GR-55 - Is it possible to set system tuner to A=432 Hz?

[tillthen]

I was looking to find where I could change the tuning frequency from modern 440  to the old standard of 432.   I was able to find one setting but I was only able to take it down to 435 or 36?  Is getting 432 tuning possible?

[Elantric]

Why not use an external tuner and tune your guitar to A  =432 ?
http://www.korg.com/us/products/tuners/ca_40/

The Calibration function of this hand held tuner lets you adjust the pitch in 1 Hz steps over a range of 410 - 480 Hz in order to accommodate a variety of concert pitches, giving you the flexibility to tune accurately to any song or key. There's also a memory backup function that preserves the Calibration setting and Sound Out settings even when you turn off the power. - See more at: http://i.korg.com/CA40#sthash.4fAGGlSY.dpuf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music
http://omega432.com/432-music/432hz-tuning-note-a/
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/21/heres-why-you-should-convert-your-music-to-432hz/
http://guqinlearner.blogspot.com/2013/11/can-tuning-guqin-to-a432-hertz-improve.html

[tillthen]

I can do that, but its a pain having to do it for just a couple of songs ... was hoping that I could just have a patch, where all the strings play standard tuning at 432, instead of 440

[Elantric]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music

19th and 20th century standards[edit]
The most vocal opponents of the upward tendency in pitch were singers, who complained that it was putting a strain on their voices. Largely due to their protests, the French government passed a law on February 16, 1859 which set the A above middle C at 435 Hz.[2] This was the first attempt to standardize pitch on such a scale, and was known as the diapason normal. It became quite a popular pitch standard outside France as well, and has also been known at various times as French pitch, continental pitch or international pitch (the last of these not to be confused with the 1939 "international standard pitch" described below).

The diapason normal resulted in middle C being tuned at approximately 258.65 Hz (info). An alternative pitch standard known as philosophical or scientific pitch, fixed middle C at 256 Hz (info) (that is, 28 Hz), which resulted in the A above it being approximately 430.54 Hz (info). The appeal of this system was its mathematical idealism (the frequencies of all the Cs being powers of two).[4] This system never received the same official recognition as the French A = 435 Hz and was not widely used. In recent years, this tuning has been revived, sometimes as 432 Hz under the name "Verdi tuning" since Italian composer Giuseppe Verdi had proposed a slight lowering of the French tuning system.[5]

British attempts at standardisation in the 19th century gave rise to the old philharmonic pitch standard of about A = 452 Hz (different sources quote slightly different values), replaced in 1896 by the considerably "deflated" new philharmonic pitch at A = 439 Hz.[2] The high pitch was maintained by Sir Michael Costa for the Crystal Palace Handel Festivals, causing the withdrawal of the principal tenor Sims Reeves in 1877,[6] though at singers' insistence the Birmingham Festival pitch was lowered (and the organ retuned) at that time. At the Queen's Hall in London, the establishment of the diapason normal for the Promenade Concerts in 1895 (and retuning of the organ to A = 439 at 15 °C (59 °F), to be in tune with A = 435.5 in a heated hall) caused the Royal Philharmonic Society and others (including the Bach Choir, and the Felix Mottl and Artur Nikisch concerts) to adopt the continental pitch thereafter.[7]

In England the term "low pitch" was used from 1896 onward to refer to the new Philharmonic Society tuning standard of A = 439 Hz at 68° F, while "high pitch" was used for the older tuning of A = 452.4 Hz at 60° F. Although the larger London orchestras were quick to conform to the new, low pitch, provincial orchestras continued using the high pitch until at least the 1920s, and most brass bands were still using the high pitch in the mid-1960s.[8]

The Stuttgart Conference of 1834 recommended C264 (A440) as the standard pitch based on Scheibler's studies with his Tonometer.[9] For this reason A440 has been referred to as Stuttgart pitch or Scheibler pitch.

