GK-3 - Electrical Mod for reverse mounting the pickup ( GK, Tripleplay, Antares

Started by Elantric, March 06, 2011, 01:18:40 PM

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Elantric

There are many folks who find the default GK-3 / GK-2A mounting with the large cable emerging at the low E side  to be awkward.

I play in a surf band lately ,and its near impossible to play a fast run on the Low E (like "Miserloo") and pick near the  bridge due the GK-3 pickup being in the way! 



As a solution, the newer Roland Gear ( VG-99, GR-55) include a GK Direction parameter,which lets you install the hex pickup "reversed" -  but the older gear does not have this function!

I have taken my GK-3 apart and Hex  pickup wires terminate in One white 8 pin Female header ( 6 string signals, Ground, and shield) This plugs into a Male 8 pin Male header on the GK-3  PC board.

With care, the  6 Hex  pickup signals on the 8 pin Female header can be re-arranged. No soldering required.

This allows me to mount the Hex pickup with the cable emerging at the high E side, and set the GK Direction parameter on newer 13 pin gear to "Normal" and maintains full backward compatibility with all my legacy dinosaur 13 pin gear, (VG-8,GR-30, etc) 

This operation can be performed on Roland GK-2, GK-2A, GK-3, GK-3B, Yamaha G1D, Axon AIX-101, Fishman TriplePlay hex mag pickups - including the internal "kit" versions.

Below is a pic of the unmodified internal GK-2A pickup header. The Black wires on the far right  are Ground and Shield - leave those alone.





BEFORE


Roland Internal 8 position PU Header (Left to Right)
8. Brown.........String 1 - high E
7. Red............String 2 - B
6. Orange.......String 3 - G
5. Yellow........String 4 - D
4. Green..........String 5 - A
3. Blue............String 6 - low E
2. Black...........Ground.
1. Ground Shield.



Use a sharp pointy X-Acto Hobby knife, or a needle, and Gently "lift" the lower edge of each white plastic finger in the red box to remove the wire with crimp metal contact away from the white plastic header. Do this for the 6 wires on the left - leave the two Black wires on right in their current location.

 
AFTER
Re-insert the 6 pickup wires in the new reverse sequence below to allow the GK-3 PU to be mounted "reversed".



Then you can install the GK-3 Hex PU Reversed like this:(not my guitar!)




More details on this same topic here too:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3865.25


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=568.msg18147#msg18147

RS

My internal GK3 just came in from backordered and I have to pick it up in another State in the next 30 days. I intend to have my luthier install (if possible) that sucker into one of the Les Pauls I own. If not possible, I will return that GK3.

I have read that there (might) be issues installing it on a Les Paul. This information is really good! I will give this link to the luthier. Any other info (and I've seen the 'Les Paul' thread) is/would be great!

Elantric

#2
If you principally use COSM pickup modeling,  an alternative Gibson style hex pickup which can be mounted in a Les Paul at the Bridge Humbucker position and use the Roland Internal GK Kit preamp parts is explained here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3115.0

mostlyjazzer

I've got my gk-3 open and looking at the multi connector to inverse them.
What tool or technique do you use to remove/rearrange the colored wires? a needle? I'm concerned of forcing pull out
and damaging the end,

MJ

mostlyjazzer


rafaelrebolleda

Quote from: PLexxiTronic on March 06, 2011, 04:04:43 PM
My internal GK3 just came in from backordered and I have to pick it up in another State in the next 30 days. I intend to have my luthier install (if possible) that sucker into one of the Les Pauls I own. If not possible, I will return that GK3.

I have read that there (might) be issues installing it on a Les Paul. This information is really good! I will give this link to the luthier. Any other info (and I've seen the 'Les Paul' thread) is/would be great!

I've just installed a GK3 Kit on a Les Paul:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4309

Here's a flickr set with the project:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafaelrebolleda/sets/72157627270046857/

It's clear to me that reverse-mounting the pick-up is the best fit; I'm using a VG-99 so I didn't rework the cables like mentioned in this thread, but I confirm it's very easy to do it if you need backwards compatibility.

Go for it!

alanw57

Quote from: mostlyjazzer on August 21, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
looks like a needle works
MJ

How, exactly, do you do it?  Where do you insert the needle?
Thanks,

Al

drjoness2001

Quote from: rafaelrebolleda on August 22, 2011, 03:23:11 AM
I've just installed a GK3 Kit on a Les Paul:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4309

Here's a flickr set with the project:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafaelrebolleda/sets/72157627270046857/

It's clear to me that reverse-mounting the pick-up is the best fit; I'm using a VG-99 so I didn't rework the cables like mentioned in this thread, but I confirm it's very easy to do it if you need backwards compatibility.

