Positive Grid BIAS Amp Designer (IOS)

Started by BackDAWman, November 14, 2013, 08:10:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elantric

Bias alone has zero parameters that can be MIDI controlled.

it's only when you launch Jamup Pro from within Bias that you achieve a MIDI Control option.
I can use any MIDI Footcontroller, even an old POD XT live works well or use IK Blueboard for wireless control.

mdortona

Excellent! Are you able to use the pod xtlive  to just switch effects on/off as well as switch amps independent of each other? That would be a major back saver and less stuff to schlep! Thanks Elantric.

Matt

Elantric

#277
You can only do MIDI Control of those things which Jamup Pro supports using remote MIDI Control


Change Jamup Pro patches with MIDI Patch change commands

The top row of effects foot switches switches on the XT Live send unique MIDI CC# commands, which can be mapped to Jamup Pro Stompbox on/off, Delay on/ off, Modulation On/Off, Reverb on/off  - and have expression pedal mapped to  Jamup Pro Volume 



How to here:
Jamup Pro -How do you use MIDI CC# remote control for Stompbox FX on/off ?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11073.msg80756#msg80756

mdortona

Thanks again for all of your help! Where do you find the time to obtain such in-depth knowledge of all of these multiple cool toys? ;D

Matt

Elantric

#279
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bias-for-iphone/id807996795?mt=8
BIAS IOS Amp Sim - LIMITED TIME 50% Off SALE! ($9.99)


Bias is now better incorporated into latest version JamUp Pro XT (details at link below)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8378.msg83505;topicseen#msg83505


Although  after editing any BIAS Amp and returning to JamupProXT   - I  experience High Latency approaching 30 milliseconds processing delay - Not Good!

See details here:
Positive Grid Bias +Jamup Pro = Latency
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11658.msg85049;topicseen#msg85049

erikbojerik

Quote from: sixeight on January 09, 2014, 08:39:14 AM
Just imagine running two instances of Bias for the dual paths of the VG99. Way cool.

...or using a Bias AU as an insert in MainStage, one amp per channel strip, and having as many amps as your laptop can handle without choking.  I've done up to 10 instances of Amplitube before I ran out of fingers to count them on.

Elantric

#281
It understood BIAS Amp tone's still rules on IOS - but using several of my Audio Interfaces that allow "Direct Monitor" (Scarlett 2i4, X-Station) reveal exactly what DSP effort it takes to deliver those amazing BIAS tones.

Last weekend I spent an afternoon trying make BIAS work - but wow after editing any BIAS Amps the latency today running BIAS +JamupPro with iPad Air is MUCH higher than it used to be back in January 2014 -


http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigpro/

and many high gain amps in BIAS are pushing audio delay latency up around 20-30 milliseconds with my iPad Air 128GB   


contact Positive Grid 
http://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/requests/new





==


Steps to reproduce High Latency in BIAS+JamUpPro

Apple iPad Air 128GB (AT&T) Model MF018LL/A
IOS 7.1.2 (11D257)

Jamup Pro XT App Version 3.5.0.672
      DSP Engine 195
      Ultra Low Latency = On
     
BIAS App Version  1.2.0.2124   
      DSP Engine 21
     Crash Report Library  2.1.6
     Latency  = Low
   
   
1) Launch BIAS

2) Within BIAS - select the Crunch Amp types then select '69 Super Lead Amp

3) Go to JamUp by Clicking the JamUp icon at Top /  Right





4) Adjust Reverb E. Level to 11:00 o'clock

5 ) Lets adjust the amp settings, doubleclick the "'69 Super Lead" and click the BIAS icon on the far right

Which takes us here:



6 ) Select CAB and move the SM-57 mic a bit to the right off axis

7) Return to JamUp by Clicking the JamUp icon at Top /  Right
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1882014/1404857498_111397535_IMG_0010.PNG


8 ) Listen to the doubled increase in Latency

mbenigni

#282
For me, the honeymoon period with JamUp/Bias is running a little thin anyway.  Am I the only one who's having a hard time with latency?  It seemed so usable when I first bought it, and I don't know whether that was the thrill of novelty, or whether the app has gotten (much) slower with recent releases, but I can barely play it now, even after a full reset on an iPad Air with no other apps running, in Ultra Low Latency mode.  The latency is distracting for me, and worse, it seems really inconsistent from moment to moment.  It seems like Positive Grid is piling on bells and whistles and assuming Apple will make it all work with a faster iPad 5 in a couple of months.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, though?  Do you guys run in airplane mode or otherwise disable core OS features to make JamUp playable?

mbenigni

#283
QuoteToday with latest ipad Air and IOS 7.12, the latency on most high gain BIAS Amp models is very high.