In 1939, an international conference[10] recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz, now known as concert pitch. As a technical standard this was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 and reaffirmed by them in 1975 as ISO 16. The difference between this and the diapason normal is due to confusion over the temperature at which the French standard should be measured. The initial standard was A = 439 Hz (info), but this was superseded by A = 440 Hz after complaints that 439 Hz was difficult to reproduce in a laboratory because 439 is a prime number.[10]

I tend to play with Keyboard players or acoustic pianos, and those instruments always dictated my tuning standard used at that gig. And trust me that was not always tuned to A4=440Hz. 

[gumtown]

One option is to route everything though the MFX-pitch shifter,
set the Balance to W100% (all effect),
and i guess the pitch fine down -8 cents (is it?).

The pitch shifter may not be to polyphonicly musical, but it may work for what you need.

Alternatively if you are using just a modeled guitar tone, then set the pitch-fine down.

[Elantric]

UPDATE: Audacity now has a higher quality conversion module. Check out the updated tutorial for Audacity here:

This tutorial will show you how to convert a music track from A=440 hz tuning scale to the A=432 hz tuning scale.

The programs used in this tutorial are Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) and Adobe Audition (http://www.adobe.com/products/auditio...). The tuner used in this tutorial is Korg CA-40 (http://www.amazon.com/Korg-CA-40-Larg...). The sample track used in this video is The Awakening (Quick Version) by Omharmonics (http://www.omharmonics.com/products)

Please feel free to past any question. Converting music from A=440 hz to A=432 hz is a learning experience for me, so I'm sure that you may have questions as well.

Any programmers out there, I urge you to look into creating programs that convert music to 432 hz automatically and in high quality. The ideal program would have the following:

(1) Identify the correct tuning of the track;
(2) Convert from that tuning to 432 hz;
(3) The audio quality of the output file should be no different than the input file.
(4) Preferably this program should be open source to allow other programmers to experiment with implementing this program as add-to music playing software or anything else. This should be a free program for anyone.

Email me with any questions freeyourmind432@gmail.com.

[Elantric]

My 2 cents - I feel a tracks "rhythmic feel" plays more impact than the pitch.

Ive done countless sessions where the final version was intentionally slowed down a bit to no particular key reference  - specifically the goal was to achieve a specific emotional mood, or have a tighter slow rhythmic groove (by recording the tune a bit faster) or make a 26 second tune fill 30 seconds duration for a TV commercial - and nobody ever analyzed- (nor cared) what frequency A4 actually ended up, since back then we were using VSO controlled tape decks     

[Kilgore]

You could just tune to 440 and pretend that you tuned to 432. The effective outcome on the harmonious nature of music in the universe wouldn't have changed one single iota.

No offense, but it's just a heaping load of horse hockey if you ask me.

[tillthen]

You guys are great... thanks for the info.   I remember having that a similar thought as you Kilgore, back in my "only" acoustic days when a buddy of mine was fiddlling for 30 minutes with his peddle settings to get the perfect distortion sound.   To me it either the sound was distorted or not, lol.  But it mattered a lot to him.  Now here I am with this awesome pedal that is a tweakers paradise, lol

[aliensporebomb]

I did this with the VG-99 using the polyphonic pitch transposer.  I posted a link here maybe a year and a half ago showing the difference between 432 and 440.  432 is the one that seemed a bit sickly to me actually.

[tillthen]

really didnt want this to be a 440 versus 432 discussion .  To me that discussion is like trying to debate what type of of distortion sound is better.    It will always be in the ear of the beholder.  Amazing how frequency seems to strike controversy that other settings dont.  But I'm a noob, what do I know lol.

[mbenigni]

My 2 cents - I feel a tracks "feel" plays more impact than the pitch.

I agree, and the blind test in that video supports this.  Maybe "all things being equal" one or the other is preferable, but all things are never equal.  In the video he mixes up 432 and 440 pretty well, but I voted B across the board because I thought the performances sounded a little livelier.  They were also a half step or two apart in several cases, which throws a wrench.  It's like trying to compare two good distortion pedals when one is boosted louder than the other.  The slightly inferior pedal might win the shootout on account of one's perception owing to a variable other than the pedal's inherent timbre.