Go for it!

There is another compelling reason to reverse wire the GK-3, even if you are not using a VG-99: compatibility with the RMC input filter.

I have a guitar with a Floyd Rose trem, and it tends to generate a slight low-end rumble that can confuse the VG-99. The RMC filter installed inside the VG-99 takes care of this problem, but the filters on the RMC are specific to the strings.

gandolf

Hi,

Just picked-up a 2nd hand electric guitar  just to use with the GR55 (so i usually play bass...and was previously trying to use my 6string acoustic for guitar mode...but that was not really working for me)....

anyway, just wanted to understand why the standard way to install the GK3 pickup is with the cable leaving from the top of the pickup....i;m thinking it's better to mount it with the cable leaving toward the bottom (facing to the ground)....as it seems more out of the way in this "reverse" direction...?

But as i;m not usually a guitar player, so maybe i;m missing the reason as to why it's better from the top? This seems to be the way most pics have it showing.

Any advise appreciated.

Cheers!

riggy

Hello

I recently bought a GR-55 and an Internal GK-3 Kit.  I have looked at the videos on youtube at:





Does it matter which way the pickup cable comes from: ie. does it have to be at the top of the bridge or can it be placed the other way round?

I hope that makes sense... sorry if it doesn't!

Thanks for reading, Rich

JolietJake

Hello Rich

You can mount it either way. The default way is with the cable coming out the top. However if you want the cable coming out the bottom you can change the orientation within the GR-55 settings.

Colin

gandolf

I have the cable going down on both my guitar and bass:  i think it looks much neater ....and also i don't "sense" the cable is in the way..

When i installed the GK on my guitar though, i found i needed to shim up the Top/Low E end of the pickup....so you might want to check you have even spacing between strings and pick-up.

datsunrobbie

One thing to keep in mind - If using the guitar with older gear it may not work properly with a reversed pickup. The GR-55 can do it, but I don't think a VG-8 or GR-1 has the option.

JolietJake

Even if your equipment does not have an option to reverse the pickup it is possible to dismantle the connector and reorganise the order that way. There is instructions on this site for doing this too.

Elantric

#14
QuoteEven if your equipment does not have an option to reverse the pickup it is possible to dismantle the connector and reorganise the order that way. There is instructions on this site for doing this too.

Correct!
GK-3 - Electrical Mod for reverse mounting the pickup
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0



BEFORE

Roland Internal 8 position PU Header (Left to Right)
1. Brown.........String 1 - high E
2. Red............String 2 - B
3. Orange.......String 3 - G
4. Yellow........String 4 - D
5. Green..........String 5 - A
6. Blue............String 6 - low E
7. Black...........Ground.
8. Ground Shield.



Use a sharp pointy X-Acto Hobby knife, or a needle, and Gently "lift" the lower edge of each white plastic finger in the red box to remove the wire with crimp metal contact away from the white plastic header. Do this for the 6 wires on the left - leave the two Black wires on right in their current location.

 
AFTER
Re-insert the 6 pickup wires in the new reverse sequence below to allow the GK-3 PU to be mounted "reversed".



Then you can install the GK-3 Hex PU Reversed like this:(not my guitar!)




More details on this same topic here too:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3865.25


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=568.msg18147#msg18147

gumbo

...and if, through the intervention of an alien life-form, the little plastic connector (on the end of the wires) falls to bits in your hand while doing that mod...I have replacements..  ;D 
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

riggy

#16
Hi Guys

Many thanks for all of your comments.  I thought that I would need to use all of the cable depending on the position of PCB but eventually we found that there was a small gap right behind the scratch-plate so we managed to get the pickup into the default position by cutting a small channel out with the router to hide the wires in!!

So that is all of the cutting done (except for the holes for the S1/S2 buttons) have never needed to cut a 15mm hole before so might have to buy a new drill bit if my Uncle doesn't have one I can borrow.  The next step will be the soldering which leads me to consider asking what may turn out to be a very dumb question  :-[  ??? (please see my next thread):

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9996.0

gumbo

Quote from:  riggy on November 28, 2013, 05:28:03 PM
Hi Guys

Many thanks for all of your comments.  I thought that I would need to use all of the cable depending on the position of PCB but eventually we found that there was a small gap right behind the scratch-plate so we managed to get the pickup into the default position by cutting a small channel out with the router to hide the wires in!!

