Author Topic: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor  (Read 15452 times)

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Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2017, 06:19:28 AM »
Do let me know if there's also a mistake in https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/tables/amp-types.md then.

Offline snhirsch

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2017, 10:46:01 AM »
Unless there's an error in the GT-001/GT-100 MIDI spec or an actual firmware difference between those products and Katana, your listing looks right.  My ears tell me that Acoustic is a flat-response preamp, but I'll re-check this evening.

Offline aliendough

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #152 on: May 19, 2017, 12:38:52 PM »
Gumtown, thank you so much for this wonderful piece of software.  I don't own the Katana or GT100, but I do own the GT-001 and the GT-1.  I can now look at any patch and get an idea of how the EQ is set and convert this to my GT-001 or GT-1.  You are very smart for figuring this out!


Offline admsustainiac

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #153 on: May 23, 2017, 12:18:24 PM »
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24179826/

I finally found a bit of time to play with the floorboard app. Custom amps are very nice. I don't recall the exact settings I used, but with a Custom based on the Crunch channel, and settings vaguely like the below, I got something that does a pretty good cranked small tweed imitation. I could probably get closer with an actual A/B comparison, but I really just want to evoke the feel and this is close enough for my ear.

Gain: 2-3 o'clock
Amp EQ: lots of mids.
Presence: I think I have it at 0.

Custom: Crunch
Bottom end: -10
Edge: -20, I think.
Pre treble and bass at 0.
Character at +10.

I can't get T-comp to stick (it reverts to 0 after saving), and it could use a bit more sag, but even so, it feels reasonably appropriate. Could always play with Compressor attack values.

I wasn't quite as happy with my squeaky clean Fender attempt, but I'll give it a go against Amplitube's Super Reverb at some point and see if I can get there.

Offline Beanow


Offline admsustainiac

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #155 on: May 23, 2017, 01:06:06 PM »
But when adjusting T-Comp, does it actually apply an audible change in Katana tone or feel ( as adjusting T-Comp on the GP-10 does?) 


Others report T-Comp setting DOES make a difference on some Katana Sneaky Amp models

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24180722/
Quote
It's hard to say definitively because it's fairly subtle, but it's a solid maybe. It may vary by model too. I felt like the difference was more obvious with the Plexi model than the custom crunch, for instance. It feels more like a compressor than a sag control, though, to the extent that they're different. I hear more of a response time delay with a Tweed Deluxe, and t-comp doesn't seem to do that.

I might pop a looper in front to twiddle the knob with a steady signal, but I don't think I'll be able to do that for a while because it sounds like work.

Quote
When adjusting T-Comp on the Custom amp, I'm sure I was hearing a change, but same as nonsense mentioned, it was reverting back to zero after saving.


« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 02:28:02 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline snhirsch

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #156 on: May 23, 2017, 02:47:53 PM »
That's not a bug. T-Comp is disabled in firmware.
https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/tables/patch-capabilities.md#sysex-patch-blocks

I'm not 100% convinced that it's disabled.  It isn't being saved and restored, but I can swear I hear it doing something when manually set from FxFloorboard.  Certainly this could be wishful thinking on my part.

Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #157 on: May 23, 2017, 03:00:33 PM »
I find it really hard to tell the difference in sound. Not sure what I'm looking for even.
For the GT-100 for example:

https://youtu.be/p5WYmNuO0WM?t=3m39s


The firmware however looks absolutely fixed in this.



Write a 0 value into panel T-Comp (0 corresponds with -20 T-Comp):
 >| Katana Command #[60 00 00 53] length(1), data = 00

Note: this is with BTS mode on, and there is no confirmation of a change. Normally this would be reported.

Query the current panel T-Comp value:
 >| Katana Query   #[60 00 00 53] length(1)
|<  Katana Command #[60 00 00 53] length(1), data = 0A

Result is 0x0A = +0 T-Comp value

Write a 127 value into panel T-Comp (beyond maximum value, other parameters normally jump to their max value this way):
 >| Katana Command #[60 00 00 53] length(1), data = 7F

Again, no change reported with BTS mode on.

Query the current panel T-Comp value:
 >| Katana Query   #[60 00 00 53] length(1)
|<  Katana Command #[60 00 00 53] length(1), data = 0A

Result is 0x0A = +0 T-Comp value


I have a looper available, so what sort of effect *should* it have?
Should it just do flat compression?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 03:23:23 PM by Beanow »

Offline admsustainiac

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #158 on: May 23, 2017, 03:08:22 PM »
Quote
I find it really hard to tell the difference in sound. Not sure what I'm looking for even.




Changing the "T-Comp" parameter impacts the feel / squish  / compression of the current Amp model

you will only feel the impact  of T-Comp change under the fingers - and not hear the difference of T-Comp change in a recording or Youtube demo.

