You're Gonna' Want to Get Yourself a Hardware Synth for the FTP

Started by Rhcole, June 23, 2014, 04:29:21 PM

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Rhcole

I broke down and bought the FTP, putting it on my Cort "firewood special" guitar. Setup was straightforward if a bit tedious, although Fishman's software downloads were a royal pain in the butt.
No worries, I don't care about any software other than the TP software anyway. I already own various software bundles and hardware synths.

Played the FTP through Omnisphere and Reaktor 5- nice. I'm glad to finally be able to use guitar to control the deep ambient sweeps that Omnsiphere is so good at.

As an afterthought, I decided to try the MIDI outs through my Korg M3M hardware synth. Beautiful sound and less latency than going through the software synths. But, it had a tendency to create stuck notes. Couldn't dial them out through the FTP, although it happened less often using Sonar as the MIDI output.

The net is I bought a Kenton MIDI USB host from a local retailer and used it instead of the computer. Voila! No more stuck notes! And the latency is next to nil- fantastic! I can even (sort of) strum guitar samples, my ultimate cynical test for a guitar synth.

This setup is SO GOOD I am going to have to rethink my entire rig.
Wow.

Spider

@Rhole I always wrote that :) Prepare patches in FTP software for external synth and use TP in HW mode.
If you can return your Kenton do it! and buy iConnectivity MIDI4+ of course if 1/2 1U rack isn;t a problem for you. Using Kenton you must swap receiver to Computer when you would like to use it with VSTi...

Rhcole

Spider,

Yes, your posts inspired me. I think I will stay with the "if it isn't broken don't fix it" approach I have, especially since I was experiencing stuck notes using the FTP software.
BUT, my point is that I would no longer even THINK of dragging a laptop out live- I would use a hardware synth of some kind with the Kenton as the converter.

Simply. Easy. Bullet-proof. Great performance!

Elantric

#3
QuoteSimply. Easy. Bullet-proof. Great performance!

FWIW - I enjoy similar results connecting FTP USB receiver to the Apple USB Camera adapter on my iPad Air or iPad Mini running IK Sampltank or BS-16i

Fishman Triple Play Top Things to Know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0







And the old Black iConnect MIDI" box works great as a USB Host:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60216#msg60216




as well as the new iConnectMIDi4+ that is finally shipping!

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.0



Both iConnectMIDI boxes above( along with the Kenton USB Host to MIDI box) allow the FTP to directly interface and drive hardware synths that employ old school 5pin DIN MIDI I/O jacks.


Study the recommended Hardware Synths for MIDI Guitarists here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=50.0

scratch17

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

gregjon

I just bought the iConnectMIDi2+

Can I use this to use with TP without a computer too ?

I have an  Ipad 2. Will that be OK ? I have an old Casio keyboard with Midi I might experiment with too.

Thanks

Fender 50th Anniversary Strat with GK3 pickup.
Godin Freeway SA
Godin Multiac Nylon SA
Fishman Triple Play
GR-55
GR-20
SUGS Selector
RFX Midi Foot Control Pedal
Ipad Air, Apps: Bias, Jam Up Pro, Flying Haggis, Tone Stack, Audiobus, Garage Band,

Elantric

QuoteI just bought the iConnectMIDi2+

Can I use this to use with TP without a computer too ?

No - there is no USB Host port on iConnectMIDI 2+

Therefore no method to insert the FTP USB Receiver dongle.

QuoteI have an  Ipad 2. Will that be OK

Yes - use the  Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit)

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC531ZM/A/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit?fnode=3a

Here is my iPad 2 +CCK working with FTP USB Receiver dongle.




As a side note -
read this thread to learn how to drive your old Casio MIDI keyboard using an iPad MIDI Sequencer

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0

read

Fishman Triple Play Top Things to Know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60207#msg60207

jasavoy

I just got a iConnectMIDI4+ to control a GR33 with FTP. I got the MIDI4+ for future expansion. I'm also tired of taking a laptop to gigs.
There is no latency at all and tracking is fantastic, but not too sure if HW mode is really working;
Patch Changes using the D-pad on the FTP controller doesn't seem to work, just confuses the GR33. Weird noises come out of the GR33 when using the up or down buttons.

Bit of a newbie using MIDI with the FTP, any advice would be appreciated.

Vade

Welcome Jasavoy;

Mind if I ask why you're sick of dragging laptops to gigs? I've an iConnectMIDI4+ I'm using to route midi around and I do like it but I'm wondering if my iPads are going to cut it with what I'm wanting to do; FTP synths, samples, and set list management. So far my iPad 3 doesn't come close to using Sonar X3 for those functions in my home studio once I start adding layers. Do you think it's a mistake to think of running a laptop for the sheer power it brings to the equation? What are the drawbacks you're sick of?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

jasavoy

Hi Vade,

My laptop is older and am running into the same issues you outlined with the ipad, not enough horse power.
I've been using the GR33 for over 10 years at gigs in cover bands. Would like to ditch the 13pin cable and have better tracking with the FTP.

