MadCatz / Fender Mustang Rock Band 3 controller

Started by Elantric, July 14, 2011, 05:15:27 PM

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Elantric

Owners Manual
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5924.0;attach=16299

Just an FYI - Newegg is blowing out the Fender Mustang Rockband  / MIDI Controller for $87 - its the one with the switches in the  fretboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16879216193&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=404255&SID=205292

The Rock Band 3 Wireless Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller is the perfect bridge between music gameplay and the thrill of playing a real guitar. Delivering a new experience to music gaming, the 17-fret touch-sensitive neck with six buttons per fret provides a total of 102 active finger positions and six low-latency strings for actual note strumming. The Rock Band 3 Wireless Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller is fully compatible with both standard and Pro modes.

Empowering you to rock outside the realm of videogames, the MIDI output connector provides compatibility with MIDI software sequencers and hardware devices, while standard console-specific gaming controller buttons deliver seamless console integration. With an official Fender Mustang body, custom Guitar Strap, right- or left-handed gameplay, plus Overdrive Stomp Box support.

Features

• All-new Wireless Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller for Rock Band 3
• Plays Rock Band 3 Guitar and Bass parts
• Play real chords and melodies with new Rock Band Pro mode
• 17-fret touch-sensitive neck with 6 buttons per fret provides 102 active finger positions
• 6 low-latency strings for authentic note strumming
• Advanced tilt sensor for Overdrive activation
• Use as MIDI Guitar Controller when not playing Rock Band (compatible with most MIDI sequencers)
• Right- or left-handed gameplay
• Supports Overdrive Stomp Box

Includes:
• Guitar Strap
• 3 AA Batteries
• Guitar Picks


Article about this guitar is here:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/10/rock-band-3-fender-mustang-pro-midi/#more-14362





"A toy controller – in a good way. The Mustang Pro guitar controller for Rock Band 3 is equipped with a full MIDI implementation and standard 5-pin port to connect to synths and computers.

Since the very first Guitar Hero game, musicians have found ways of converting game music controllers into genuine music controllers, through various hacks and tricks. But now, no hackery is needed: Rock Band 3?s new "Pro" controllers ship with actual MIDI DIN ports on the back. With the help of Harmonix, we get to look inside how that MIDI implementation works.

The Rock Band 3 Fender Mustang Pro-Guitar, designed as a collaboration between Harmonix and Mad Catz and manufactured by the latter, isn't exactly a full-blown MIDI guitar. It has strings, but in place of fretting those strings, you instead use 102 fret buttons. (Stay tuned for details of the Squier Strat for RB3, which will be both – actual strings over the frets.)

Non-guitarists won't mind the buttons: there's no need to build up callouses. And the frets are located in the right place, so if you do know how to fret a guitar, you'll find it usable. The other big upshot is price: with a street price of US$150, the Mustang is on the high end of game controller, but very much the low end of things that can simulate a guitar with MIDI.

I don't yet have a Mustang on-hand — I'm hoping I can find a real guitarists to give one a full play test when it ships late in November. But I can describe how MIDI works on the device.

The hardware:

    Six actual strings sense velocity. (As you can see in the picture, they stop before they get to the fretboard, covering only the distance needed to allow you to strum them.)
    102 buttons stand in for frets (17 frets, 6 buttons per fret)
    Power from three AA batteries
    6.3 lbs
    Tilt sensor
    Xbox 360 game pad
    TRS port for stomp, expression pedal input. (Stomp pedals from the game will work; for expression pedals, we'll need to do a hack or DIY solution.)

Here's the pleasant surprise: just about everything onboard is mapped to MIDI, including even the game pad and tilt sensor. And there are even two play modes for additional flexibility when you're working with MIDI.

Thanks to that 5-pin MIDI DIN port, you can connect the guitar to any computer or synth – even a post-MIDI vintage synth found on eBay. (No USB MIDI is provided, but a lot of audio interfaces and keyboards give you a MIDI in port "for free.")

