I Talked Myself Into Buying More 13 Pin Gear By Arguing Its Obsolescence

Started by Rhcole, August 03, 2017, 01:46:02 PM

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Rhcole

Ha! Smart guy!  ;D

Over in the Antares section, members have been largely bemoaning the discontinuance of the ATG-1 floor processor.
I commented about a project I worked on last year that could eventually make hex pickups obsolete using AI and advanced DSP.
What I didn't discuss was how much MONEY, EXPERTISE, and TIME this would take. The project I worked on last year would require serious heavy lifting to accomplish anything really meaningful, and I was discussing this with really experienced, smart people. And, I'm pretty sure that none of the big companies are really moving in this direction because advanced AI and superpowered DSP are not where their heads are at.

I DO think it will happen, but not anytime soon enough for many members of this forum to enjoy.

So, after my postings, I thought "What the...", and I just bought an ATG-1 before they are all gone.
I think 1/4" quality synth sounds are here today and will be even better tomorrow. But alt tunings and other really fancy esoterica?
Better hunker down with your hex if that is your cup of tea, because the wait will be a long one!   ;)






alexmcginness

Quote from: Rhcole on August 03, 2017, 01:46:02 PM


Better hunker down with your hex if that is your cup of tea, because the wait will be a long one!   ;)

Yup... Ive done that. I have enough VG-99s to last a while....
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

chrish

Quote  "As most music companies have other interests, though, it may be quite a few years away. In fact, I could in some ways see an Apple, Google, or Amazon product that catches everybody off guard in the music industry."

Rhc
That's a quoted comment from the other thread that you made.

I believe you are correct that a company like Google will catch everyone off guard in the music industry with music related product.

Google is also the company that Elon Musk is most concerned with in developing AI without ethical consideration.

I often wonder if Google searches and the web data it collects is somehow being used to Model human Behavior for its AI programs.

From reading the material and interviews that are offered up by  Musk, Hawken and Gates, their concerns are that the technology will develop sooner rather than later, and develop without proper ethical considerations and legal restraints put on a technology that could prove disastrous.

Just consider how fast humans went from first flight to landing on the moon. What was that, less than 70 years?

I vaguely remember an internet article about an AI machine producing ambient music. The machine was capable of analyzing what  intervals and sounds would be most pleasing to human ears and produce music based on that type of analysis.

So it's already happening.

It does seem like the next logical step in the evolution of the machine world is to replace human musicians all together. ;)






Rhcole

AI Ambient music already exists. Some of it is good.
All this IS a bit off-topic, but my final webinar in my 7-year series with the Irvine Chamber was about the implications of AI.
AI is an astonishing technology, it is both beautiful and dangerous beyond our wildest imaginings.

As far as developing AI to completely replace musicians, if that occurs, then I hope somebody invents AI to listen to it!  ::)

Elantric

Quote from: Rhcole on August 03, 2017, 03:52:07 PM
AI Ambient music already exists. Some of it is good.
All this IS a bit off-topic, but my final webinar in my 7-year series with the Irvine Chamber was about the implications of AI.
AI is an astonishing technology, it is both beautiful and dangerous beyond our wildest imaginings.

As far as developing AI to completely replace musicians, if that occurs, then I hope somebody invents AI to listen to it!  ::)







more
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEeNJvSplCddJc9oSdxj9Ig/videos

DreamTheory

electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

vanceg

Hahaha.  OK.  Then Ignore my rant at your posting about the death of 13 pin.   And, by the way, I do see and agree that the major manufacturers aren't really FOCUSED on 13 pin right now, but I'd argue that the capabilities that hex processing have opened up are still very much on the minds of large and small manufacturers alike, and won't be going away.  Minor lull in major product announcements is where I think we are at.  Next step are some more small companies making boutique hex tools, then some improvements in some of the core unique feature set (which I see as alternate tunings, 12 strings, B-Benders and Pickup/Instrument emulation) in the major brands.  I think a breakthrough will be when we can chain hex processors, and when more hex processors become simple to integrate with regular guitar rigs.

gumbo

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

billbax

Hi Rhcole,

It's clear to anyone with an average IQ, a decline in 13-pin gear will be down to a manufacturers commercial decision - not a hex pre-amp/v-synth - versus mono guitar signal DSP supreme design.  You only need to take a look at the forum's snowballing membership with 21,000+, and realise separate strings via 13-pin is going to be here for some time. 