That's why I got the MIDI4+, the future options are outstanding for just $50 more than the Kenton unit.

Right now all I need to figure out is how to change patches in the GR33 using the FTP into the MIDI4+ for some upcoming gigs


Elantric

I simply Ignore the FTP "hardwareMode" - never found it useful or reliable

On my FTP I just plug the Ftp Receiver into my iConnnectMIDI, and feed a 5pin MIDI Out to any hardware synth and power up  - I don't hold any control keys down during power up to enable " Hardware mode"

If I press the D pad Up transmits patch up command


If I press the D pad Down it transmits patch down command

Just don't press the FTP D pad left  or right keys.


In this manner I get perfect tracking of anything I play on my guitar using any MIDI tone module I own  - including an iPad running Sampletank.

thebrushwithin

QuoteIn this manner I get perfect tracking of anything I play on my guitar using any MIDI tone module I own  - including an iPad running Sampletank.

What about pitch bend? Haven't had much time, but will starting next week, and I wish to be able to have accurate pitch bend with my Korg Wavestation SR. So far, I haven't had any luck just using the IC4+, in the manner you speak,  as far as non chromatic pitch bend goes. Are you using the FTP in poly mode?

shawnb

Quote from: thebrushwithin on September 13, 2014, 06:36:09 AM
What about pitch bend? Haven't had much time, but will starting next week, and I wish to be able to have accurate pitch bend with my Korg Wavestation SR. So far, I haven't had any luck just using the IC4+, in the manner you speak,  as far as non chromatic pitch bend goes. Are you using the FTP in poly mode?

As Elantric uses it, he is in "BASIC" mode, which is in Poly & Trig (chromatic).  (See the manual pg 14.)   Funny, that's the ONLY mode I NEVER use so I'm not too familiar with it!   

Hardware mode works great - yes, you can have all the pitch bends you want.  You can mix MONO & POLY, chromatic & non-chromatic & even have different FTP dynamics settings for different patches if you like. 

Problem 1:  The major problem is that you're flying blind.  You MUST get some visual feedback from somewhere in your gear to help you visually understand it's working as expected.  E.g., a lot of hardware synths in MULTI mode will show you (A) what patch you're on & (B) whether MIDI traffic is being received on each of your 6 channels.   THAT is an example of a visual indicator you need to ensure it's all doing what you want it to. 

Problem 2:  When using HW mode you need to carefully plan out how you want things to work, i.e., patch changes, song lists, etc.  There are MANY possible approaches for using the FTP, you gotta design the one that works for you.  I think in general, there are two broad approaches you may choose: 
  • FTP is configured by 'mode'.  E.g., you setup one HW synth patch for each set of FTP settings you want.  You might have 4 HW synth patches, one for MONO/Auto, one for MONO/TRIG, for POLY/Auto & one for POLY/Trig.  If you mainly stick in MONO/Auto like me, you may never need to touch your d-pad at all.  You would need to change your HW synth's patches using a foot controller or some other means.

  • FTP is configured by patch.  You want your dpad UP & DOWN buttons to navigate patches.  You must setup one HW synth patch for each of your hardware synth's presets you wish to invoke.    Greatest flexibility, just a bit of a pain to configure.  You end up doing a lot of configuration in the FTP app, pressing 'Load Controllers' to loadup the FTP with your desired configs. 

For more information on HW mode follow this link.  This doc may be slightly out of date, I haven't revised it per recent FTP releases, but it's still very close:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9625.0

How to setup a POLY voice even though your FTP is configured for MONO:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12161.0

If you are using HW mode 'by patch' as described above, you may find yourself making bulk edits to user patches.  I have found that you can browse or edit the FTP's settings files directly:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12036.0

Finally...  Do you want to easily 'browse' and audition all of your Korg's (or any other synth's) patches with the FTP?  Specifically, while in 6-channel MONO mode so you can bend notes, experiment with a slide or whammy?  To see what each voice sounds & plays like?   If your synth supports MULTI mode, and you can configure a preset to accept Program Changes for 6 different 'parts', you can easily navigate thru all of your synth's voices using the FTP.  Read pg 5 in my HW mode document, the first link above, which describes an undoc'd feature that I call 'Program Change' mode.   VERY, very helpful for exploring your HW synth using FTP. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteWhat about pitch bend?