Configuration instructions: step one, turn it on. (The PS3 and Wii version will have an actual power switch; on Xbox 360, you have to hold down the Guide button, just as on other Xbox controllers.) Step two, plug in a MIDI cable (the one with 5 pins that we've been using for over a quarter century). Step three — there is no step three. Turn it on, plug, and go.

MIDI implementation

Octave: Increment and decrement octave are the left and right action buttons (X and B on Xbox).

Program change: Increment and decrement are the top and bottom action buttons (that's Y and A on Xbox). Transmits on channels 1-6. No, really. There's a program change message implemented on this thing. The default is 28, the patch for a clean electric guitar in General MIDI.

D-pad buttons switch functions for the pedal, from foot controller to channel volume to expression.

Pedals: Connect an analog pedal, and you can use continuous expression or volume. Connect a digital stomp (that is, one that's either on or off, like the bass drum pedal), and you send a damper pedal / sustain message.

Panic: Mercifully, there's an all notes off command issued if you press the Xbox Back, Start, and D-Pad right at the same time. (Hmmm – feels like ctrl-alt-del.)

MIDI channel: By default, the guitar transmits on channels 1-6 — that's in order to transmit strings separately. Each of the six strings is a different channel.

Accelerometer transmits Modulation on the X axis, Expression on the Y axis, and Pitch Bend on the Z axis, and each can be toggled independently with shift (the Start key) + B, A, and X, respectively. (That's a good thing, as controlling all three at once would be a little messy.)

Frets and strings: Here's the tricky part, because you're strumming something rather than playing a MIDI keyboard. There are two modes:

    "Strum mode." Hold a fret, then strum the string. The note is sent when – and only when – you strum. The pitch is set by whichever fret is closest. That note is held until you change a fret.
    "Synth mode." Strumming a string or changing frets will generate a note – meaning, if you like, you can use that fretboard as a 102-key keyboard. (Microtonal fans, go nuts.) Here's the odd part, though – you need the strum to set velocity, so whichever strum you've last strummed is your current velocity. While it's called "synth" mode, this is the only mode that allows hammer-ons and pull-offs.

We're going to need to get the actual guitar and shoot some video before that really makes sense. But you get the idea.

You can adjust pitch up and down 4 octaves in either direction.

LED feedback gives you information on what's toggled and what isn't, though my guess is you'll just listen rather than try to squint at the LEDs."




No doubt the blow out pricing is due to the lack of sales for Guitar games in 2011

more here:
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/09/guitar-hero-is-dead-will-rock-band-and-dj-hero-be-next/

Elantric


celestmark

NewEgg now has it at 124.99  ???  Wish I saw this earlier!

Sent the the YRG back to Amazon as mine has a serious glitch with preset #6... and I didn't really care for it anyways.

This maybe the fix needed until StarrLabs gets off their dub for the Rock controller they keep teasing us with!

Elantric

#3
I tried the MadCatz PS3 Rock Band 3 controller
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/10/rock-band-3-fender-mustang-pro-midi/#more-14362
IT didnt work for me, and of course it will not connect to an Ipad without a third party MIDI I/O adapter.


The You Rock goes on sale time to time ( I've seen them for $109 at Provantage.com )-and with the latest firmware works for my needs(Cliff at YRG is brilliant),  and connects  to the IPad with the Apple Camera Kit - makes a small grab & go practice rig!
But it seems many disgruntled YRG owners complain of the variable picking string response, and  that it does not track open strings adequately - if at all.

Remember all these membrane fretboard controllers are what they are, which means these are NOT guitars, and you must work around their limitations.

none of them bend strings either. 


Your mileage may vary. You either work with them and adapt, - or really Hate them!

If you really want the  MadCatz PS3 Rock Band 3 controller, wait a few months, get a used one on ebay. many for sale now.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5551&rt=nc&_nkw=MadCatz+mustang&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1

or if you can wait for StarrLabs R&D - look at this option:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4706.msg31729#msg31729

Elantric


HarrySound

#5
Hi!
I've been playing guitar since august 94 and now I'm old and rich I've been setting up a home studio.Which is great fun.
Lately Ive been getting by using a Rock Band 3 Pro Guitar straight into the PC to trigger instruments in Kontakt 4 and now 5.