So that is all of the cutting done (except for the holes for the S1/S2 buttons) have never needed to cut a 15mm hole before so might have to buy a new drill bit if my Uncle doesn't have one I can borrow.  The next step will be the soldering which leads me to consider asking what may turn out to be a very dumb question  :-[  ??? (please see my next thread):



https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9996.0




When you're sourcing a 15mm drill bit, consider getting a "Forstner" bit....  nice clean edge to the hole, won't wander off the (necessary!) pilot hole that you drilled first...    ;)

There are details on this type of drill bit in the Installation Instructions for my Synth-Linx jacks...let me know if you'd like a PDF copy of that to give you a better idea..   PM me with a valid email address that will accept a 4MB PDF...

Cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

JolietJake

Hello Riggy

If you dont want to drill 2 15mm holes into your guitar you could always purchase a single ON-OFF-ON mini toggle switch to do the same job.
They are very inexpensive and look identical to the toggle switch supplied in the internal kit. The only difference is they spring back to the centre OFF location. You click it one way for up and the other way for down. Essentially they are 2 switches in a single switch body.

Several people (including myself) have done this.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=359.msg62171#msg62171

Cheers

whippinpost91850

If you can't find a Forstner bit a "Brad point bit"  would be next best choice.

riggy

Well, when I mentioned in passing that I was looking for a 15mm drill bit, little did I know the kind of discussion that would ensue! 

Unfortunately Peter, by the time I had received your message, Amazon had already dispatched the 15mm brad point that I had ordered for £5:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-2609255212-160mm-Point-Diameter/dp/B004WO6E00/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

But I had considered a forstner as well.  Is this what you meant:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-2609255285-Forstner-Drill-Diameter/dp/B004WO6GHG

At the time this seemed like it was far too meaty especially as we only wanted get to put two holes in the scratch-plate - I mean that's no big deal, right?  In actual fact it's hard to say - this simple task was made a whole lot more difficult because we had gone from having two nice pilot holes straight into a 10mm drill bit (simply because it was the biggest that we had.)    :-[  If you have a look at the link to the brad point shown above you can see that the center of the bit is pointed, whereas the rest of our 15mm hole was dependent on the point being in the right place.  We ended up placing a piece of dowel inside the hole, marking our center with the point of the bit and drilling out the dowel as well as the scratch-plate, all the while avoiding damaging the switches and wiring.  Like I said we made life more complicated for ourselves by being somewhat impatient, I guess.  I don't know if a forstner bit would have solved this little blip or not but it does prove to some extent that whatever you are into, you always want to check the internet and the forums for extra information, no matter how trivial.  You'll likely find that someone, somewhere has asked the same question or faced the same problem and put the details online.

Colin, thanks for your comment but I found the perfect place for the pair of them with the other switches and I have to say they really look the part - there's nothing to suggest they were not part of the guitar from the beginning!  8)

Rich

gumbo

Good 'save' there with the dowel...
...something similar to what I would have done in the circumstances.. ::)

While I agree with Colin's thoughts on the On/Off/On momentary switch as far as saving real estate, I personally like the 'feel' of the push buttons better, and find that I can handle multiple actuations much more easily and positively..   maybe that's just me.. :-\

Whatever...hope you'll have a lot of fun with your (now) GK guitar!!!

cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

whippinpost91850

Rich, I built Custom guitars , and modified thousands , for over 30 years and I mentioned the brad point as that my  go to bit for most of that time. Good going on the dowell that's what I would have told you to do. Congrats on gettin her done

Headless68

I am in the process of building a dedicated GK guitar at the moment - I have a GK Kit to install & I am going to reverse the pickup (so the extra length is not where your palm sits at the bridge) - I see the setting in the GR-55 to set the pickup in reverse mode but before I fit it I just wanted to check with the group that there are no other considerations or gotchas to think about?

Cheers
Phil

montyrivers

#24
Since you're doing an internal installation, you can repin the hex pickup's 7 wire harness that plugs into the summing board.  This is actually very simple.  You just need to gently "lift" the tab on each of the 6 pins from the plastic connector using a flat screwdriver or scalpal and slide them out.  Just click them back into place in reverse order.  Leave the 7th grounding wire alone.

Now you can use your guitar with any gk device without any threat of complication, and no cutting or soldering involved!

Do a quick forum search for the related post by elantric for visual aid if needed.