I wouldn't reject the possibility that one is preferable to the other, and if you can hear the difference you should obviously go with what you prefer.  I'm just saying there are bigger fish to fry.


*But having just watched the second video, maybe I'm missing the point.  The implication is that this isn't meant to sound better, necessarily, but rather to promote healing.  Of course, that being the case, the blind test also misses the point, unless the aim was to cure my cold in 4 minutes. 

[tillthen]

Why it matters to me...  I took a liking to an artist, and wanted to play his songs...  I would play them and it just wouldn't sound right.. I attributed it to the voicings I was using for the chords.   I traveled 3 hours to where he was playing, and paid for a lesson, before his set.  The experience was pricey but awesome.   One of the things he did tell me was that he normally plays in 432.  When i did this, I had the sound without changing the chord voicings.  Once I had "the sound" then of course Im really putting more into dynamics or the feel, because now i was "on it"!  : )

Sometimes when you are struggling with the "tone", it's hard to be into the dynamics and feel.  When i'm lazy do i play them at 440? sure!  Do I play it the same way?sure!  Does it make me feel good? absolutedly!  Then if I switch to 432,  and when I strike the first chord, I'm always like "okay now we're talking!"

Do I use 432 all the time no...  Just on his songs... and a couple songs where it helps me on the vocal side of things.

It's not as drastic a change as sean hayes' tuning for "powerful stuff".   But I dig sean's tuning not  for the sound, but the tuning creates a looseness in the strings that produces a nice feel.

[Elantric]

FWIW - I checked and most all my Korg Tuners can be set for A4=432
http://www.amazon.com/Korg-INC-CA-20-Chromatic-Tuner/dp/B005OKTFSO

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-CA-40-Large-Display-Chromatic/dp/B000EE8YPK/ref=pd_cp_MI_0

[Elantric]

Here is what I mean when I say "rhythmic feel" :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groove_(music)

I remain in the opinion that exploring and understanding and applying all the concepts described in the link above to ones one live  or recorded musical performance (regardless of genre) plays a far larger role in non verbal communication through music than what tuning standard was used.

But thanks for sharing your concepts and goals while pursuing music based around  A4=432Hz

[gumtown]

One option is to route everything though the MFX-pitch shifter,
set the Balance to W100% (all effect),
and i guess the pitch fine down -8 cents (is it?).

The pitch shifter may not be to polyphonicly musical, but it may work for what you need.

Alternatively if you are using just a modeled guitar tone, then set the pitch-fine down.

Did you try either of these two options?

[tillthen]

That works!!  Thanks so much.   It is definitely a headphoned application as acoustic strings ringing out in standard 440 is distracting but it's a nice workaround.  Slipping the headphones on is much easier than whipping out the tuner, lol....  Thanks so much

[Elantric]

FWIW

On Roland / Boss Gear the Tuning range is

A = 435–445 Hz (default: A = 440 Hz)

[RichEngle]

OK, I realize that the whole 432 vs. 440 reference thing is kind of a touchy topic off the rip, BUT, I've decided to make use of it.  Now, for one that means I have to use an external tuner, as the 55 can only go down to 435, thank you very much Roland, but still no problem there.  I'm swimming in it right now and can't see the forest for the trees, but what is, if possible, the easiest way to take the synth engines down 8 cents?  Can this be done globally?  ACK!!!

Best to All,
Rich

[Elantric]

Read advice above

[Sec-Def]

You could just tune to 440 and pretend that you tuned to 432. The effective outcome on the harmonious nature of music in the universe wouldn't have changed one single iota.

No offense, but it's just a heaping load of horse hockey if you ask me.

well, this is spot on.

[Elantric]

just get a tie wrap and depress the whammy bar on your Floyd Rose or Steinberger Trans-tremolo until A=432, and tie the depressed Tremolo bar down with a tie wrap to your volume pot.