Now you might think using a Rock Band 3 Pro Guitar toy can't be much good but I've found it functional and cheap if very limited.


Now though I think it's time to step up to the real deal and I need some advice.
I only want a midi guitar setup to trigger soft synths in my PC. I have no interest in substandard built in sounds.
What worries me though is the latency I keep hearing about.
I'm not expecting 0ms latency but some people are describing the latency from Roland devices as completely unworkable.

I understand the Axon unit are the best for my purpose but they're also not an option anywhere (even EBay)

So is my only realistic choice a Roland unit?
I'm looking at bidding on a Roland GR20 with GK3 pickup.
Will this unit be playable at least? and how is the tracking?
I know from recording with the Rock Band guitar that you can get alot of ghost notes appearing on the piano roll within your DAW but I found that recording with just the right amount of auto quantise can help this.
Does this kind of thing still effect systems as advanced as a dedicated Roland unit?
Does anyone have a ballpark figure of the latency when using it as a external midi instrument into something like Kontakt?


Any advice or suggestions would be awesome and I thank you in advance.

Here's something I did a while back using the rock band guitar.

It could have been alot better but then you end up just fighting technology, thus why I am here. :)




Elantric

#6
QuoteI only want a midi guitar setup to trigger soft synths in my PC.


If that is your only goal - Whats wrong with continued use of the MadCatz / Fender Mustang Rock Band 3 controller you already own?

That controller already has 1000% faster triggering than any Roland MIDI guitar. It just lacks individual string bending.


Be sure you have read the advanced MIDI control manual for the MadCatz / Fender Mustang Rock Band 3 controller. (see attached)


As there is far more than meets the eye with the Mustang Rock Band 3 controller

This article is worth reading too:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/10/rock-band-3-fender-mustang-pro-midi/#more-14362
=====
Oct 27 2010
Exclusive Details: How the Rock Band 3 Fender Mustang Works as a MIDI Guitar

by Peter Kirn

A toy controller – in a good way. The Mustang Pro guitar controller for Rock Band 3 is equipped with a full MIDI implementation and standard 5-pin port to connect to synths and computers.

Since the very first Guitar Hero game, musicians have found ways of converting game music controllers into genuine music controllers, through various hacks and tricks. But now, no hackery is needed: Rock Band 3?s new "Pro" controllers ship with actual MIDI DIN ports on the back. With the help of Harmonix, we get to look inside how that MIDI implementation works.

The Rock Band 3 Fender Mustang Pro-Guitar, designed as a collaboration between Harmonix and Mad Catz and manufactured by the latter, isn't exactly a full-blown MIDI guitar. It has strings, but in place of fretting those strings, you instead use 102 fret buttons. (Stay tuned for details of the Squier Strat for RB3, which will be both – actual strings over the frets.)

Non-guitarists won't mind the buttons: there's no need to build up callouses. And the frets are located in the right place, so if you do know how to fret a guitar, you'll find it usable. The other big upshot is price: with a street price of US$150, the Mustang is on the high end of game controller, but very much the low end of things that can simulate a guitar with MIDI.

I don't yet have a Mustang on-hand — I'm hoping I can find a real guitarists to give one a full play test when it ships late in November. But I can describe how MIDI works on the device.

The hardware:

    Six actual strings sense velocity. (As you can see in the picture, they stop before they get to the fretboard, covering only the distance needed to allow you to strum them.)
    102 buttons stand in for frets (17 frets, 6 buttons per fret)
    Power from three AA batteries
    6.3 lbs
    Tilt sensor
    Xbox 360 game pad
    TRS port for stomp, expression pedal input. (Stomp pedals from the game will work; for expression pedals, we'll need to do a hack or DIY solution.)

Here's the pleasant surprise: just about everything onboard is mapped to MIDI, including even the game pad and tilt sensor. And there are even two play modes for additional flexibility when you're working with MIDI.

Thanks to that 5-pin MIDI DIN port, you can connect the guitar to any computer or synth – even a post-MIDI vintage synth found on eBay. (No USB MIDI is provided, but a lot of audio interfaces and keyboards give you a MIDI in port "for free.")