It make a difference on Boss Gear that supports "T-Comp" ( Boss GP-10, GT-001, GT-100 Version 2)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 03:22:14 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #159 on: May 23, 2017, 07:53:29 PM »
This thing was getting more mythical by the day.
My post here should clear it up http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21018.0

Using cancellation to find if T-Comb changes my loop, I found:

Conclusion

The T-Comp parameter definitely does nothing.
If you don't believe waveforms, I've exported the original recordings and the canceled mixes, feel free to listen for yourself.

For clarity, all these files in order look like this:

  • TCompTest-Plexi-Full.flac
  • TCompTest-Plexi-PresenceMidCanceled.flac
  • TCompTest-Plexi-TCompCanceled.flac
  • TCompTest-Tweed-Full.flac
  • TCompTest-Tweed-MODCompCanceled.flac
  • TCompTest-Tweed-TCompCanceled.flac
(Image removed from quote.)

Downloads over IPFS https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmdTdJ38Yej9AVvbVw5UqPYFWsRA6Hr7gqr1XE112no71f
Mirror on MediaFire http://www.mediafire.com/file/8g4bfo3c2jrxqsc/TCompTest.zip

Offline snhirsch

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #160 on: May 24, 2017, 06:08:30 AM »
Changing the "T-Comp" parameter impacts the feel / squish  / compression of the current Amp model

you will only feel the impact  of T-Comp change under the fingers - and not hear the difference of T-Comp change in a recording or Youtube demo.

Exactly.  I appreciate Robin's efforts to quantify the situation, but am not completely convinced the approach used would necessary flag what T-Comp does.   A better test might be to drive the preamp into clip with a tone-burst generator and watch the leading part of the output waveform with a scope as the T-Comp control is rotated. 

Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #161 on: May 24, 2017, 06:55:17 AM »
Replied there not to stray off topic too much here.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21018.msg151249#msg151249

Offline October3

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #162 on: May 24, 2017, 07:51:19 AM »
Gents, any word on a floorboard update? I have forgone boss tone studio and using 16th may version of floorboard

yours appreciatively  ;)

Offline admsustainiac

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #163 on: May 24, 2017, 08:28:21 AM »
Gents, any word on a floorboard update? I have forgone boss tone studio and using 16th may version of floorboard

yours appreciatively  ;)

Click here for downloads  and read the latest release notes
https://sourceforge.net/projects/fxfloorboard/files/experimental/

Most recent release is 11 hours old

Offline October3

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #164 on: May 24, 2017, 02:08:39 PM »
perfect timing, thank you  :)

Offline kneagle

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #165 on: June 02, 2017, 10:45:50 AM »
bump

Does anyone know if the Master, EZ-Tone, Knob Panel, or System buttons serve any useful function with the Katana? How about the Patch clipboards or the Bulk Write button?

Offline gumtown

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #166 on: June 02, 2017, 04:52:47 PM »


Quote
Does anyone know if the Master, EZ-Tone, Knob Panel, or System buttons serve any useful function with the Katana? How about the Patch clipboards or the Bulk Write button?

They are all useful functions,
Master also does the master key for the harmonizer.
EZ-Tone is a tool for creating new tones by selecting a music type and using the X-Y pad to 'draw' your tone.
Knob Panel only reads the current status of the Katana knobs, but even the Katana does not know where they are set at until they are moved.
System is all the global settings in the Katana.

The Patch Clipboards are used to store a patch (5 of them) and specific effect parts on each effect edit page can be pasted into you current patch workings.

The Bulk Write is used to write the same edit page settings to other channels.

Still a work in progress,
I am currently working on pairing the Katana FxFloorBoard and PatchLoader softwares with 16 Assigns (8 global and 8 patch), it is proving rather difficult.
Lots of other bits are getting tidied up too, but will be a while before any update is released.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Offline kneagle

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #167 on: June 02, 2017, 07:13:48 PM »
Thanks Gumtown

Offline CodeSmart

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Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #168 on: June 06, 2017, 06:01:59 PM »
Hey Gummie,
Do think you could limit the traffic a bit unless you're not connected directly to the "KATANA" MIDI IN/OUT?
With MIDX-20 V2 it's possible to hot-swap the Katana Bridge on/off allowing your Floorboard to talk to the Katana through the MIDX (via UM-ONE) while tweaking the sounds and then enable the bridge again (via MIDX Assistant PC software)  to make the footswitches etc. working. It's like an iteration before everything falls into place. I've just used my SoftStep2 to control the amp via my bridge and your Floorboard to tweak settings, without swapping any cables. Great combo.

