Author Topic: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups  (Read 912 times)

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Offline vanceg

Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« on: May 02, 2017, 11:29:08 AM »
http://www.cycfi.com/2017/05/nu-update-roland-13-pin-adaptor/

Cycfi has announced a 13 pin output option for their NU divided pickups.  This allows the NU to be used directly with 13 pin equipped gear. Cycfi has seen fit to support the Normal Guitar input as well as the S1/S2 switch normally associated with the GK series pickups.  So the NU now become a very viable replacement or alternative to the GK-3
I've been using the NU with the VG-99 for a while now and like them significantly more than the GK-3.  Any guitar I would normally consider a GK-3 internal kit for now gets the NU pickups, especially now that there is direct support for 13pin.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 12:13:55 PM by admsustainiac »

Online admsustainiac

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2017, 11:53:13 AM »

Dont forget the important GK-Volume on Pin #8 - if there is no connection on pin#8 the connected GK Processor (GR-55, VG-99, GP-10, etc) will assume the GK-VOL is on "0" and never make a sound  .



Still awaiting string to string crosstalk performance data for the Cycfli NU divided pickups - if this is too high , expect anomalies with DSP Alt Tuning and Guitar to PCM, Guitar to MIDI anomalies. 


http://www.cycfi.com/blog/
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 03:46:08 PM by Elantric »

Offline vanceg

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2017, 06:59:45 PM »
I'm finding that the crosstalk off my NU pickups is at least as good if not somewhat better than that on the GK3 equipped guitars I have. 

One of my instruments currently has a single coil pickup right next to the GK-3.  I think what I'll do is pop a set of NU's into this instrument so that I can do some nearly a/b tests to compare the two pickup systems.

I always turn the GK-3 volume sensing off on my VG-99.  I never ever use that knob for volume. 

Offline Elantric

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 07:04:55 PM »
Quote
I always turn the GK-3 volume sensing off on my VG-99.  I never ever use that knob for volume.

many other GK Processors do not have that feature

Offline GuitarBuilder

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 09:56:06 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)
Dont forget the important GK-Volume on Pin #8 - if there is no connection on pin#8 the connected GK Processor (GR-55, VG-99, GP-10, etc) will assume the GK-VOL is on "0" and never make a sound.

The Cycfi GK Breakout Board includes circuitry and connection for GK Volume.

Quote
Still awaiting string to string crosstalk performance data for the Cycfli NU divided pickups - if this is too high , expect anomalies with DSP Alt Tuning and Guitar to PCM, Guitar to MIDI anomalies.

Can you elaborate what data you are looking for?  Do you have a specific test setup in mind?  Can you show us the baseline data for a GK-3 pickup?  So far we have user testimonials that the Nu pickups are usable with VG-99 and 6APPEAL systems.

Offline Elantric

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 10:05:13 AM »
Quote
Can you elaborate what data you are looking for?  Do you have a specific test setup in mind?  Can you show us the baseline data for a GK-3 pickup?  So far we have user testimonials that the Nu pickups are usable with VG-99 and 6APPEAL systems.

Sure, use the String sensitivity screen on your GK processor and strike the "G" string - and see if you see the level meters for adjacent string move too

If they are moving - you have poor adjacent string "crosstalk" signal invading the other string's signal path = terrible Guitar to MIDI tracking, DSP Alt Tuning warbles
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20783.msg149904#msg149904

GR-55 example:
Pluck the "G" string only -
 See upper pic below = high adjacent string crosstalk
Lower pic = excellent adjacent string crosstalk:
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 10:10:43 AM by Elantric »

Offline vanceg

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 02:23:15 PM »
There are none of my GK-3 equipped guitars on which I do not see ANY signal when I strike an adjacent string.   Of the dozens of guitars I've set up with GK-series pickups, not a single one, including the ones even with Piezo pickups, I always see a LITTLE crosstalk.  Always. 

What I've seen with the Cycfi so far is that I can get the pickup further from the string than I can with the GK before that crosstalk becomes an issue.  If I put the Cycfi pickup as close to the string as I do the GK-3 (about 1mm if my tremolo allows for it) then I see significantly less crosstalk on the Cycfi than I do with the GK-3. 

Hopefully before the middle of next month when I head back out on tour, I can set up a test guitar with a GK-3 right next to a set of NU's so we can get some sort of comparison going.


