GP-10 vs VG-99

[Elantric]

It was actually 199 dollar for a white 2011 year 13" MacBook
With 1 year warranty

Amazing deal !!

Add $150 to compare to USA prices
(Typically $350 for a used 2011 Macbook Pro 13"  today:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-Late-2011-Core-i5-2-4GHz-4GB-DDR3-250GB-MD313LL-A-A1278-/272305320114?hash=item3f66a970b2:g:5jsAAOSwzLlXhCSC



But the important aspect is be sure you have an upgrade path to support 16GB RAM,

With only 8GB of RAM on a Mac, you can not run the Avid Protools 11  Demo Tune


I still have my 2013 MacbooK Pro Retina, but it only has 8GB RAM soldered down to the main PC board and no user upgrade path- which in 2016 is crippling.

(and i still have a 2008 era Macbook pro with Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM  - but its locked essentially as a 2008 time machine)

Today I get far more effective use with my used 2011  Macbook Pro 17" Quad Core i7 CPU  running OSX 10.10 Yosemite- the last good MacBook  IMHO  - has slots and plenty of room for user installed upgrades (16GB RAM, 2TB SSD, Internal 2nd Drive or BlueRay Burner, Bluetooth 4 LE, etc.) 
I go into detail about my computers here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6104.0

[Brak(E)man]

I think that was the cheapest and after sales tax deduction but still great , prices today are a bit higher but refurbished macs works great, having started on a Atari 1040st with 1 mb ram and 16 MHz CPU no HD makes a difference .
As far as latency Goes , I used Guitarrig 1 with the Mbox USB 1 soundcard 25ms and up
I have no problem with that having played guitar to midi in the 80ths
But that's nothing compared to a pneumatic Churchorgan

[Elantric]

having started on a Atari 1040st

Then you are no stranger to 13pin DIN plugs!

Atari ST Display Monitor connection used them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST

But that's nothing compared to a pneumatic Churchorgan

Agreed!

or one of these:

Magnus Air powered Chord Organ

[Brak(E)man]

Having registered church organs and seen the organist playing 16th runs going up and when going down again hearing the organ playing the notes going up, I feel that guitarists whine about latency all the time.
What is the latency through a class a tube amp and standing 15-20 feet away ?
Anyone else did that math

[Elantric]

What is the latency through a class a tube amp and standing 20 feet away ?

http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/calculadores_en.htm
about  17 milliseconds

(0.01777259475218659 second)

[Brak(E)man]

Yes but that's only from speaker to ear right ?

What is the latency from plucked string through the class a tube amp To the speaker ?

(And people complain about latency in soundcard computer soundcard conversion )

[chrish]

You may also have to add 150 ms of lantency for the brain to process the sound, but i'd have to check that number. I think that's why when we're playing in the groove and feeling the flow, we're floating above it all. :-)

[Elantric]

You may also have to add 150 ms of lantency for the brain to process the sound, but i'd have to check that number. I think that's why when we're playing in the groove and feeling the flow, we're floating above it all. :-)

Anything over 7 milliseconds is my threshold of observation of latency

[Brak(E)man]

And there must be a noticable latency from guitar to the speaker

[Elantric]

And there must be a noticable latency from guitar to the speaker

That's typically in the microsecond range ( speed of electrons )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity

[Brak(E)man]

If it was a straight line yes , but there's lots of stuff that's suposed to happen in a all tube amp, and just to get the speakers to move enough air must be more than micro seconds

I'm fine up to  about 50-60 ms after that my timing is a bit more off than usual

[chrish]

Anything over 7 milliseconds is my threshold of observation of latency

how are you measuring that. I did a quick search and new research suggests that fastest human processing of visual stimuli has a lantency of 13 ms. I read a bit about sound wave lantency perception and there are many test factors to consider like the frequency of the soundwave. Higher freq sound waves move faster through air. And back to my metaphysical comment about flow, for these lantency tests we have to assume that time is linear. :-)

[Brak(E)man]

And time is not linear , that's been proven , so IMO there's no such thing as latency

[vanceg]

And time is not linear , that's been proven , so IMO there's no such thing as latency

You never tried to play through a convolution reverb with the mix set to 100%.   That ain't latency, that's D-Lay.

