FTP - Wireless Connectivity problems

Started by Cez Nov, June 18, 2014, 04:02:06 AM

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melodymann

Hi Albertas,
Yes it happened with both units.
I am not returning it a second time.
I am using it into an older MacBook Pro.
Yes I am doing live gigs.

Honestly I think other people are having the same problem, they just might not notice because of the situation there in, maybe they're mixing it with the normal guitar signal etc. anyways I'm still a little skeptical of wireless technology... Just me.

Regards Terry

Cez Nov

I am also mixing it with a normal guitar and trust me, my issues are so huge it is impossible to play a whole song without tons of missing and sustained notes. It is awful.

Anyway what I noticed today is:

- my FTP is very delicate when it comes to position of controller to receiver. I may play in one position and everything works ok, but if I move even 15 cm problems starts to appear. And I am still sitting 1 meter from the receiver :/
- it looks like it makes a difference how fast and accurate I play. If I play as clean as possible and quite slow the connection is much better. But if I start to play very fast and very badly the connection suddenly gets worst.

I am planning to make a video with multiple cameras to show excactly how the playing and position affects the connection.

melodymann

That's just unacceptable , I would contact Fishman and tell them you need a new one, tech-support is very good. it would probably be no problem.

Terry

shawnb

We've covered so many topics here, I think we need to take them one by one.    Some thoughts.   

(1) Have you ever gotten a positive response that your battery is fully charged?   I do suspect that extremely low power could be a problem & alter connectivity performance. 

(2) Your notes above for re-pairing are incorrect.  You you cannot pair by hitting the receiver button 2x or the controller button 2x.   You must press each of them once - the order is not important.  It's possible you have never actually tried re-pairing. 

(3)  It's also possible your hub is a problem - or - what you're sharing the hub with is a problem.  Have you tried plugging your FTP into each of your available USB ports direct?  That step is necessary to eliminate other conflicts.

(4)  Is it possible the controller in your initial video has unacceptably high interference - that IT is the problem?

(5)  Lots of VST hosts have issues when flooded with MIDI data - a clock, continuous controllers, PBs, etc.  Have you tried isolating the FTP connection to ensure that something else is not flooding the USB port?

You're definitely losing connectivity, and this is clearly very unusual.  You need to step thru a systematic way of eliminating possible issues (1) power, (2) your USB hub/configuration (3) other software running (4) other gear nearby.  Failing that it may really be an FTP issue... 

But given this is unusual, and given it's happened for more than one FTP, I think it's in your setup somewhere... 

Just some thoughts....   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Cez Nov

#29
This is a video showing you my connectivity issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S05eEt5iMzE&feature=youtu.be

1) Yes, my battery indicator FTP is fully charged.

2) From the manual: "To temporarily break the connection, press either of the LED buttons. Both LEDs will resume blinking at their former faster rate. Press either LED button to reconnect." Aren't those the correct re-pairing steps? But even if not I've just re-paired it like you said (when I pressed the receiver button once, then pressed the controller buton once) and the problems are the same.

3) Ok I didn't check all the available USB ports, will do that. I don't use a hub.

4) I don't really know what controller you are refering to.

5) The connection stability is independent of VST. I have issues even if no application is opened (neither Fishman App or DAW) and I do not play the guitar (look at the end of the video).

shawnb

2) Thats not the 're-pair' process, that just temporarily breaks the connection.   To pair, you must press both. 

4) I'm referring to the big game-controller looking thing in your initial video.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

#31
My 2 cents -

I Paired my FTP Controller ( the part that mounts on the Guitar) to the FTP USB Receiver once last year - and never touch the button on the USB Receiver at all.

I tossed away the stock FTP charger, preferring to use the AC Charger from my Galaxy Note 2 Android phone which is 5V @ 2100mA - which helps maintain a full charge for the FTP Controller Battery.

My procedure at gig is

1) I turn on my FTP Controller, the LED on it light up a steady glow

2) If Im using my Macbook Pro, I power it "on", and after I see the main OSX screen, I insert the FTP USB Receiver into the side of the MBP and Without touching ANY Buttons, the  FTP USB Receiver's LED glows steady indicating a good connection with the FTP Controller ( no flashing LEDs on  FTP USB Receiver, no need to press any buttons on  FTP USB Receiver)     

3) I launch the FTP Control Panel GUI App, play the FTP - and the  FTP USB Receiver's LED remains steady constant Glow - never see any flashing LED or any  flickering LED corresponding to how fast I play.




Albertas -

My questions are?

* Why are you pressing FTP Receiver button to "connect and disconnect" at every gig?  - I Never do that , as the FTP Controller <> FTP Receiver always "auto connect" after both sides have been powered up".

Cez Nov

@shawnb

2) Ok I will remember that but honestly it doesn't really matter. I did the same tests with proper re-pairing and it works exactly the same.

3) During the test from the video this controller was turned off so it doesn't matter

I've just check another USB port - same problems. I will try another one but I don't think that it is the problem.
@Elantric

I am re-pairing because the Fishman Support suggested me to do this every time. But as you can see it doesn't really matters if I re-pair or not - the issues are always present.


Spider

Albertas:
As I told you: change for new unit. This one has definitely problem with transmission.

Cez Nov

I am waiting for the response from support to be sure. I don't want to make another pointless exchange...

Cez Nov

Hi again,

It looks like my problem is solved although I cannot be 100% sure before playing a regular outside gig. But now in friendly enviroment it looks fine.
It appears that my USB port was the problem. Since I use a small PC for live gigs (not a laptop) it has a regular mATX motherboard inside with a lot of USB ports.
It looks like only few of them works properly with FTP. A lot of them have issues. I made some tests and found one USB port that is 100% solid (for now).
Since my motherboard has more than 10 USB ports it wasn't easy to test them all knowing that all my other devices have to work properly too.

