Katana - Add 5pin DIN MIDI Control to Katana Combo Amps.

Started by Elantric, November 21, 2016, 12:02:53 AM

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Elantric

#25
Quote
Somebody will have to open up their Katana combo and make the same picture.

If you currently own a Katana 100 watt Combo - and take it apart   - and compare the bottom of the PCB to the pic of the Katana Head above, it should become clear which parts are missing on the Combo.


Don't bother with the katana 50 - that uses a completely different PC board

This is a work in progress

vtgearhead

I will try to find a few minutes to take mine apart and get a photo.  Once we figure out what's physically missing, I'm hoping someone with a head can read off the parts or measure the values.

admin

#27
Nothing more than what is already posted
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19575.msg145819#msg145819

Its a lot of work, and the SMD parts are beyond the skill level of many folks here.

sixeight

#28
Quote from:  philjynx on October 04, 2017, 06:45:36 AM
Has anyone established the values of the missing parts for MIDI DIN?

Comparing the photo to the schematic of other Roland devices gives the following parts:

L3 and L15: for EMI suppression : could be FBMA-10-160808-601T. Could be shorted as well. I do not see the need as the input is already protected by the optocoupler.
R37 120 ohms
R36 100 ohms
R38 1k5
R32 100 ohms
D4 can be skipped or can be any type of diode (1SS387 on other Roland devices)
C55 100nF ( 0.1uF)  (can be skipped)
C25 100nF ( 0.1uF) (can be skipped)
The optocoupler has already been identified by Elantric (PC410)

QuoteIts a lot of work, and the SMD parts are beyond the skill level of most folks here.

I really don't like soldering SMD parts, but I have managed to do it recently. Need better tools to do a really good job.

Here is the schematic I used for comparison. It has different part numbers from the Katana :


vtgearhead

Quote from: sixeight on October 04, 2017, 08:08:34 AM
L3 and L15: for EMI suppression : could be FBMA-10-160808-601T. Could be shorted as well. I do not see the need as the input is already protected by the optocoupler.

The chokes are not just for damage protection.  It's possible for detected RF to become garbage data at the output of the opto-isolator.  I would suggest they not be considered optional.

sixeight

#30
Quote from: snhirsch on October 04, 2017, 09:47:20 AM
The chokes are not just for damage protection.  It's possible for detected RF to become garbage data at the output of the opto-isolator.  I would suggest they not be considered optional.

Midi is low impedance (220 ohms)
I guess Roland needs them to pass the RF tests. I have used midi circuits without them for years and never had any problems with RF.

admin

#31
Quote from: sixeight on October 04, 2017, 09:52:33 AM
Midi is low impedance (220 ohms)
I guess Roland needs them to pass the RF tests. I have but midi circuits without them for years and never had any problems with RF.

They exist to Pass FCC Class B RF Emissions
https://www.emcfastpass.com/emc-testing-beginners-guide/emissions/
https://www.emcfastpass.com/blog/
https://www.slideshare.net/kyawshein3/fcc-regulatory-overview-54894913

Elantric

#32
Quote from: snhirsch on October 04, 2017, 09:47:20 AM
The chokes are not just for damage protection.  It's possible for detected RF to become garbage data at the output of the opto-isolator.  I would suggest they not be considered optional.

Indeed - if only Fender R&D understood the importance of this , perhaps their Mustang Amps would be more robust, and not randomly change patches each time a stage strobe light triggers when their 4 button foot pedal is connected with a 20 ft cable

The Katana EMI Filters on MIDI  Input circuit (L3, L15) are KingCore PN# FBMA-10-160808-601T  Multilayer Ferrite Bead in SMD0603 package, 600 ohm Impedance @ 100MHz, 0.6 DC Ohms, 200mA Rating.

http://www.kingcore.com/eng/upload/FBM-10-160808.pdf?time=20130413072330

several alternatives are here
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/filters/ferrite-beads-and-chips/841?k=&pkeyword=&pv1233=50&FV=ffe00349&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25






Suitable Alternate

Murata PN# BLM18HG601SN1D FERRITE BEAD 600 OHM 0603 1LN



https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics-north-america/BLM18HG601SN1D/490-1033-2-ND/584244







and remember to clip off DIN 5 right angle female receptacle PCB mount Pins #1, and #3 to fit the Boss Katana PCB 



Elantric

#33
QuoteTo that end I've just ordered a USB host circuit and will (when it finishes sauntering its way to me from China) incorporate that into my midi controller.

Just remember that 90% of those WILL NOT WORK WITH ROLAND /BOSS GEAR

Details

USB Host to 5pin MIDI Converters
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.msg112535#msg112535

USB Host to 5pin MIDI Converters  - Which ones works with Roland / Boss gear?

