GR-55 - Tracking Solved - No bad notes

Started by Moja, April 25, 2017, 09:40:19 AM

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Elantric

#50
Quote from: snhirsch on April 25, 2017, 06:39:48 PM
The second photo reminds me of the ARP Avatar pickup.

Its the 1969 Hammond Innovex Condor Guitar Synth
https://reverb.com/item/1483687-hammond-innovex-condor-gsm-guitar-synthesizer-1969-redburst
http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4146192-planet-gear--javelin-on-the-hammond-innovex-condor-gsm-guitar-synthesizer


They may share the same pedigree - both designed by folks on  both engineering teams on east coast.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11351.msg82642#msg82642






I love the transport case with integrated stand!





Elantric



New GK-x and GR-55 combination, drastically reduces bad notes, improves tracking, no weird goinky sounds, ...

chrish

Yes it's easy to understand the skepticism however if you read the op's
Post history here you will see that he's always been sharing what he's been working on.

There you'll see lots of tinkering with the GK pick up by an electrical engineer.

carlb

I think there could be a partial divulge of the approach, without giving away the details that took a lot of hard work to achieve ...

If it's what I'm thinking it is, no snake oil. Just good old-fashioned try the approach, iterate, add-ins to cover secondary effects, iterate, etc. In other words, hard work.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

concordal


With respect, this offering is a "pig in a poke."   (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke)

The OP may not be violating the terms of Vguitar forums but is certainly violating the spirit of the forum.  Just compare the OP's approach with any of the other members here who have a product they feel might help others:

  - gumtown offers his editors as shareware.  Try one and (hopefully) contribute something if you like it.   

  - codesmart offers his products on a cost plus basis.  No secret handshake required here. No doubt he'd happily share his circuit design.

  - sixeight offers his product on a cost plus basis and has already offered to share his circuit.

  - gumbo offers his excellent jacks and cables at a reasonable cost.

  - elantric has already shared his circuit for the US-20 embellishments without charge.  And all of his valuable advice is free.

None of these folks are going to get wealthy offering their stuff on the forum.

Now compare this with the OP's approach:  I've solved a problem.  Now how much are you willing to pay to get the solution?    Is this a ginsu knife or are you wanting to share a solution and make a small profit?

Yes, of course you've put in hours of R&D.  Ask yourself how many hours members like ainsoph and Jim Williams and many others have put in developing their patches - which they share at no cost.  Or the hours other members (e.g. shawnb) have spent developing workarounds to problems that they share at no cost.

For goodness sake why not just offer it a reasonable mark-up and post the details of the solution for those that would prefer to DIY.



chrish

#55
That may be true however if this thing works it's the Holy Grail of pitch to MIDI tracking, something that has not yet been achieved.

Lots of folks here support Amazon and that company is not exactly a model worth emulating.

I'm actually more concerned about the use of a like button here at an intelligent website, due to it's brain hacking implications.When I brought up that subject I was told maybe I'd be happy at another website. ;D

Yeah so maybe some electrical engineers are not great communicators, so what? :) :D ;D

Elantric

#56
Quote from: chrish on April 26, 2017, 03:54:53 PM


I'm actually more concerned about the use of a like button here at an intelligent website, due to it's brain hacking implications.When I brought up that subject I was told maybe I'd be happy at another website. ;D


Then the Gear Page's "like"s  must give you migraines . .
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24007345/

Again - "likes" were added in response due to numerous requests for this feature by many other VGuitarForums member's.

It generates zero revenue for VGuitarforums. 

There are no pop up advertising or Monetization based upon "likes" here.

I suppose we could change that ?

tbeltrans

I must say that the two videos sound quite promising.  All I can do is monitor this thread waiting for some information that I can do something with.  When that happens, I will be able to decide what I might want to do.

Thanks,

Tony

carlb

#58
I'd really like to see to see this product, I need it. Otherwise, use of alternate tunings, twelve-strings, and polyphonic synth from the GP-10 is pretty limited.

He's not going to make a killing at these.

As far as 'open-sourcing' code or electronic designs, we don't expect that of Roland/Boss, FTP, EHX, etc. Some guys are OK with it, others want to keep their designs closer to the chest. No problem either way that I see.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

aliensporebomb

Interesting demo. 

Is this just for GR-55 (purpose built for that device only) or is it designed to work with other 13-pin devices?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

alexmcginness

Quote from: carlb on April 26, 2017, 08:00:48 PM
I'd really like to see to see this product, I need it. Otherwise, use of alternate tunings, twelve-strings, and polyphonic synth from the GP-10 is pretty limited.

Im still finding that warbles are guitar dependent for me and the guitar Im having issues with it on only has the warbles on my A string open 1st second and third frets in the GP 10. Im still using my VG-99 for live work though and any patches Ive gotten to like in the GP 10 ive duplicated over.
   Now this "fix" for the tracking sounds great. Id like to see it and if it works good, could be the fix for my Axon AX100MKII as well as I find that glitchy too. If this "fix" is low cost then that, along with my Axon would be a good enough alternative to a Fishman TP for me as I wouldnt have to have two seperate pickups on my guitars. Lest see what it is and if it works and how much it will cost. If its a workable solution Im in.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

DreamTheory

#61
$100, maybe.