Offline GuitarBuilder

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 02:24:32 PM »
Sounds like an interesting approach; however, I'm concerned that the string sensitivity setting would be a huge variable affecting cross-talk (witness the lower settings in the lower image).  Since we would be comparing the GK hex pickup with the Cycfi Nu, I suggest we agree on some measurement conditions:

1) It would be advisable to agree on a "standard" string sensitivity (or better yet a voltage measurement) for each pickup type to make it an equitable comparison.  The Roland method is not likely to be very repeatable or reliable from player to player (what is playing a string at "normal" strength anyway?)
2) Use repeatable pickup heights (distance from strings) for each type of pickup, as this is another huge factor
3) Express cross-talk as a ratio of adjacent string amplitude to plucked string amplitude.  Decide on what is an acceptable ratio (may have to be determined empirically based on tracking or warbles)
4) Since the Nu pickup setting is likely to be PIEZO, we need to agree to test at a common setting for PIEZO TONE LOW and PIEZO TONE HIGH (perhaps 0 dB)

I'm thinking it might be easier to use a breakout box and 6 tracks on a DAW?

Any other suggestions?

Offline vanceg

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 02:25:12 PM »
Note also - the Cycfi 13 pin output module DOES have an input for the GK-volume setting, It just doesn't seem to come with a volume knob for it.  I'm assuming (checking now) that their volume knob that they currently sell for the Nexus system is set up to connect directly to the 13pin adaptor board.  I can't imagine that this is not the case.

Vance

Offline GuitarBuilder

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 02:27:13 PM »
Note also - the Cycfi 13 pin output module DOES have an input for the GK-volume setting, It just doesn't seem to come with a volume knob for it.  I'm assuming (checking now) that their volume knob that they currently sell for the Nexus system is set up to connect directly to the 13pin adaptor board.  I can't imagine that this is not the case.

Vance

Yes, the idea is to use the Cycfi CV Potentiometer with 0-5V out.

Offline Elantric

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2017, 06:52:45 PM »
Quote
I'm thinking it might be easier to use a breakout box and 6 tracks on a DAW?





i agree

Ideal situation  - use an audio interface with at least 8 inputs , and record 6 tracks of separate string signals on 6 tracks in Reaper
Would be noice to also record a normal mag Pu signal on a separate track too - to
Since Reaper is share ware, we could share reaper multi-track audio files with Dropbox and review / compare our results

But the "hurdle" is everyone plays the strings differently and has different guitars and different divided  / hex pickup height setting, etc - and all those impact the adjacent string crosstalk results too.   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:10:41 PM by Elantric »

Offline GuitarBuilder

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 07:33:54 AM »
I'll go with this approach; my Nu-equipped guitar is still in the early build stage, perhaps one of the others can try the DAW route sooner.

Meanwhile, it was mentioned on the Cycfi Facebook page that the Nu crosstalk had been measured to be 49-53 dB.

Offline Smash

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 03:58:41 AM »
Interested in this as alternative to GK3 but can't work out a full GK kit price from their website - have emailed and wait reply although from I can see the basic nu series pickup is way more expensive than a GK3 before adding the GK board and anything else required. May be a bit too suited to hacker types for my "bolt on" liking!

Offline chlorinemist

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 05:16:16 AM »
Interested in this as alternative to GK3 but can't work out a full GK kit price from their website - have emailed and wait reply although from I can see the basic nu series pickup is way more expensive than a GK3 before adding the GK board and anything else required. May be a bit too suited to hacker types for my "bolt on" liking!

Regarding the "hacking" difficulty level: it's simpler than you'd think. All their stuff is solderless, much easier to assemble than normal guitar electronics. Very quick and simple to install. Depending on the guitar you have you might need to drill a hole, but that's about the extent of skill you need.

Their prices are usually very reasonable. I've bought a lot of their off-catalogue stuff, and judging by their typical prices for this kind of thing I'd say the GK kit will probably go for something in the ballpark of $20-$40. The Nu Multi 6 pickup is $200. So total it's less than $100 more than a new GK-3.

If you use hex for midi control exclusively, a GK handles that just fine and has a nice price.
However, if you use hex for audio processing and polyphonic effects, the Cycfi stuff is a HUGE upgrade. Spending the negligible additional money and effort required for such a substantial sound improvement is a complete no brainer, in my humble opinion.