Accessing hex separate strings in a 'front-end' analog preamp is king btw, and what happens after that is up to the user.

Today, creative guitar players and producers want the universe, with guitar production techniques and no restraints - a 'we want it all' attitude. You seem to suggest a 'Star Trek' futuristic solution is just around the corner with a mono signal, can you elaborate on this specifically?

Do you have any url links to your practical work: guitar playing/production, audio research articles, personal website etc?

I do not mean to be overly direct, although you might show the forum some hard evidence with your topic.

Thanks,

Bill

Kevin M

Quote from: vanceg on August 03, 2017, 07:08:36 PM
Hahaha.  OK.  Then Ignore my rant at your posting about the death of 13 pin.   And, by the way, I do see and agree that the major manufacturers aren't really FOCUSED on 13 pin right now, but I'd argue that the capabilities that hex processing have opened up are still very much on the minds of large and small manufacturers alike, and won't be going away.  Minor lull in major product announcements is where I think we are at.  Next step are some more small companies making boutique hex tools, then some improvements in some of the core unique feature set (which I see as alternate tunings, 12 strings, B-Benders and Pickup/Instrument emulation) in the major brands.  I think a breakthrough will be when we can chain hex processors, and when more hex processors become simple to integrate with regular guitar rigs.

I think improvements on the software side will make hex pickups obsolete (think melodyne on steroids).  Just an uneducated guess, though. :-)

chrish

Quote from: billbax on August 04, 2017, 10:58:54 AM

Do you have any url links to your practical work: guitar playing/production, audio research articles, personal website etc?

I do not mean to be overly direct, although you might show the forum hard some evidence with your topic.

Thanks,

Bill
for starters he has some excellent Gear reviews and some very excellent patches for the sy-300 posted here on the Forum. :)

admin

Quote from:  sec6
All I know is that for NAMM 2017, they stuffed a gp10 into an expensive guitar.




Actually it was just a Roland G5 DSP board with different firmware installed in a Strandberg Boden fanned fret guitar


vanceg

Quote from: Kevin M on August 04, 2017, 12:35:15 PM
I think improvements on the software side will make hex pickups obsolete (think melodyne on steroids).  Just an uneducated guess, though. :-)

Yeah, I'd say "maybe SOMEday" but it still, even if the power exists, seems easier, simpler and cheaper to use divided pickups...and I'd assert that folks making money of developing and selling a product often take the path that would provide them the most profit. Even just from that standpoint, I'd assert that divided pickups are a good idea.

But - Perhaps signal dividing technology will take a huge leap and will offer some major advantage. I don't see that technology looming very close by.

chrish

Quote from: vanceg on August 04, 2017, 01:41:12 PM
Yeah, I'd say "maybe SOMEday" but it still, even if the power exists, seems easier, simpler and cheaper to use divided pickups...and I'd assert that folks making money of developing and selling a product often take the path that would provide them the most profit. Even just from that standpoint, I'd assert that divided pickups are a good idea.

But - Perhaps signal dividing technology will take a huge leap and will offer some major advantage. I don't see that technology looming very close by.
yes it seems like a GK 3 would be a high-profit item for Roland. I wonder just how many GK pickups Roland has sold throughout the years.





vanceg

Quote from: chrish on August 04, 2017, 02:39:53 PM
yes it seems like a GK 3 would be a high-profit item for Roland. I wonder just how many GK pickups Roland has sold throughout the years.

that would be interesting to learn.  I'm just glad there are some options for using something OTHER than the GK-3 nowadays.