Configuration instructions: step one, turn it on. (The PS3 and Wii version will have an actual power switch; on Xbox 360, you have to hold down the Guide button, just as on other Xbox controllers.) Step two, plug in a MIDI cable (the one with 5 pins that we've been using for over a quarter century). Step three — there is no step three. Turn it on, plug, and go.

MIDI implementation

Octave: Increment and decrement octave are the left and right action buttons (X and B on Xbox).

Program change: Increment and decrement are the top and bottom action buttons (that's Y and A on Xbox). Transmits on channels 1-6. No, really. There's a program change message implemented on this thing. The default is 28, the patch for a clean electric guitar in General MIDI.

D-pad buttons switch functions for the pedal, from foot controller to channel volume to expression.

Pedals: Connect an analog pedal, and you can use continuous expression or volume. Connect a digital stomp (that is, one that's either on or off, like the bass drum pedal), and you send a damper pedal / sustain message.

Panic: Mercifully, there's an all notes off command issued if you press the Xbox Back, Start, and D-Pad right at the same time. (Hmmm – feels like ctrl-alt-del.)

MIDI channel: By default, the guitar transmits on channels 1-6 — that's in order to transmit strings separately. Each of the six strings is a different channel.

Accelerometer transmits Modulation on the X axis, Expression on the Y axis, and Pitch Bend on the Z axis, and each can be toggled independently with shift (the Start key) + B, A, and X, respectively. (That's a good thing, as controlling all three at once would be a little messy.)

Frets and strings: Here's the tricky part, because you're strumming something rather than playing a MIDI keyboard. There are two modes:

    "Strum mode." Hold a fret, then strum the string. The note is sent when – and only when – you strum. The pitch is set by whichever fret is closest. That note is held until you change a fret.
    "Synth mode." Strumming a string or changing frets will generate a note – meaning, if you like, you can use that fretboard as a 102-key keyboard. (Microtonal fans, go nuts.) Here's the odd part, though – you need the strum to set velocity, so whichever strum you've last strummed is your current velocity. While it's called "synth" mode, this is the only mode that allows hammer-ons and pull-offs.

We're going to need to get the actual guitar and shoot some video before that really makes sense. But you get the idea.

You can adjust pitch up and down 4 octaves in either direction.

LED feedback gives you information on what's toggled and what isn't, though my guess is you'll just listen rather than try to squint at the LEDs.
Want Real Strings?

Described in this story is the Mustang Pro, but you can also look forward to this Squier Stratocaster for Rock Band 3. It'll have all the MIDI features, but with real strings over the frets – it's a real guitar.

If those buttons look unappealing to you, Rock Band 3 will have an alternative with real strings, the Squier Stratocaster.

In many ways, the Squier is more interesting – especially to actual guitarists, and not just people looking for a new way to fiddle with soft synths. With real strings, it ceases to be a toy, and while pricing and availability haven't yet been announced, it's likely to be the cheapest MIDI guitar solution out there.

I've confirmed that the MIDI implementation on the Squier will be similar to the Fender Mustang Pro – same channels and messages. It lacks the pedal inputs.

Engadget did a nice hands-on preview of the Strat, with photos and video.
Likely applications

With both "Synth" and "Strum" modes possible, I think Harmonix and Mad Catz may have a hit here. For someone who isn't quite ready to commit to a MIDI guitar yet but just wants an alternative way to track some MIDI lines, it's hard to beat basic input for $150, with frets in the right place instead of a piano keyboard. For other applications, I can imagine having some real fun – with the accelerometer and "Synth Mode," the guitar becomes a very viable, absurdly cheap, velocity-sensitive controller for strange new synths and other creations.

It's probably some of those oddball applications that will appeal most, as I suspect real guitarists will hold out for the stringed-fret Squier, leaving the buttons to the rest of us.