I never bought into the whole "A = 432Hz is the natural resonant frequency of life, and A=440Hz is a mind control mechanism by the illuminati" thing  myself

Default Re: The A=432 Hz Frequency: DNA Tuning and the Bastardization of Music
The change from the original 432hz to 440hz in "A" occurred in the early 1900's but not without a fight from most major orchestras and the musicians whose hearts and souls knew the change wasn't right. However, those who , both overt and hidden, controlled the funding for most orchestras have had the last word. The change was/is deeply serious and very dark. It certainly has everything to do with social manipulation.
There was a researcher who somehow was able to transfer the coding from orchestral music to DNA coding and he found some very interesting correlations between states of health and sickness and the positive or negative effects of music. If anyone has a reference to this author/researcher and his findings I would appreciate any sharing you could do with us.

What I do remember is that this researcher connected the orchestration of the "Funeral March" by Chopin to Pancreatic Cancer.

On a side note, I just bought a piano hammer, a tuning tool, for the piano someone gave us a while back. We have played some interesting music on the piano but because it is out of tune, some flat, some sharp, we have left the piano alone for some time. To help us with getting to 432hz correctly I spent $20 on a Korg electronic tuner, a CA-40, that gives us the ability to easily set it to 432hz. We both don't like the 440hz tuning from A as it is, so it will be a little adventure seeing what I come up with and being told how hard it is to tune a piano....We may end up tuning the entire piano into a different instrument.
The young friend of ours who is a salesman at the store we bought the hammer from, knew well, as do others at the music store, of the nature of tuning to 432hz. He said that he insisted his band tune the bass and the guitars lower to this frequency. Although they questioned his insistence on this new tuning he says that there are far fewer arguments in the band and they are much more productive.
Because my son has perfect pitch he has always tuned his guitar lower anyway and soon after I taught him the basics, when he was 12, he automatically discarded listening to any tuning device and his music sounds great. I have always been a singer and have transliterated the sacred music and prayers from any source i can find, Shinto, Laakota Sioux, Tibetan, GurMukee.....and they all have a very common essence when sung, whispered, chanted, projected....You'll easily know the difference when someone has been raised/trained in these areas with this western/modern tuning (even though saying western is not an accurate term). I can easily tell when I hear a chant done by westerners as the enunciations don't use the whole instrumentation that the entire mouth allows....tongue placement, the entire palate, relaxed jaw.....etc.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85331-The-A-432-Hz-Frequency-DNA-Tuning-and-the-Bastardization-of-Music


https://attunedvibrations.com/432hz-healing/

What 8Hz has to do with 432Hz tuning
432Hz resonates with the frequency of 8Hz
On the musical scale where A has a frequency of 440Hz, the note C is at about 261.656 Hz. On the other hand, if we take 8Hz as our starting point and work upwards by five octaves (i.e. by the seven notes in the scale five times), we reach a frequency of 256Hz in whose scale the note A has a frequency of 432Hz.
According to the harmonic principle by which any produced sound automatically resonates all the other multiples of that frequency, when we play C at 256 Hz, the C of all other octaves also begins to vibrate in "sympathy" and so, naturally, the frequency of 8Hz is also sounded. This is why (together with many other mathematical reasons) the musical pitch tuned to 432 oscillations per second is known as the "scientific tuning."
This tuning was unanimously approved at the Congress of Italian musicians in 1881 and recommended by the physicists Joseph Sauveur and Felix Savart as well as by the Italian scientist Bartolomeo Grassi Landi.
In contrast, the frequency chosen in London in 1953 as the worldwide reference frequency and which all music today has been tuned to, has come to be defined as 'disharmonic' because it has no scientific relationship to the physical laws that govern our universe.
Natural healing with 432Hz
432Hz is the harmonic intonation of nature
According to the above information, playing and listening to music that has been tuned to 432Hz would make your body, and the organic world which surrounds it, resonate in a natural way. This would fill you with a sense of peace and well-being, regardless of the kind of song chosen to play or listen to.
Opening your ears for music that has been tuned to the "scientific" 432Hz frequency would benefit the entire planet and everyone who lives on it, while listening to music tuned to the "disharmonic" 440Hz frequency does harm by causing stress, negative behaviors and unstable emotions.
Listening to 432Hz music resonates inside your body, releases emotional blockages, and expands consciousness. 432Hz music allows you to tune into the knowledge of the universe around us in a more intuitive way.

