Vg-99 in an amp fx loop?

Started by ktat, September 16, 2013, 11:09:08 AM

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ktat

Just had an interesting thought... (or not)

I remember reading that someone was taking the output of the chain A and routing it back into the VG 99 through the guitar input,  essentially putting the entire A chain and B chain in series / mono. (I could be wrong on this)

Would it be possible to run the A chain out of say the left output into the front of an amp, then take the amps effects send back into the VG 99 into the guitar input and feed it through chain B, running it's output back to the amps effects return?

The advantages to this setup would be obvious, however I fear there would be too many level mismatches and potential for noise to make it work.

Anyone ever try something like this?

Elantric

#1
QuoteWould it be possible to run the A chain out of say the left output into the front of an amp, then take the amps effects send back into the VG 99 into the guitar input and feed it through chain B, running it's output back to the amps effects return?

Correct- that connection topology can work with VG-99 - but you MUST be careful with panning  / mix  / Gain assignments of VG-99's CHAIN A vs CHAIN B  -  to prevent a runaway feedback loop and noise




--

Bill Ruppert

yes I did it and I think I posted a patch where it is all set up.
It works great but restricts you to a mono sound.
I will look for it.
bill

Quote from: ktat on September 16, 2013, 11:09:08 AM
Just had an interesting thought... (or not)

I remember reading that someone was taking the output of the chain A and routing it back into the VG 99 through the guitar input,  essentially putting the entire A chain and B chain in series / mono. (I could be wrong on this)

Would it be possible to run the A chain out of say the left output into the front of an amp, then take the amps effects send back into the VG 99 into the guitar input and feed it through chain B, running it's output back to the amps effects return?

The advantages to this setup would be obvious, however I fear there would be too many level mismatches and potential for noise to make it work.

Anyone ever try something like this?

rolandvg99

Should work ok.
Set up tip: Channel A is Pre amp FX (Normal input in COSM must be set to 0) -> Main Outs set to Channel A -> Amp in -> FX out to VG-99 Guitar input -> Channel B COSM vol 0, use Normal combined with Main Out volume to adjust the input -> Sub out set to channel B -> FX return.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Bill Ruppert

Ok here is a patch for you.
Series Effects!

Use GK pickup in.
Take patch cable from left output to guitar input on the back panel.
Monitor with the right side output.
Now its all the effects and amp from channel B into all effects and amp of channel A and out the right side output.

Have FUN!
Bill

Elantric

#5
Bill,

Thanks for posting a VG-99 patch to get others a basic start on this "Vg-99 in an amp fx loop" scenario.


Ive moved this thread to VG-99 Patch  "Other" area too  - just so it wont get lost in the General Discussion thread in a week.

ktat

Thanks guys, and thank you Bill for the patch. 

I've been so swamped that I am just about to try this now.  I will share my results when I have a chance to test it out.

I'm a big fan of using the VG 99 with actual guitar amps, right into the front input.  I like what an actual amp does to the sound and I'm not trying to re-create anything like say acoustic guitars.

After playing a gig with nothing but an amp and a volume control, it got me thinking about what it would be like to use the VG 99 in this kind of scenario.  Like a big mono multi effect.

All the models sounds so good in front of an amp anyway that this might be a waste of time. We shall see!

ktat

Hmmmmmm.

Well I gave it an hour and I wasn't able to make this patch work.

Chances are pretty good it is operator failure!

I was only able to get sound from the output by turning up the cosm gtr mix level, the normal pick up didn't do anything.

It also didn't seem like b was feeding a.  I tried messing with the channel pans and was able to get a feedback loop, but all the settings I tried didn't seem to do what we are looking to accomplish.

Is it possible to do this using only the normal pick up sound?  My goal is to have one effect chain in front of the preamp, and the other in between the preamp and power amp while using only the guitars stock pickups.  With the option to use a cosm gtr when needed.

In theory this should be working. For the record, I didn't put the guitar amp in the picture.  I just set it up like Bill described and ran the output into my mixer.

Oh well, maybe I'll try another day.  I think the concept is worth exploring, but I could've just practiced for an hour!  LOL

Weed_

I was doing the same thing. Not possible. Soon as you open the input of the normal PU, you are actually letting the signal from amp(fx send) in both path A and B, so you´ve created an endless loop on path A. The only option is to use it only with cosm PUs. It really sucks Roland couldn`t put the fx loop in VG-99, it would make it perfect to use also with tube amps as Multieffects and guitar modeller. Oh well..

Elantric

Suggest read this post below which add a few new signal routing options for VG-99 users 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3207.msg58592#msg58592

Find a new use for the SPDIF Digital Output on your VG-99 or other gear.

This popular FiiO D3 DAC Box has both optical and RCA SPDIF Inputs and supports 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz 96kHz, 192kHz - and has decent audio specs  - should work well with either VG-99 or KPA SPDIF Out. $33
http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350923129&sr=1-1&keywords=FiiO+D3



Assign the VG-99's "Digital (SPDIF) Output to use the COSM Guitar Output as the Audio signal, - but feed a cheap DAC to feed other Analog FX.


More here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3331.msg50670#msg50670

Cell7 wrote
QuoteUpdate - received and tested the FiiO D3 and Im happy to say that it is very well built and it works perfectly with the spdif out of the vg99. So now we essentially have an extra stereo [or 2 x mono if you want] chain that can go to your outboard gear. I am running it straight from the COSM A [after alt-tuning etc] and then into pedals etc before mixing together with the vg99 etc at a small behringer 10 channel mixer. So... I know that this could also be done with the sub outs of the vg99, but for some reason i want to leave those free for flexibility.

Did i mention this thing is made well? for 30-odd euros! It is tiny, metal cased and it is powered by micro-usb from a tiny wall-wart [or in my case sharing from the same power as my ipad and iphone]. It works as soon as its plugged in. As far as i can tell, sound quality is excellent, but there would likely be a delay of a few microseconds due to the DA conversion so it needs to be processed before mixing back in with the vg99 signal or else you will get some phasing...


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