Beyond MIDI: These are wireless Xbox 360 controllers, too, so if you have any tool that can talk to Xbox controllers on PC, you should theoretically be able to rig up something wireless that doesn't involve MIDI cabling. But I like the ability to plug into hardware synths with MIDI, no computer necessary, too – and as I say, those MIDI ports are often "free" on gear you already have plugged into your computer.

Stay tuned for when this ships.

Hopefully that gives you an idea whether you want to pre-order this sucker. Knock yourself out.






HarrySound

Really?
The fender mustang is faster than any Roland kit?
Wow things must be bad in Ro-land.
So you don't think it's worth the upgrade?
Is there no more pros to going Roland than I already have?
(i already knew most of the functions of the rock band guitar but that link was helpful, never could figure out the modulation)

Elantric

#8
QuoteThe fender mustang is faster than any Roland kit?

Indeed - a mechanical switch will always be faster and more error free than performing pitch to MIDI conversion from a vibrating guitar string.

The only reason folks use the Roland stuff is because they want to mix regular guitar sound with a MIDi triggered Synth sound.

The best regular Guitar to MIDI systems all have at minimum 12-25milleseconds latency - this includes the much heralded Axon systems and even the new Fishman TriplePlay that is still at least 4-6 months away.

Yes your "toy" or a You Rock Guitar is much faster!     

Here are the detailed latency numbers of many guitar to MIDI systems compared:
http://www.joness.com/gr300/MIDI_SPEED.htm


HarrySound

Well, maybe you've saved me some cash.
Having said that though I think 12-25ms latency is a decent.
I could almost cope with that with a real guitar into Guitar Rig software (though I tend to get 4ms)
hmmm Maybe i'll sit on the idea for now then, you've put me off :)
Kinda wish I could try one just to see for myself though.

Elantric

QuoteKinda wish I could try one just to see for myself though.

Look for a used Roland GR-30 with GK-2A on ebay - they regularly go for $225. If it does not suit you - you could easily re-sell it and loose no money.

or

Buy a new GR-55 with GK-3 for $899 from a store with a 30 day return policy.


or

Wait until October 2012 for the Fishman TriplePlay

Elantric

#11
I actually own far too many guitars - recently acquired a MadCatz / Fender Mustang Rock Band 3 controller  of my own ($55 from Amazon)

I like the fact it includes a 3.5mm TRS jack for a DIY remote expression pedal.

But for grab & Go - I prefer my You Rock Guitar. It has a USB Class compliant interface that works for both Audio and MIDI  - I can connect the YRG to my Ipad using the Apple CCK be very productive with my all IOS music apps.

The YRG goes on sale for $130 all the time.

But yes - both above "toys" will trigger MIDI notes with near zero timing latency - which is something the "Pro" units which mount on normal guitars can not achieve.

HarrySound

Ok i've seen the Fishman on youtube.
Hold the phone!
Incoming call!
This is exactly what I need!
I shall wait till October.
Thank you!

tekrytor

#13
Quote from:  HarrySound on May 21, 2012, 04:54:17 PM
...
Kinda wish I could try one just to see for myself though.

Most reputable online music stores have a 30 day return policy.


SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

aliensporebomb

#14
There's also the possibility of not using pitch to voltage or guitar to midi for synthesizer like sounds with no delay at all using real electric guitars that you tune with strings and you buy them in stores.

Yes, all VG-99 with no external effects processing.



(Okay, it's my newest and shortest video but it's also the closest to faux-symphonic strings I've gotten and you were doing some really nice faux string work with that faux-Fender). 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

HarrySound

Thanks bit I definitely intend on waiting for the Fishman now.
Some say August September at the earliest.

kenact

Quote from:  HarrySound on May 22, 2012, 03:30:11 AM
Thanks bit I definitely intend on waiting for the Fishman now.
To be clear, the Fishman, just like the GR-55, is doing pitch-to-midi conversion.  There is still some latency involved, but no 13 pin cable.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

Elantric

#17
Rock Band 3 Wireless Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller now $40+ Shipping

Amazon with The Price Pros has the Mad Catz Rock Band 3 Wireless Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller (Nintendo Wii) for $40 + $8 shipping = $48 shipped. Features 17-fret touch-sensitive neck with six buttons per fret provides a total of 102 active finger positions and six low-latency strings for actual note strumming.