Well that finally explains why certain Bagpipes and slide trombones  and slide guitars drive some folks nuts

And in the olds days Ive done several sessions where at final miix , we changed the playback speed of the master tape deck , to get a better groove  - Lots of top40 hits did this in the 60s 
Beatles  "Strawberry Fields" comes to mind.

And Les Paul Mary Ford records are famous for going the other direction  - often mastered at faster speed than the actual performance , where  A=457 Hz -( How High Moon, Waiting for the Sunrise, etc)



just find an oldies radio station, and play along with your guitar and discover  that even Santo and Johnny Sleepwalk is not in A = 440hz
And in the old days the house piano dictated the tuning for "A" that night,   and that changed depending on the venue.

[Elantric]

I will add a bit of "lost history" from what i know

In my late teens I lived in a Chicago suburb, (Westmont, Illinois)  and on weekends i would travel downtown to the Kingston  Mines Coffee house for the open Blues Jam, with some genuine spirits  - bulk of the time the Piano player always preferred to play in the key of Eb - for a good reason

http://www.pianolessons.com/piano-lessons/e-flat-blues-scale.php

The Eb scale is a great scale to play really fast because the layout of the fingering makes it so easy to play.


And Sax Players love Eb
So upon arrival,  first thing all the Guitars and Bass players did was tune to Eb, which had the benefit of making the strings easier to bend for blues solos.

Lots of R&B records are cut in Eb, and Jimi Hendrix cut his teeth playing with Isley Brothers who played many tunes in Eb.

And thats also why Stevie Ray Vaughan played in Eb  - because if a Piano player or Sax player sat in - (or vice versa) , all instruments could find common ground to play their fastest blues runs when all were at Eb

[aliensporebomb]

I remember the new wave band the Gogos was particularly irritated when the producer of the song "Our Lips Are Sealed" raised the speed by several semitones for the original record. 

After that they had to play the entire tune in a higher pitch making it harder for their singer to sing it in this new pitch. 

The theory was younger people would buy the single if they heard the singing in a higher pitch much like a younger person.  I think they were only in their twenties but the producer thought they were singing in an older woman's range.  Weird.  I guess the producer was right because it was bought in droves.

Okay then there's this:
This is the Todd Rundgren instrumental "Prana" the 45 RPM mix:
! No longer available
That particular link is the original speed of the master tape.


When Rundgren produced the LP side one was 31 minutes long and side two was 35 minutes and 25 seconds long, and actually included a warning that if your needle was worn it would ruin the record.  Thank God for CD's right?

He had to raise the speed of the tune in order to get it to fit even in the long 35 minutes.  So necessity demanded he increase the speed which changed the pitch of course.

Prana was part of a very long instrumental suite and if you want to hear the "sped up" version check it out here:
! No longer available
Sped up version starts at 1:20 in this link.

Weirdly, the CD release of this I believe has the "faster" speed because slowed down it's almost a different feeling and sound - I believe he made the decision that it was the sound people were familiar with and slowing it down to get it into the correct pitch would change the recording too much since people were buying the reissue had to be familiar with the original LP mix.  I'll check my archives later today as I have the CD (which, funnily enough has the warning about playing it with a worn needle will wreck the record!)...

[admin]

The A=432 Hz requests are already there

https://rolandus.zendesk.com/hc/communities/public/questions/202245205-The-Boss-TU-3-tuner-needs-to-be-the-first-to-calibrate-to-A432Hz-