 3G"

musicman65

I'm not as concerned about latancy since all I want to do is record live 2 track stereo as a convenient alternative to setting up a DAW. I could use my Zoom H2 for that too.

But I suspect USB audio and lower latency will be mfg supported at some point.

bd

Elantric

#20
QuoteI'm not as concerned about latency since all I want to do is record live 2 track stereo as a convenient alternative

Try RecForgePro (works with external stereo Bluetooth Microphones)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dje073.android.audiorecorder&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImRqZTA3My5hbmRyb2lkLmF1ZGlvcmVjb3JkZXIiXQ..


or if you own a USB Class Compliant device
USB Audio Recorder Pro

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro&feature=more_from_developer#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEwMiwiY29tLmV4dHJlYW1zZC51c2JhdWRpb3JlY29yZGVycHJvIl0.

musicman65

Thanks. I have a Tascam 144 MKII that may work. My live mixer has a USB port that streams audio too. With any luck, the mixer is class compliant...its packed up in our trailer so I'll try it on the next gig.

bd

Elantric


A link to a good reference on Android Low Latency Audio via USB 

By eXtreme-Audio and USB Audio Recorder PRO app.

http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/

Elantric

#23
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/05/why-mobile-low-latency-is-hard-explained-by-google-galaxy-nexus-still-android-of-choice/#more-29322
May 28 2013
Why Mobile Low-Latency is Hard, Explained by Google; Galaxy Nexus Still Musicians' Android of Choice

by Peter Kirn
Samsung Galaxy Nexus remains the phone you want if you're interested in music and audio on Android. Photo (CC-BY-SA) TAKAPPRS (TAKA@P.P.R.S).

Samsung Galaxy Nexus remains the phone you want if you're interested in music and audio on Android. Photo (CC-BY-SA) TAKAPPRS (TAKA@P.P.R.S).

Saying your device isn't as responsive to sound as you'd want is a bit like saying you're feeling sick to your stomach. The symptom is easy to describe, and everyone would agree it's not a desirable state. But the fix can be rather complex.

And when it comes to engineers who care about music and sound, experiencing latency – or its equally evil mirror cousin, crackles-and-pops – will make you sick to your stomach.

Google I believe is deserving of some criticism over this issue. Years of subsequent updates saw the company largely silent or unresponsive about critical audio issues. It took some time before even basic APIs were reliable and on par with other platforms. At the same time, I don't believe even all developers – let alone users – appreciate the challenges of making music-quality low latency performance work. There's no silver bullet: any number of issues with drivers and firmware and battery management can cause things to go wrong, and only a delicate combination of ingredients will make it go right. Indeed, that's part of why Apple deserves some credit. Being the company making both hardware and software is a big boon, no question, but even that is no guarantee you'll get results.

One year ago now, we first saw signs that Android would see higher performance audio. This included some general improvements for all newer devices, which my friend Peter Brinkmann quickly baked into the open source libpd library. Low latency audio was promised initially for the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, as I reported, as well, in June.

At this year's Google I/O, we finally get a presentation from people who really understand the issues involved and explain in atypically-candid detail how you go about solving them.

If you care about this, too, you owe it to yourself to sit through the whole video, as there's a whole lot of technical detail here. It's also worth noting that some of the things you think might fix audio actually don't. Sure, it's easy for developers to gripe that a platform doesn't magically give them low latency audio, particularly if they're familiar with desktop Linux. But on mobile platforms, a number of variables come into play. Some of the obvious fixes can then conflict with battery life, or simply don't work.

The full video, featuring Glenn Kasten, Ian Ni-Lewis, and Raph Levien:

It's a pleasure to see engineers who really get this stuff talk about this rather than higher-level managers; this is the sort of conversation I have over beers with people who know what they're doing far more than I do.

A key slide:

android_todo

The left-hand column, what the Android team needs to do, is summed up in two areas. One is improvements to the platform, and the other has to do with working with hardware partners, whose drivers and hardware and well-meaning battery conversation features and the like are often the source of problems. Most tellingly, while it's long overdue, it's good to know that Google is at last adding proper APIs for configuring audio (augh), and being trying more adventurous paths to lower latency as have been found more commonly on desktop systems.

But developers can make headway, too. As evidenced by the availability of software like FL Studio showing up on Android, programming techniques and the use of OpenSL can mean better performance on the platform, as well.

I've endorsed it before, but even if you don't intend to use the free libpd library, you can check out the repository for the latest best-practices code for you to copy and paste in your own Android audio apps:

github.com/libpd

Check out the OpenSL branch.

So, which Android should you get (if any)?

This time last year, we heard about low latency support for specific devices on Android. How are they doing?

Well, frankly, not great. There are three devices that support the low latency profile, up from one device at Google I/O last year:

1. Galaxy Nexus (Samsung)
2. Nexus 4 (LG)
3. Nexus 10 (Samsung)

Certainly, I would only recommend these three Android devices to anyone interested in music or development. Other Android gadgets will perform more poorly with audio latency, including popular devices like the Galaxy S series. You'll also want a Nexus device in order to have unfettered access to OS updates from Google – useful to developers, but also to anyone wanting to keep pace with improvements.

And of these three, the Galaxy Nexus remains the best choice. Sources tell CDM that the Nexus 4 and Nexus 10 don't perform as well as the original Galaxy Nexus because of battery conservation concerns.

I still strongly recommend iOS for developers and end users, however. For now, Android can't match app selection, API quality, availability of MIDI support and wired connections to instruments, or audio performance and flexibility available on iOS.

That said, a Galaxy Nexus could be a great buy for people willing to tinker a bit. Oh, yeah, and there's the fact that you can get it unlocked for a fraction of the price of a new iPhone.

CDM will have more on these issues over the summer, so stay tuned.

Developers, details from this presentation:
https://code.google.com/p/high-performance-audio/

Paresh

The new Nexus 7 is due to be released any time now & I'm going to get one. Can anyone recommend some moderately priced (under $50) ear buds/portable headphones to use with it? ... good sound & noise isolation wd be nice too. Thanks!!
paresh