* Raspberry PI $35 + Generic USB to MIDI cable ($15)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0

* Primova MIDX-10
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15758.0


* Primova MIDX-20
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17561.0

*Android 6.01 ( or newer) tablets and smartphones +USB OTG adapter+ + Generic USB to MIDI cable


Elantric

#34
Quote from:  philjynx on October 04, 2017, 11:56:47 AM
It's not a 5 pin to usb thingy, it's a USB host 'shield'. In theory at least, it should present itself like the usb socket on a PC.

https://store.arduino.cc/usa/arduino-usb-host-shield

It still requires the target OS you intend to use ( RPI, BeagleBone Linux, etc) supports  Linux ALSA audio  / MIDI  - as that supports Roland / Boss gear.

The typical Arduino with above USB Host Shield will not recognize the Roland / Boss gear

sixeight

QuoteThe typical Arduino with above USB Host Shield will not recognize the Roland / Boss gear

There are some current developments that show the Arduino USB host library does work with Roland/Boss gear:

The ms-3 is working: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21864.msg156460#msg156460

And so is the GP10: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17866.msg147690#msg147690

With current updates to the USB Arduino library, also sysex messages seem to be working okay. So I would not be surprised if other devices like the Katana work as well...

Elantric

Its a changing world  - because Arduino's used to have a battle with Roland/ Boss gear 

Suggest follow member MrHaroldA's progress with an Arduino based USB Host to MIDI adapter for Boss MS-3

Boss MS-3 - MIDI over USB Sysex Reverse Engineering
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21864.0

GuitarPhil

I just got my new BOSS Katana 100 1x12 this week and it has the 5-pin MIDI In already fitted - Happy Days  :)

That was a nice surprise for me so now maybe I can use my FCB1010 Footcontroller but I already bought the GA-FC!

Phil.

vtgearhead

Quote from: GuitarPhil on November 16, 2017, 08:27:43 AM
I just got my new BOSS Katana 100 1x12 this week and it has the 5-pin MIDI In already fitted - Happy Days  :)

That was a nice surprise for me so now maybe I can use my FCB1010 Footcontroller but I already bought the GA-FC!

Say, what???  You have a combo model with MIDI 5-pin?  Photo please?

admin

Quote from: GuitarPhil on November 16, 2017, 08:27:43 AM
I just got my new BOSS Katana 100 1x12 this week and it has the 5-pin MIDI In already fitted - Happy Days  :)

That was a nice surprise for me so now maybe I can use my FCB1010 Footcontroller but I already bought the GA-FC!

Phil.

Pics????

Was this purchased new or used?

mchad

Quote from: GuitarPhil on November 16, 2017, 08:27:43 AM
I just got my new BOSS Katana 100 1x12 this week and it has the 5-pin MIDI In already fitted - Happy Days  :)

That was a nice surprise for me so now maybe I can use my FCB1010 Footcontroller but I already bought the GA-FC!

Phil.

Where's that popcorn eating emoji?

GuitarPhil

 :'(
Sorry I got excited when I was reading the manual - I missed the 'Head only' icon - boo hoo.

You guys will think I'm stupid - and you'd be right - I should have looked at the back of the amp LOL

Phil

KeldAmpworks

Quote from: Elantric on November 22, 2016, 10:05:57 AM
(The Katana 50 appears to be a different animal with less features  and smaller PCB boards.)


Hey Elantric - what makes you think that? I just had mine in bits and it looks to have the same PCB as yours, with spaces for a GA FC socket and midi. I'm minded to try a cheeky mod. :)

Is there a katana mod thread? I couldn't find one.

Cheers,

Elantric

#43
Quote from: KeldAmpworks (bassetrox) on January 09, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
Hey Elantric - what makes you think that? I just had mine in bits and it looks to have the same PCB as yours, with spaces for a GA FC socket and midi. I'm minded to try a cheeky mod. :)

Is there a katana mod thread? I couldn't find one.

Cheers,

Post pics!

this thread was close to being a Katana  mod thread  - before the photobucket  /snapagogo pics all vanished ;)

KeldAmpworks

#44
EDIT: Lets see if I can get this right, I don't use forums much! :)

Two shots of the missing sockets on my Katana 50.



And a bit of screenprint detailing the Ass'y documents - it appears that these boards all use this PCB.


More pics on http://www.ampworks.co.uk/experiments/boss-katana-mod-midi-mod-rec-mod/

KeldAmpworks

I've started a separate thread concerning a rec out mod for anyone who's interested.

SteveO

I don't have much experience SMD soldering and don't like doing it much. I'm thinking that someone could minimize the number of connections to the Boss circuit board by building the MIDI in circuit on the bottom in a separate box/board and wire pin 6 from the 6n138 to the place on the Boss circuit board where the PC410 pin 5 normally connects. You'd have to secure the wire so it doesn't get pulled off the pad on the board. Then you'd need to find someplace to get 5v and ground, hopefully, somewhere a little larger than the pads where PC410 pins 4 and 6 connect. I don't know where that would be. Seems like it might be a three-wire modification on the amp side unless I'm missing something.


Pictured: PC410 on left, 6n138 on right, MIDI in on the bottom.