I also found out that only one type of USB extension cable works (made by ACCURA). Other brands always give some connectivity issues.

I will let you know in few weeks how it works outside.

Elantric

Glad to hear you found the problem.
If you know the make /model of your PC motherboard, I can probably tell you which USB  port is the preferred one for FTP use.

Cez Nov


Elantric

http://www.cizgi.com.tr/vfiles/pms_dosya/2/rampageiiigene_en.pdf

Use these USB 2.0 ports in Yellow on your ASUS Rampage III Gene MoBo - they will provide the best path for the FTP Receiver


Cez Nov

Now I use port USB12. I will check 34 if I still will be having problems. May I ask how do you know which USB ports are the best for FTP?

Elantric

#40
I review the ASUS Rampage III Gene owners manual for the mobo, and made sure I located the USB PORTs that are directly connected to the Intel ICH10R Southbridge chip

So any of these are good:
USB 1,2,3,4

and avoid the NEC USB 3.0 ports. and R.O.G (Asus Republic of Gaming) Connect port

Cez Nov

Well for me all the USB2.0 are connected to ICH10R chip :)

Or maybe I am missing some part where there is specified which one of those are connected DIRECTLY and which are not...

Elantric

#42
Just use a low order USB port
Typically USB #1 is best

Typically USB #11 is worst

and avoid the R.O.G port and NEC 3.0 ports

and review any shared IRQs - try to use a USB port that is not shared by something else, like the PCI Bus controller







and if you can  - from the Start menu type
MSInfo32.exe

Below reveals my Dell workstation's ideal best USB2.0 port is "3B34" using IRQ 23 alone, and it reveals IRQ 23 is not being shared by anything else, thus no drop outs when using USB port 3B34.

The Mobo BIOS and / or the Owners manual can tells me which physical USB port is "3B34"   

Cez Nov

I cannot see how to check which physical port is for example 3A38 (this is the that shares no IRQ's)... of course I can rely on the manual where there are all the physical USB ports IRQ's, but I wanted to be sure.

Elantric

#44
typically if the FTP is connected you should be able to view its properties in Device Manager 

also
This tool might help -
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/map-and-troubleshoot-your-usb-ports-with-microsoft-usb-view/


Microsoft USB View


Cez Nov

Ok, I played several gigs and came to conclusion.

Apparently it is very important to which USB port FTP is connected. I guess it doesn't matter if you use laptop since there are only 4 port maximum and they are all well separated. But in a desktop it is a lot different and for me the best USB port was the first one on the motherboard. But it didn't solve the problem completly. I must put the usb receiver on the extension cable and place it close to my guitar to make sure no notes will be lost and the signal is stable. In this configuration it works fine! So beware desktop live users!

gitarrensalat

#46
In my case an external HD caused connection problems, when it was plugged in at the same time.

It seems to be a misbehaving USB device, though I had not noticed any problems with it, before I bought the FTP.

So this is another point to consider, if anybody has connectivity issues.

gitarrensalat

Some thoughts about FTP connectivity...

My biggest source of trouble was a USB 3 drive - now I disconnect it before I switch the controller on.

Now and then I'm still getting lost connections. Maybe interference with wifi, since the FTP is also using the 2.4 GHz band.

Has anybody tried to change the radio transmission channel?

When I did the firmware upgrade, I noticed the "Channel" setting in the "About" dialog, just above the "FW update" button (hold the CTRL key while opening the About dialog).

Initially it was set to channel 58 (I have the EU version). The maximum valid channel number is 79, higher values are not accepted. When I change the channel, it takes a few seconds until a new connection is made.

Im just guessing, but this seems reasonable: Probably the FTP is using the same frequencies like bluetooth, because there are also 79 designated bluetooth channels. Bluetooth devices switch the channel 1600 times per second to find collision-free slots. FTP has a fixed channel setting. It was mentioned somewhere else in this forum, that the FTP has a lower latency than bluetooth. I guess this can only be achieved by using a fixed channel.

I already switched off bluetooth on my Mac mini. I don't want to switch off wi-fi, but I could try to use non-overlapping channels for wi-fi and the FTP.

Bluetooth channels and their frequencies: http://www.mybluemac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/nrhnn1s.png
WLAN channels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

My default channel 58 is transmitting on 2.460 GHz, which happens to be very close to WLAN channel 11, that was chosen by the auto-channel option of my wi-fi router! Time to switch channels... :-)

I will observe and post my experiences...

WARNING: For manual wi-fi config you should stick to the non-overlapping channels mentioned in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
The channels in between (2-5, 7-10, ...) should never be used, because they are overlapping with other channels.

Elantric

#48
FWIW - based upon reports here on the forum - it appears Fishman TriplePlay users in EU countries experience greater tendency for the FTP to loose sync with the FTP USB Receiver.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11545.0


Here in California, Ive been using my FTP  with FTP USB Receiver connected to iPad Apple USB Camera adapter and triggering IOS synths at home and few live gigs since Spring 2013 with no problems 

gitarrensalat

#49
Quote from: Elantric on February 10, 2016, 11:30:34 AM
FWIW - based upon reports here on the forum - it appears Fishman TriplePlay users in EU countries experience greater tendency for the FTP to loose sync with the FTP USB Receiver.

Maybe the USA version has a different default channel setting, which is less prone to interference.

The web interface of my WLAN router has a nice display of radio energy on different channels. For the higher frequencies there is less radiation.

Routers in the USA normally don't use WLAN channels 12 and 13 for safety. Because manufacturers in the EU want to export their devices, this is also true for most routers here in Europe. Therefore FTP channel 79 could possibly be a good choice in the USA and in Europe as well.

I tried 79 yesterday and hat no connection problems, no hanging notes etc.