I guess it is more likely that Apple's changes to the OS, rather than Positive Grid's changes to the app, are to blame.  I would think PG would be sensitive about optimizing for low-latency, whereas Apple doesn't have any direct interest in the matter.

whippinpost91850

#284
Quote from:  Elantric
True.
Today with latest ipad Air and IOS 7.12, the latency on most high gain BIAS Amp models is very high.
www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9903.msg84545#msg84545
makes me want to jailbreak and revert to IOS 6
I agree I would if I could . I have recently quit using Bias for the sit-in jam tool I was using it for

Ringleader

#285
I haven't used bias in months but are you saying that bias amps used in jamup are higher latency now, or when using just straight bias?

Bias was always too high of latency for me. But bias amps imported into jamup, with no other audio apps running (including bias) and set to lowest latency was ok enough. But if latency is too high when using it like this then something must have went wrong with updates along the way.

Elantric

#286
After the latest updates BIAS +Jamup XT has became a sluggish crippled toy

(See post: Steps to reproduce High Latency  above)

myksara

#287
This report breaks my trust in ipad software.
We spend money buying and trying out these apps (most importantly hell lot of time installing learning and getting those to work the way we like) only to find that an update has screwed stuff leaving us at the mercy of a further software update!

I was anyway never pleased with any of the guitar apps on ipad for lush arpeggio like cleans with no overdrive what so ever. The higher notes (1st string onwards) always sounded plastic/artificial. Nothing in comparison (only cleans is what I am referring to) to even a simple zoom G1Xon thats just 100$ with a nice looper.

There was a time when I was so overwhelmed by the idea of possibly taking the ipad as my multiFx and amp sim for smaller live gigs and I spent so much time or rather days together trying and buying different apps without any serious guitar playing at all.

I guess it is an addiction and this is pushing me to buy the new Yonac guitar app claiming so many things.  ;D

With my GR55 its so cool and nice to be playing and being creative! It also sounds much better than any ipad software out there IMHO.
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Ringleader

#288
Tried JamUp this morning with a Bias amp loaded. At first, it did seem that the latency was a little bit longer and was kinda noticible. So I checked the latency setting and it was set to ultra low. I switched it to low, then back to ultra low and that seems to have brought it down a bit. It is still not as fast as a dedicated hardware multi but I don't think it ever was. Try it and see what you think.

mbenigni

#289
I had some surprises with regard to JamUp latency this weekend, too. 

First, I bought ToneStack (just the base product at the $5 intro price) and Flying Haggis - impulse purchases really, but I wanted to see if they felt any better than JamUp had the last time I used it. 

Flying Haggis: very low latency, and I love the no-nonsense simplicity about it, from the single-screen UI to the fixed, well-documented CC MIDI programmability.  I.e. have your controller send the specified numbers, done.  Keeps the software simple so there's very little learning curve.  The whole thing is sufficiently spelled out in about 2 pages of text, which includes a nice introduction concerning the developer's design philosophy.  Having said all that, I'm not personally crazy about its tone, and it is perhaps just slightly too simple for my needs: e.g. I could use at minimum a good OD/DIST in the effects chain, and a more flexible reverb.  But if the developer revs. the app to these or other ends, I hope he doesn't compromise his vision of a simple, one-screen amp sim.  It's extremely uncommon these days, and refreshing.

Then I tested ToneStack, and the default Texas Blues tone kind of blew me away - night and day after Flying Haggis.  I turned up the Reverb Mix, turned down the Reverb tone a bit, and was instantly happy.

Then the weird thing:  I wanted a comparison, so I ran JamUp.  And (drumroll please) the latency was.... fine.  I don't understand it.  I tried several amps, and while I was aware of latency (in other words, aware I was running a software modeler), I heard nothing that would have justified my comments of last week. One major variable: on Friday night I installed the upgrade to iOS 7.13, but based on all I'd read, I actually expected that to make matters worse, not better.

So who knows?  Maybe the f/w update purged memory in some way that a cold boot doesn't?  Maybe in a short while JamUp will start acting up again?  Maybe they ALL will?  In any event I bought the ToneStack Motherload and I spent the rest of the week happily working there.  I can't say yet which I like better of ToneStack vs. JamUp.  JamUp allows for deep editing via Bias, but Tonestack wins me over by virtue of one simple feature I'd been looking for high and low:  a tape deck with a continuous pitch control knob - not just semi-tones.  Learning covers recorded in the 50's and 60's, for instance, this is a serious help.

mbenigni

#290
Elantric - I see in your post above that you were running 7.12 as of last week, not 7.13.  Have you tried the iOS upgrade yet, and if so, have you seen any improvement in JamUp latency?  It may be that I spent a lot of money on amp sims this weekend without actually needing to...  Ah well, not the first time, not the last.  :)

Ringleader

#291
I'm still on 7.1.1 while 7.1.2 is waiting for me to install. There is a 7.1.3 already or are you guys running betas?