However the Floorboard has problems getting the patch dumps from the Katana through the MIDX because the MIDX buffers can't hold the amount of data you request through it. I tried to increase buffers but won't help, there's not enough SRAM. I'm pretty sure it would work gracefully if you requested smaller portions and waited for it until requesting a new block. Ideally for the MIDX you would not exceed 310 bytes bulks.

You think it's possible?
Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #169 on: June 07, 2017, 05:50:46 AM »
However the Floorboard has problems getting the patch dumps from the Katana through the MIDX because the MIDX buffers can't hold the amount of data you request through it. I tried to increase buffers but won't help, there's not enough SRAM. I'm pretty sure it would work gracefully if you requested smaller portions and waited for it until requesting a new block. Ideally for the MIDX you would not exceed 310 bytes bulks.

You think it's possible?

That's an interesting point you bring up. I should keep that in mind as well.
Can you share some specs as to how much your buffers can hold?

I assume the same will apply for writing patches to the Katana, do you get any writing issues using the patch loader?

The simplest way to request a full patch is to start at the first address like 60 00 00 00 and query for 2327 bytes.
The Katana will split that into a series of 255 byte responses (241 bytes of effective data). Which is less than 2327 bytes, but will cover all relevant patch data, plus irrelevant stuff such as disabled features and the text areas. It is a good starting point none the less for getting the patches fast, because doing "round trips" waiting for responses the latency begins to add up.

Doing slower queries is certainly doable. I did this when I made a script to scan the entire address range. You limit the query to request for example 241 bytes (to keep it in one 255 byte message). Then wait for the response and send another 241 query at the next offset. In a loop, until you have the range you need. It gives a bit of implementation overhead though, because you need to do more async programming, tracking state of your queries and possibly deal with new race conditions. Similarly you could space out your queries with a fixed delay. Letting you write slightly simpler code, but is likely to give you sub-optimal throughput.

Either way, in this scenario any extra throughput the MIDX can offer helps to reduce issues. Sysex does not need to be complete from F0 to F7 as by definition any MIDI library that puts Sysex messages in a data structure of sorts must implement buffers, so any chance you get to flush data faster would help.

Offline CodeSmart

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Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #170 on: June 07, 2017, 03:18:51 PM »
Can you share some specs as to how much your buffers can hold?

The high level circular routing buffers are only 310 bytes. Normally this is not a problem as things goes out almost at the same speed as things go in. However in this case the USB seems to be faster than the UART so the problem is building up. My thinking was that the software could detect if a native Katana is connected and use a fast method and if not, use a more careful approach.

The GP-10 Floorboard seems to work thru the MIDX (however just a bit slower than when directly connected).

If message transactions were kept to 256 bytes each there would be absolutely no problem. I understand it would slow down things a bit.

Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Offline Beanow

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #171 on: June 09, 2017, 04:20:26 AM »
The high level circular routing buffers are only 310 bytes.
...
If message transactions were kept to 256 bytes each there would be absolutely no problem. I understand it would slow down things a bit.

That's indeed not a lot of room for anything besides splitting queries into 241 byte regions.
And syncing up the transfer speeds is probably not worth the effort as more people are bound to run into the same problems.

My thinking was that the software could detect if a native Katana is connected and use a fast method and if not, use a more careful approach.

I would stay clear of detections like that and put a throttling option in the connection settings. You never know what other scenarios the slow approach might provide a solution for.
But I figure you could do detection based on the USB device ID or MIDI port name. I'm not sure it adds anything worthwhile over the setting. Anyway I'll leave that up to gumtown.
For the library a parameter is the only alternative anyway since the MIDI layer is left up to the implementing software. The library only tells it what to send and interprets.

Offline October3

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2017, 04:50:30 AM »
Gents, will it be possible to use floorboard software to assign the amp style set-points too, and change the power control from 50watt to 25watt (ie like the smaller katana)

Or are these locked out in the actual firmware?


Offline gumtown

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #173 on: June 09, 2017, 05:25:36 AM »
Gents, will it be possible to use floorboard software to assign the amp style set-points too, and change the power control from 50watt to 25watt (ie like the smaller katana)

Or are these locked out in the actual firmware?

The power control is an analog hardware feature of the amp, and is beyond the control of the firmware.

If you want to limit the output to the speaker, a simple alternative is to connect a low wattage 60 or 120 volt filament lamp in series with the speaker.
 The lamp will light under higher power and increase the lamp resistance and limit the power to the speaker.
A similar approach is used on high powered horn drivers to enable compression at excessive high power to protect the driver.
the higher the voltage or lower wattage lamp cause more of a power limit.

A power soak box/resistor would also work.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Offline admsustainiac

Re: Gumtown's Katana FxFloorBoard Editor
« Reply #174 on: June 09, 2017, 05:27:19 AM »
Katana Master Volume and Power Mode and AC Mains Power on/off switch are not addressable or capable of being memorized  / recalled.

these are manual functions

 

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