Need help on - GP10 patch volume management

Started by Raj MK, February 19, 2017, 05:42:35 PM

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Raj MK

Recently was on a gig and noticed the way i setup patch, the volume is varying too much between patches - following is my sample effect chain
Modelling > FX > NS > Amp (Full Range) > Delay / Reverb > Out to JC120 amp..

I see the level parameter is available across all effects and grand patch level also - i am very confused to arrive at a right setting.. I believe i messed it up adjusting the levels across effects. Finally I was thinking to use decibel app to measure the output level is same.

Couple of questions:
1) What is the standard method for volume management (to keep volume between patches even) - AMP (Full Range), JC-120, Patch volume level then we have D level, E level?
2) On what basis the levels on each effect is adjusted - the ac-nylon level 80 is not same as OD-Distortion level 80

Please advise - urgent.. Thanks..

Brak(E)man

I don't know what the standard method are but I would use a daw and check the input meters , and your ears.

Both played alone but more importantly in a song setting.

The Db level is only a part. How we hear the sound and the loudness are based. On many more factors , some are psychoacoustic.

And I don't know if there's a general basis for levels.
I use it so there's not internal distortion and that it sounds the way I want it.

I use the patch volume to balance the patches.
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gumtown

I usually setup one good "standard" patch, the regular one that you use most of the time.
Then at a gig level, preferably mixed with the rest of the band, set the levels/tone on your other patches,
and return back to your "standard" patch as a level reference to match the level of your other patches.

You can use a VU meter,
but I find levels for different songs should not be the same as other patches,
so your ears tell the best level.

I will generally use the master patch level to set the correct level.
If the patch level is way out different, then look at amp gain/level, and effect levels.
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Majiken

Hi, I address this as follows: When working on presets, I take the GP10 outputs into a mixing board set totally flat with a good set of level LEDs; that runs into the speakers I use most often (RCF Art 710), which face me. My reference patch is the one I use most often, so I set the final output level of the other patches to match that.

For me it is critical to be able to have both my main speakers facing me so I know the sound the audience will hear as well as the visual level, which does not lie (we all know that a distorted sound is perceived by many to be louder than clean due to the reduced dynamics).

IMHO, there is no hard and fast rule for the level of individual parameters, as their adjustment has a fundamental impact on the sound (as does the instrument used and playing style, like pick vs. fingers)- that's why it's important to listen to the effect of the adjustments you make. I start with the base sound, no FX- I dial that in, then add as I go. Watch the meters the whole time, then you can see when the volume swells or goes down noticeably, especially when you kick FX in or out.  Aim for the strongest signal without unwanted distortion... when I am happy with the overall sound of my patch, I level it using "patch volume" on the mixer to the other patches- this is like a master volume and has the least affect on the sound.

This method takes a lot of upfront effort, but with the advantage that I can play everything from mandolin to electric bass with the same level going to FOH and a sound I know is going to be minimally okay wherever I go. A bit long-winded, but I hope this helps.

PS: I recommend using a low-cut as steep and high as possible without affecting the sound you are going after- this will save a lot of headache and give more headroom. And know your place in the mix- a good bottom end on a solo acoustic guitar will quite possibly intrude on bass guitar, toms or keyboards in a band context...
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

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Raj MK

Thank you for all your replies... will nail down further as suggested..

beatpete

Also for me, because I use Patch Volume on my GK volume control, I even out patch volumes using the amp master rather than patch level so my patch level now becomes a master for all patches.