Elantric

#292
QuoteElantric - I see in your post above that you were running 7.12 as of last week, not 7.13.  Have you tried the iOS upgrade yet,

AFAIK the very latest IOS Version available to consumers is IOS 7.1.2 (11D257) and that's what I'm running.

mbenigni

#293
Quote from:  Ringleader on July 07, 2014, 09:17:15 AM
I'm still on 7.1.1 while 7.1.2 is waiting for me to install. There is a 7.1.3 already or are you guys running betas?

I'm def. not running a beta.  It must be that I installed 7.1.2 this weekend and have since gotten confused. (I Googled iOS 7.13 before posting and got results, so mistakenly assumed...)  It's weird that I wasn't notified of the upgrade to 7.1.2. until just this weekend, but anyway, apologies for the misinformation!

Still stands that latency in JamUp was OK during quick testing after the upgrade, but I will circle back and try Steve's step-by-step test ASAP.

whippinpost91850

#294
Mark, Thanks for the review of Tonestack, I ended up not getting a chance to fool with it this weekend. Glad to hear you apparantly have sorted out the Bias latentcy in JamUp. Paul

mbenigni

#295
Happy to share my thoughts, Paul.  As for the latency in JamUp/ Bias: as a rule, whenever I "fix" something without understanding the cause of the problem to begin with, that fix is temporary at best.  :)

Elantric

#296
At least I have documented the reproducible Steps which bring high latency to BIAS/JamupPro XT.

In my discussions and research on this problem , frankly I'm surprised to hear these comments

1) "In BIAS  - just enable "Ultra Low Latency"
   On my system, BIAS only offers these choices:  "Latency = "Normal" or "Low" - I have this set to "Low"

    Reminder, its over on Jamup Pro where I have these choices:  "Ultra Low Latency - "On" or "Off"  - I have this set to "On"



I was also surprised to discover folks who say they never tried using BIAS along with Jamup Pro - so they never see the problem. Apparently BIAS alone is fine for their IPAD Guitar Amp needs.

I say BIAS remains a  half baked app with no MIDI control and no FX  - its only until you launch BIAS within Jamup Pro that you have a working Live Guitar system - but its annoying that anytime you want to adjust the amp, you must "do the Positive Grid dance"  by heading back to BIAS alone (which disables Jamup pro's FX and "go dry with no FX) anytime you want to tweak amp settings. its not very productive as I need to always go back and forth and back and forth from BIAS to JAMUP, then back to BIAS, then back to JAMUP - and each round of Amp Editing BIAS amps under Jamup Pro renders higher latency 


Ringleader

#297
Elantric - Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I still get the impression that you are using both apps (bias and jamup) at once. Once you have created an amp in bias and exported to jamup, you no longer need bias running in order to use the amp. You only need bias for the deep editing.

I see bias as an amp workbench. I create amps and tweak them and test them. Once I like it, I export to jamup and save as a preset. For playing, I only open jamup (not bias) and the bias created amp is in there to be used with jamup effects and lowest latency. If I decide that my bias amp needs a tweak, I open it in bias to test and tweak, and then repeat as necessary.

Elantric

#298
QuoteOnce you have created an amp in bias and exported to jamup, you no longer need bias running in order to use the amp. You only need bias for the deep editing.
Thanks - but in my workflow I'm always Adjusting my amp - typically Cab Mic placement and cant do that without BIAS running along with Jamup ProXT.

But I find the BIAS+Jamup documentation for running both together (necessary for my workflow) to be either "Missing in Action" or an evolving array of loose threads of ever changing confusion, rumor and innuendo.

http://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us


http://www.positivegrid.com/jamup-help/

http://www.positivegrid.com/bias-help/

mbenigni

#299
I agree that the schism between Bias and JamUp is kind of a drag.  It would be nice if Bias behaved like any other in-app purchase in JamUp, allowing deep editing if it were purchased, locked otherwise.  Even if that feature incurred latency when in use, at least you'd be able to tweak an amp without having to completely reset your ears vs. whatever effects you were just hearing in context.  Bias and JamUp are awesome, impressive applications, but not entirely practical.