Offline billbax

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 06:05:39 AM »
Quote
But the "hurdle" is everyone plays the strings differently and has different guitars and different divided  / hex pickup height setting, etc - and all those impact the adjacent string crosstalk results too.

Even if your playing technique was as deliberate as a robot, it would still be near impossible to better a 30-35dB string separation.  With fingers touching strings and related notes resonating, even the most careful playing technique will all eat into a string separation of 20dB, let alone 35dB.  If you play the note "E" on string "A", bottom "E" will resonate by -5 to 10dB.  A string dampener might help to suppress unwanted notes btw. 

I welcome the impressive Cycfli NU "49-53 dB" string separation figures, as it's a move in the right direction.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 01:00:25 PM by billbax »

Offline Smash

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 06:59:08 AM »
Regarding the "hacking" difficulty level: it's simpler than you'd think. All their stuff is solderless, much easier to assemble than normal guitar electronics. Very quick and simple to install. Depending on the guitar you have you might need to drill a hole, but that's about the extent of skill you need.

Their prices are usually very reasonable. I've bought a lot of their off-catalogue stuff, and judging by their typical prices for this kind of thing I'd say the GK kit will probably go for something in the ballpark of $20-$40. The Nu Multi 6 pickup is $200. So total it's less than $100 more than a new GK-3.

If you use hex for midi control exclusively, a GK handles that just fine and has a nice price.
However, if you use hex for audio processing and polyphonic effects, the Cycfi stuff is a HUGE upgrade. Spending the negligible additional money and effort required for such a substantial sound improvement is a complete no brainer, in my humble opinion.

Mainly using the GK3 for alternate tuning and COSM models with occasional MIDI. Does the increased sound improvement translate in the COSM environment? Has anyone actually run their GK adapted hex into a VG99 or GP10 for COSM comparisons.

My problem - and I accept it's my problem - is I'm in the UK so I'd guess all in it would end up costing me 300 odd quid by the time VAT duty and shipping hit if the base is $200. I was hoping I might be able to get it in around the £200 mark which would make it a viable an interesting alternative,

I'm in the midst of a Rig-life crisis(!) and re-assessing everything I have vs what I actually need

Offline Elantric

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 04:33:21 PM »
Too bad all Cycfi NuPlus divided pickups are currently sold out and not available at the moment
https://www.cycfi-research.com/product/nu-multi-basic-set/


Offline vanceg

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2017, 07:34:19 PM »
Yes, I have done this comparison with the VG-99.  I wont' be able to get to installing both the Cycfi and GK3 on the same instrument and creating a demo recording for at least the next two months as I will be on tour and not around my workshop at all, but I HOPE to be able to do this at some point. 

I did replace my GK-3 with Cycfi NU pickups and what I found was that the COSM sounds seemed to be a littler "fuller" and "clearer" sounding.  Not surprisingly, the NU pickups seemed to have a wider frequency range.  The COSM sounds just seem a little "bigger".


Mainly using the GK3 for alternate tuning and COSM models with occasional MIDI. Does the increased sound improvement translate in the COSM environment? Has anyone actually run their GK adapted hex into a VG99 or GP10 for COSM comparisons.

My problem - and I accept it's my problem - is I'm in the UK so I'd guess all in it would end up costing me 300 odd quid by the time VAT duty and shipping hit if the base is $200. I was hoping I might be able to get it in around the £200 mark which would make it a viable an interesting alternative,

I'm in the midst of a Rig-life crisis(!) and re-assessing everything I have vs what I actually need

Offline Smash

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 01:54:26 AM »
Had an email from Cycfi and the GK13 unit is not available yet so no idea on pricing.

Offline cags12

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 05:34:24 AM »
Too bad all Cycfi NuPlus divided pickups are currently sold out and not available at the moment
https://www.cycfi-research.com/product/nu-multi-basic-set/

(Image removed from quote.)