Cheapest New 5 pin MIDI guitar on the planet.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003RRTYEQ



Elantric

#19
Yes - Ive played one of those too (Squier® by Fender® Stratocaster® Guitar and Controller for Rock Band 3)  -and I'm NOT interested at that price, although there are many hustlers on Ebay claiming they are rare and valuable, and trying to sell them for more than that. i found it to be rather worthless myself, while the MadCatz Mustang by contrast at under $50 could be a useful tool for someone.


mbenigni

#20
On your recommendation (and on something of a whim) I just ordered the MadCatz Mustang.  Thanks for the heads-up.

I'm not likely to ever use it as a musical instrument while I've got GK guitars and the GR55 on hand, but I have a barely-touched copy of Rock Band 3 that I bought just as the novelty of those games was starting to wear off for me.  I'm curious to see whether this will make the game fun again - or better still, educational.  We already have the keyboard bundle, so maybe my wife (an excellent pianist) and I can use the game to work out some duet arrangements.  :)  For $40, it's worth a go.

I considered buying the MIDI Pro Adaptor instead:
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Rock-Band-Midi-PRO-Adapter/dp/B00409SOD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344021610&sr=8-1&keywords=midi+pro+adapter
...and using my Parker MIDIFly to play RB3, but I'd probably have significant latency, not to mention miles of cable - MIDI and phantom power.  All in, this is probably more practical.  (Excepting the probability that I'll never find time to use it...)

mbenigni

#21
A little cautionary tale about the above MadCatz controller link, which will serve to embarrass myself as much as besmirch the Amazon partner who was shipping at that price:  if you have any intention of using it for Rock Band, be aware that this is a Wii-specific product.  It's one of those rare cases where nothing indicates as much in the product description, and Amazon features a little widget on the page to let you specify otherwise, i.e. XBox or Playstation.

So, I ordered the Wii version by mistake, and let the vendor (The Price Pros) know the day after it arrived.  They agreed to a return only if I paid a 20% restocking fee, which in my experience is unheard of for an unopened box immediately after receipt.  They agreed to waive the 20% restocking fee if I bought the XBox controller from them, which had been my intention anyway.  So I checked Amazon and the price for the XBox version was $70.  Oops... OK, my bad.  But THEN I checked The Price Pros price on Amazon, and it's over $150!  Competitors are selling it as cheap as $40 of course.  Pros indeed. 

Email correspondence with them has since degenerated into a bizarre back and forth of canned form letters.  I can't even get them to verify their price.

So, while this obviously started out as my mistake, I can't help but feel that The Price Pros are deftly exploiting the quirky presentation on Amazon.  Proceed with caution with these guys.

Elantric

 Bummer,

FWIW - all versions of the Madcatz Fender Mustang PRO-Guitar Controller support a normal hardwired 5 pin MIDI Out port and can be configured for a separate MIDI channel per string. I hadn't thought about recommending this MIDI Controller to actually play Rock Band 3, but thats me.

mbenigni

Yeah, I know you were recommending the controller for MIDI editing, and hadn't even considered the gaming aspect.  That's part of why it was so easy for me to forget that compatibility was even a consideration.  I just clicked the link and added to cart.   ::)

I've got so many MIDI guitars at this point, I'm not likely to ever use this thing for a "real" musical application.  I'll probably just pay the 20% and then take what little satisfaction I can by posting the annoying email trail somewhere on the web.  These guys have provided one of the worst online shopping experiences I've ever had.

mbenigni

#24
My little dance with the Price Pros continues... I got a series of conflicting emails from them over the course of about a week, then finally gave up and shipped the controller back.  Today I got a refund notice; somehow they took my $40, minus their 20% BS "restocking" fee, and arrived at $23.  What??

Their transparent "breakdown" of my refund is as follows:

QuoteHere's the breakdown of your refund for this item:

        Item Refund: $23.98

Illuminating.  I'm now completely comfortable saying: these guys are either serious scam artists, or too incompetent to be conducting business on the web.  Avoid.