After that, I start thinking about other stuff I could buy.
Is there a satisfaction guarantee?

I'd like to see what it looks like, how it mounts, or does it go with the floor unit? What sort of controls/knobs does it have?

It is very hard to evaluate without knowing more.

It may also be that it is worth doing for other benefits besides cash. The gratitude and admiration of fellow v guitarists. Knowing that you created a solution that will unlock people's potential. You might even single handedly revive 13 pin technology. Get hits on your site?
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

chrish

#62
Quote from: Elantric on April 26, 2017, 04:21:15 PM
Then the Gear Page's "like"s  must give you migraines . .
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24007345/

Again - "likes" were added in response due to numerous requests for this feature by many other VGuitarForums member's.

It generates zero revenue for VGuitarforums. 

There are no pop up advertising or Monetization based upon "likes" here.

I suppose we could change that ?
I don't read the Gear Page except for the link that you posted.

My objection to the use of likes here is more of an ethical objection because it's part of a culture designed to keep people addicted to a particular internet format where the goal is advertising dollars.

From what I understand vguitar forum is entirely community supported, correct? In other words there is no advertising here other than  members selling gear, correct?

But like I said that's not the point. The point is that by using a like button, as opposed to a helpful button, imo. vguitar forum is participating in the furtherance of that purposely designed addictive internet culture.

But hey it's your website. And no it doesn't keep me up at night, doesn't worry me and it doesn't give me migraines, however it does concern me and it's part of my nature to voice concerns.

"Anderson Cooper: Is Silicon Valley programming apps or are they programming people?

snapchat.jpg
Tristan Harris: Inadvertently, whether they want to or not, they are shaping the thoughts and feelings and actions of people. They are programming people. There's always this narrative that technology's neutral. And it's up to us to choose how we use it. This is just not true.

Anderson Cooper: Technology's not neutral?

Tristan Harris: It's not neutral. They want you to use it in particular ways..."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/brain-hacking-tech-insiders-60-minutes/

"


Magiamusical

I have seen in facebook and here Moja asking how much you will pay, but its very difficult to guess a price to pay if I don't know what is the solution, we can only guess what its. I notice that there are 2 extra footswitches in Moja's video, Is it internal, or is it a an external box. I'm willing to pay but I need to know what i'm paying for.
Godin LGXT, Les Paul Studio w/GK3, JTV89F w/GK3, GR-55

Elantric

Quote
New GK-x and GR-55 combination, drastically reduces bad notes, improves tracking, no weird goinky sounds, ...

Based on the "GK-X" name on the youtube video - my "hunch"?



Moja's  item for sale will be a new "GK-X" preamp board that is optimized and replaces the existing GK-3 PCB  - but fits inside the GK-3 Controller housing.

   




tbeltrans

This is getting just plain silly.  The OP should tell us what we would be paying money for, before asking us how much value we put on the thing.  This reminds me of the kids' game in which one kid cups his hands near his face saying "guess what I've got", and the other kids start guessing.  It is pointless.  This thread is going on and on with the guessing.  why?  If we stop playing, then that forces the OP to either provide enough information for people to answer his question as to value of his product or go away and leave it at that.

Tony


Beirne

The OP is trying to get a sense of what the market will bear for this thing. Thats fair.
Heres my 2cents...
A GK pickup costs around $200-300. GR55 is around another $600.
Lots of midi sounds are unusable because of squeaks and crosstalk.
Something that fixes that would be worth spending another 300 on. Or if less and I would buy more than one.
www.intangiblesny.com
www.facebook.com/intangiblesband

Elantric

#67
Or spend $200 for a used GR-33 that tracks Guitar to PCM  3 times  better than GR-55

You are fooling yourself If you think the GR- 55 is the "pinnacle" and best version "  guitar to PCM  box they ever made, (it's not btw) you have a lesson to be learned

tbeltrans

Quote from: Beirne on April 28, 2017, 01:54:27 PM
The OP is trying to get a sense of what the market will bear for this thing. Thats fair.
Heres my 2cents...
A GK pickup costs around $200-300. GR55 is around another $600.
Lots of midi sounds are unusable because of squeaks and crosstalk.
Something that fixes that would be worth spending another 300 on. Or if less and I would buy more than one.

It sounds REALLY odd to me that if I buy a $600 device, that I should have to spend another $300 on it to "fix" it.  Maybe I am weird in thinking that if I spent that much on a device that I would expect it to work.

Also, how can I know how much I would spend on something that I have no idea of what it actually is?

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on what we think is "fair" or "right" or whatever.  we disagree on both points.  But, then maybe I am the one going crazy and all of this is perfectly sane?   I suspect we two are from different generations with differing value systems.  That would explain things to me, anyway.