I have information that the Nu's will be back in stock by the end of the month so there you go :)

Offline chlorinemist

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin ouptut module for their NU pickups
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2017, 10:30:14 PM »
I have information that the Nu's will be back in stock by the end of the month so there you go :)
Too bad all Cycfi NuPlus divided pickups are currently sold out and not available at the moment
https://www.cycfi-research.com/product/nu-multi-basic-set/

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.cycfi.com/2017/05/nus-4u/
Officially back in stock

Online admsustainiac

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2017, 10:48:35 PM »


Was there a time when one could purchase the 13 pin preamp, ?




http://www.cycfi.com/2015/11/nu-update-meet-the-nexus/

How about the Nexus box ?
I read the blog
http://www.cycfi.com/category/electronics/support-electronics/

and see lots of interesting interfaces
http://www.cycfi.com/category/electronics/support-electronics/
yet none are for sale at the online store
https://www.cycfi-research.com/


 
I understand bulk of the interesting CyCfi hardware is open source -  - but it means its a bit unobtainium - and must be built by hand ?
https://github.com/cycfi
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:05:08 PM by admsustainiac »

Online admsustainiac

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2017, 10:57:23 PM »
http://www.cycfi.com/2017/05/nu-update-roland-13-pin-adaptor/

Cycfi has announced a 13 pin output option for their NU divided pickups.  This allows the NU to be used directly with 13 pin equipped gear. Cycfi has seen fit to support the Normal Guitar input as well as the S1/S2 switch normally associated with the GK series pickups.  So the NU now become a very viable replacement or alternative to the GK-3
I've been using the NU with the VG-99 for a while now and like them significantly more than the GK-3.  Any guitar I would normally consider a GK-3 internal kit for now gets the NU pickups, especially now that there is direct support for 13pin.

Price?

When will it be available?
http://www.cycfi.com/category/electronics/support-electronics/


https://github.com/cycfi
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:04:51 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline chlorinemist

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2017, 11:19:08 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Was there a time when one could purchase the 13 pin preamp, ?


(Image removed from quote.)

How about the Nexus box?
I read the blog
http://www.cycfi.com/category/electronics/support-electronics/

and see lots of interesting interfaces

yet none are for sale at the online store
https://www.cycfi-research.com/


 
I understand bulk of the interesting CyCfi hardware is open source -  - but it means its a bit unobtainium - and must be built by hand ?

(Image removed from quote.)

The 13 pin preamp has not been released yet. It was just announced last month. in my experience though soldering the Nu internal breakout board to a 13 pin jack works just fine. I didn't notice any need for a preamp for it, although I'm sure it will improve performance. I now use a 13 pin out I installed on my Nexus, which has its own buffered preamp circuits. Sound quality is wonderful. Took me about 20 minutes to complete the DIY install, including drilling through the aluminum faceplate.

Nexus is currently available only through contacting them via email. That's how I got mine. I made sure to reserve one just after it was announced though. I'm not certain if they currently have them in stock but if they don't it's definitely just going to be a matter of waiting a few weeks/months for the next batch to come in, just like the deal with the Nu pickups.

I think they don't list these on the official store because they don't want to end up in a situation where they can't scale up to meet demand. At the moment I think Joel is doing Cycfi purely as a passion project, and is keeping the operation from growing too quickly on purpose so he can focus his time and resources on continuing R+D for his Infinity system. I certainly can't criticize him for this strategy considering the fact that their products are consistently extremely well thought-out designs, with few to no flaws or weaknesses. Construction quality is always top notch.
I predict that once the full Infinity ecosystem is 100% complete and ready to go, by which time I imagine many more people will have an understanding and appreciation for the technology than do at the present moment, Cycfi will finally begin focusing on expanding the company, keeping the store stocked with the full line of products, increasing manufacturing output, creating an actual marketing dept, etc.

I personally just ordered and recieved a bunch of Nexus accessories (19 pin jacks, cv pots, cv switch) last month so it's definitely not "unobtainium", even though none of it is listed. LOTS of stuff on the blog has not been released yet and/or is still in the R+D/prototype phase.

Offline chlorinemist

Re: Cycfi Release 13pin output module for their NU pickups
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2017, 11:25:08 PM »
Price?

When will it be available?
http://www.cycfi.com/category/electronics/support-electronics/


https://github.com/cycfi

This is just a guess, but based on the pricing of Cycfi's electronics accessories in general (i've bought basically everything they sell at this point) I predict the price will be in the ~$30 range. $50 at the very maximum, and at that price it would stand out as the only unreasonably priced product in the whole catalogue.