[Brak(E)man]

I play into my looper with direct set to zero that's 23 seconds of linear latency if that exists

[gumtown]

I did a quick search and new research suggests that fastest human processing of visual stimuli has a lantency of 13 ms.

And the response time to audio stimuli is nearly half that of visual.

[Brak(E)man]

That should make any guitarist looking at ones fingers whilst playing lightheaded
So always a latency of 6,5 ms whatever one does

[Elantric]

how are you measuring that.

Measure Latency - how?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8929.msg64101#msg64101
--
1 ) I use a separate stereo audio recorder. I like the Zoom H4N, or an old Iphone4 with Fostex AR4i Audio interface and an IOS audio recording app like Refire or White recorder.


2 ) Left channel is Audio output from a headstock mounted piezo clip on pickup typically sold as an accessory for Peterson Strobe tuners. This provides immediate response from your guitar.

Peterson TP-3 Tuning Pickup
http://www.amazon.com/Peterson-TP-3-Tuning-Pickup/dp/B000NKKHVE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418052095&sr=8-2&keywords=peterson+tuner+clip





Left Channel audio will be used as the Master timing reference.

3 ) Right channel is output audio from your "unit under test"

4 ) After making the 1 minute recording of your playing, load resulting Stereo Wave file in WaveLab or Soundforge and zoom in and look at the Left Channel. Use this Left Channel audio (from the headstock piezo pickup) as a reference to measure the Right Channel's  "unit under test" millisecond(s) offset delay. 
This is your latency.

The above strategy can be employed to measure any latency of any DSP guitar gadget or full rig.

** Note if you want higher accuracy  - replace the stereo audio recorder from step #1 with a dual trace storage oscilloscope

[Elantric]

https://www.usb-audio.com/latenc-o-meter/
https://web.archive.org/web/20160531001447/https://www.usb-audio.com/latenc-o-meter/

Ploytec Latenc-o-meter

Latency Tester / Delay Meter

Pricing: Latenc-o-meter EUR 199.00 including shipment.


Here you can order the Ploytec Latenc-o-meter, a unique tool for finding the truth about latency.

The unit generates a "click" signal on its analog output (the red cinch connector) and waits until it returns on the input (the black cinch connector).

In the meantime it samples that input on its A/D converter running at 100kHz samplerate in order to get this amazing accuracy: The measurement range goes from 0.01ms to 999.99ms!

The red button switches it on while pressed, new clicks are generated every few seconds. It runs from a 9V battery which is easy to replace (but should last for ages depending on your application).

We use it for our development of external USB soundcards and drivers, but there's tons of further applications including checking your studio setup, testing digital audio equipment and last not least VoIP.

Pricing: EUR 199.00 including shipment. If you order from a non-European Union country there might be additional taxes charged by your national customs.

In the EU, you have the legal right to cancel your order (and return the unit) anytime within 14 days after ordering.

Estimated delivery time: Typically we ship on the day you order, max. 3 days. Your credit card will be charged on the day we ship the unit.

[Brak(E)man]

Peterson TP-3 Tuning Pickup
http://www.amazon.com/Peterson-TP-3-Tuning-Pickup/dp/B000NKKHVE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418052095&sr=8-2&keywords=peterson+tuner+clip

Also a great way to record an extra guitar input to mix in with your processed guitar,
Gives and unique and extra flavor to the sound , quite a few guitarists useS this method
I don't know how this particular pickup sounds though
Maybe Elantric would be kind enough to record a sample

[Elantric]

It sounds like a Barcus Berry Hotdot - like Frank Zappa used to "blend" into many of his 1970's guitar tracks

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11819

Its only $14 - so I think every guitarist should own one of these. - you get far more "attack" and faster transient response compared to mag PU's- and different tone depending on where you clamp the piezo PU on your instrument.

i use the Headstock

Zappa used to install Barcus Berry Hot Dot in the neck  / body joint on his Strats and then use a "mix" control on the guitar to "pan" between mag PU and Piezo tones

The Korg clamp on piezo PU version might be more widely available than the Peterson
https://www.amazon.com/Korg-KORG-CM200BK-Clip-On-Microphone-Black/dp/B00CPG43LO