Tony


alexmcginness

#69
Quote from:  Elantric
Maybe if he throws in a Popeil pocket fisherman, a snaffler and a Mr microphone.

LMAO. But wait!!!! Buy now and we will send you not one but two!!!  ( Just pay separate shipping and handling. )

On a serious note, here's what I think the best approach would be. Make a unit and figure out what it costs. Stick up a picture, a demo vid of it doing its thing, and a price for making one for you or a kit. This " what would you be willing to pay approach is like buying and selling at the same time. I dont like doing that. Cost it out and figure out what you think your time is worth to make them and let us know. Easy peasy...
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

carlb

#70
To the skeptical, I'll try to explain my perspective.

Yes, ideally Boss/Roland should not have the problems they do with warbling pitch-shifts and garbled synth lines. But they do, and they're not going to fix that. I already own their equipment, and it's an integral part of my rig. I play pit bands for musicals and jazz ensembles mainly, where a compact rig which simulates many instruments, has multiple effects, and has programmable patches is key. Really good alternate tunings and well-tracked synth or PCM sounds would be superb to add to my setup.

I don't like the Roland-ready Strats. Maybe I just have a bad R-R strat copy, but I have two guitars with RMC hex PUs and Seymour Duncan that I just work better with. I don't like what the Antares system does to my output, it's just odd output and limited in the models it provides, and has no effects or amps either.

Having a EE and communications electronics background, I think I have a pretty good idea what Moju is proposing. Not the form-factor, but the approach. If it's what I think it is, just sound engineering work on top of a good approach. As far as I can tell, he's trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to work out the production details and cost-per-unit. Or, unfortunately if there's little chance he could build units with the features people want for what people are willing to pay for them. No pig-in-pokes, no fleecing folks for maximum profit that I see.

I hope to see him produce a great working product. I need it, as long as I can work with the form factor and inputs/outputs.

If you don't need this product, fine. If you don't like that fact that he's not going "open-source" his solution, that's great. That's a good data point. So is mine. I'm very likely a good example of his target audience with an idea of what I'd likely pay for something with these core features. And not have to try to develop the darned thing myself, I have too many other things on my plate.

- Carl
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

tbeltrans

#71
As I said in my first post in this thread, it is a Catch-22 situation.  We don't really know what the product is.  Maybe some here feel they have an accurate guess, but even at its best, we are not yet dealing with fact.  I don't think anyone is being fleeced, but I can't really say what I will or won't buy until I know what I am buying.

I have the OPT-1 installed in my GR-55, since the guitar I have to use with it is the Godin ACS SA nylon string.  It seems to work rather well in general, with the exception of a couple of specific sounds.  So, when this product is revealed, I will be weighing its merits against what I already have.

What might be a reasonable idea is what we typically did in engineering environments- sign up beta testers who have signed an NDA (non-disclosure agreement, for non-engineering types).  If there are a number of people who have tested the product, folks people know in these forums and trust for their proven technical experience, who say the product works really and can state whether the product installs inside the guitar or the GR-55, or is an external box to give folks some idea of form factor, maybe there can be some credence lent to it. 

As to establishing price, we know what devices that attempt to address these problems cost.  There have been external boxes as well as internal install boards.  How does this product's cost to build compare with these?  Maybe the OP can contact some of the folks who developed these to get an idea of the pricing strategy they used.  I just can't see how asking potential customers what they would pay for a product that they can't know anything about.

If there have been several products made available to address these problems and it is felt that these really didn't do the job, requiring the need for yet another such product, how do we really know it is so much better than what is already available.  The demo videos for some of these other products were certainly just as compelling as the videos for this one.

Historically, whenever somebody comes up with something new to solve a problem, the response is ALWAYS "show me".  It seems really and truly odd to me that such a response is not deemed acceptable here.  It is human nature to be skeptical of something new and unseen.  That skepticism does not necessarily mean that folks think the OP is lying or fleecing anybody.  We just don't have any solid information to have a rational discussion about the product.

As I said in my previous post, it seems VERY strange to me to consider it normal that if you pay $600 for a product, you would expect to pay another $300 to get it to work properly, or that we should be able to determine how much a product we know nothing about is worth to us.  I am baffled by these ideas, and am guessing that it is different thinking by a different generation.  I am 64 this year, and I grew in a world of "show me the money" (i.e. be ready to prove any claims) and if you buy a product, you expect it to function as advertised (value for money spent).  Maybe one or more of the generations that came later think differently, I don't know.

Tony


gumtown

I still have no idea what is on offer,
but it does remind me of this..
;D

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

whippinpost91850

#73
I agree with this approach, but if we keep deriding and trying to derail what this guy may have come up with, he will just tell us to go f**k ourselves and just leave. 
Let's try and be a little more civil like this forum usually is  and see what this guy comes up with, maybe we'll all Benefit

Just trying to be the voice of reason here

whippinpost91850