I have two FTP's and one I use most has original firmware - where with FTP in Basic mode the Left D pad button would toggle pitch bend on/off.

I really like this  - and was really upset when Fishman " broke" this feature after latest firmware updates  - choosing instead to repurpose the D-Pad Left/right buttons as a dedicated Mouse control for the Win/OSX "pop up menu control" for Fishman Control panel - which makes the D pad a useless land mine IMHO as once you press D-Pad Left/right buttons, you are flying blind when using an iPad or hardware synth and typical have to recycle the power to regain control, and get back to square one. This poor design choice for D-Pad Left / Right button "dis-functionality" is hard coded for all modes and easily can to clobber your gig, leaving you looking like a fool mid song if you accidentally hit the Left or Right D pad, and you are not near your Laptop's keyboard to press "escape key - I really hate the FTP D-Pad user interface and all my complaining to Fishman to offer a user definable D-Pad 4 button MIDI Control with more useful live performance controls ( like Poly / chromatic with left D pad , and Octave up down with right Dpad - just like my 1986 Casio MG-510) falls on deaf ears at Fishman. If you are touring pro with Fishman Tripleplay with latest firmware - I would superglue the Left / Right D-Pad buttons to prevent getting clobbered at the gig.     

Spider

In HW mode you could use even four splits made in FTP app when you use hardware synthesizer in mulit voice mode. For me it is my primary mode and sometimes i use basic when need poly / chromatic mode.

But... I don't use newest hardware but that last which support Poly/chromatic <> Poly/PB +-2 switching.

Spider

Elantric,
As I read in latest manual in Basic mode when you don't open TP application still left-right button switch between trigger- auto PB 2 semi mode.

"Basic Mode:
Power Switch On without D-Pad engaged, AKA Basic Mode: TriplePlay in POLY Mode, TRIG Bends (No string
bends). If the D-Pad ENTER button is pressed, after the controller is turned on, the Basic mode will toggle to
POLY Mode, AUTO Bends (see Pitchbend in Parameters Menu section of this user guide for more detail), Pitch
Bend Range 2 (see Pitch Bend Range in Menu Tree section for more detail). If BACK button is pressed, device
will return to TRIG bend settings"

Elantric

QuoteAs I read in latest manual in Basic mode when you don't open TP application still left-right button switch between trigger- auto PB 2 semi mode.

"Basic Mode:
Power Switch On without D-Pad engaged, AKA Basic Mode: TriplePlay in POLY Mode, TRIG Bends (No string
bends). If the D-Pad ENTER button is pressed, after the controller is turned on, the Basic mode will toggle to
POLY Mode, AUTO Bends (see Pitchbend in Parameters Menu section of this user guide for more detail), Pitch
Bend Range 2 (see Pitch Bend Range in Menu Tree section for more detail). If BACK button is pressed, device
will return to TRIG bend settings"

Thanks for the info  - maybe I will update my other FTP now. Ive learned to be gun shy about applying Firmware updates as this tends to fix 3 things while breaking a dozen other things that are crucial for my needs.

jasavoy

Got the iConnectMIDI4+ working with the GR33 for a gig last night. Here's what I ended up doing;

First, disconnected the MIDI out from the GR33...was able to patch select. However, when scrolling through patches with the D-pad, sometimes the GR33 would go back to the first patch randomly.

Set the GR33 to Poly and set my first FTP patch as HW mode Poly...tried to set first FTP patch to MONO and the GR33 to MONO, but chords wouldn't work.

For the gig, made the first 6 patches in HW mode in POLY. The first 6 patches on the GR33 are my main tones I normally use. Seemed to work using the D-pad.

Spider mentioned that FTP is in basic mode without running the application (direct into into the MIDI4+ host port) the FTP is in POLY mode by default.....hmmm.

Question; When in basic mode, selecting patches with the D-pad not going through the FTP patches loaded into the controller?




Spider

In Basic mode UP/Down change programs up/down. All is on CH1 in poly. Settings for hardware synth are ignored. It scroll PC like 1-2-3-4---

In HW mode first patch created in application decided about MIDI mode. If it is set to Poly all patches in HW mode will be in poly mode regardless of settings per hardware synth patch which will work with hardware synthesizer when you use TriplePlay application!

Patches for hardware synthesizer have all settings like patches for VST. So if you set looper, hold pedal they will work. When you set desired interment Touch sensitivity, or choose fingerstyle instead of pick it will works

Elantric

QuoteAnyone try a Muse Receptor with FTP in hardware mode?

Peavey/MuseBox review is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5948.msg96019#msg96019


Study the recommended Hardware Synths for MIDI Guitarists here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=50.0