GR-55 VIA EFFECTS LOOP

Started by tsantos8, May 27, 2015, 06:37:37 PM

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tsantos8

   Has anyone incorporated their gr 55 into the effects loop of there amp? Just wondering how it worked out as generally distorted sound should not be used in the loop. Thanks in advance.

imerkat

People have been using the four cable method with the Gr-55 through the FX loop of an amp with great result. It really depends how your amp's FX loop works

tsantos8

#2
And what exactly would the 4 cable method be? I have a Fender mustang v head and cab.


imerkat

just plug the mains from the Gr-55 into the FX loop. A four cable method would include you modding the GR-55 with an FX loop to make the 2 additional cables. so first cable goes from the GR-55 send -> amp input; Amp Send-> GR-55 Return; GR-55 mains -> Amps return.

vablows

Just make sure you aren't trying to get good synth or acoustic tones out of that, won't happen.

tsantos8

When you say don't try to get good synth or acoustic tones that way do you mean the mains from gr55 into FX loop or the four cable method?

Elantric

#6
He means this:

Amplification recommendations for DSP Guitar Modeling systems
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=230.0
Common hurdle Electric guitarists face when using VG/GR gear

Traditional Guitar Amps loaded with Electric Guitar speakers are the wrong tool for the job for faithful reproduction of Synthesizers or Modeled Acoustic Instruments

Play your MP3 Player into  an Electric Guitar Amp and listen - you will notice a "lack of high end", other midrange peaks, and possibly distortion audio issues when using a Speaker cab designed for Electric Guitar  - its not going to faithfully reproduce your GR-55 sounds - and might lead down a road of pain, should you spend months tweaking patches for that guitar rig , then find yourself in a situation as opening act using a borrowed amp or forced to use a DI box straight into the PA - you might wonder why nobody hires your band  - because you boosted the GR-55 High end EQ to compensate for your inferior audio monitor system ( Guitar Amp/Cab) 


I'm just informing the facts of that a Guitar Amp with Celestion V30 Speaker has issues - not saying anything is "wrong", just know it has limitations, with its -15dB rolloff on the low end and -30dB drop above 7.5kHz -  - your Audiophile friends would shudder!

http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/


If you expect to hear perfect Pianos and Orchestral sounds, you wont. - This will negatively impact your overall GR-55 experience.
http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/understanding-frequency-response-


Look here for recommended Full Range  / Flat Response (FRFR) amplifiers

VGuitar Forums > Other Related Gear > Amplifiers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=37.0
   
You want your live tone to match the same sound you hear using good Headphones directly connected to the GR-55/VG-99.

I use Sony MDR-7506 ( or the superior Audio-Technica ATH-M50) headphones, and I can dial in great Acoustic guitar sounds from the GR-55 or VG-99.
Bottom line its "garbage in = garbage out" - if you have bad sound in your Headphones   - then no external amp is going to make it sound better.       

Human hearing range is 20-20Khz frequency response.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range

The best amplification systems will have flat response 20-20kHz freq. response speakers and lots of headroom(= watts!) , to support the VG/GR Synths.

A good test for any amp is bring your  iPod and play back some of your favorite pre-recorded music you know  well - and see how that translates on the AMP under review.

If you only do electric guitar modeling then a system with 80-8kHz frequency response works, but Acoustic guitars , Synths , BAss,work best with flat 20-20kHz  frequency response.

Old school "pre 1980s" Bass rigs had 30-8kHz range, modern bass rigs with HF Horn tweeters extend this range to 20kHz 
For any DSP guitar modeler with a DAC (Digital to Analog Convertor) on its final output  - (KPA, POD, VG, Digitech RP,GSP,Zoom G series,etc) ) you need massive headroom to fully hear the intended tones, and keep up with the other guitar player playing a real tube amp. Using a DSP Amp modeler into a tube amp, will restrict and compress / distort the available range of tones, and guitar speakers have that limited 80-8kHz Range.

Using a solid state power amp with low wattage (under 50 watts) will typically clip and distort early and have significant problems recreating the punch of a tube amp , but there are exceptions (see below)

The numbers on paper seem incomprehensible, but it can take a 500-1000 watt amp driving flat response speakers to match the "punch" of a 30 watt Tube Guitar Amp.

Most folks go for the all in one self powered PA speakers available today

Many "FRFR" (Full Range / Flat Response)  amps can sound very bad with Modeled guitar, with demonstrable over sensitivity in the high frequencies to distort  - rather like the sound of "rice crispies" with constant sputtering with every note played on the guitar.
Roland AC-33, AC-60, Crate Limo,  suffer these HF distortions when used as an amplifier for GR-55 /VG-99 and played loud. Mostly its the low wattage internal power amplifier that is "clipping" and making these bad distortions.


Often this can also be due to overloading the receiving preamp on the powered speaker. Watch for any "clip" LEDS to be flashing on the powered speaker, and lower the Master Output level on the GR-55 / VG-99.

I would refer any GR-55 / VG-99 user to review the list of recommended  Flat Response /  Full Range  amplification system in the Amplification Systems area of the forum.

Today I use the following.

All Amplification Systems on this list below are known to be able to be played very loud with no distortion or weird High Frequency breakup anomalies.



For small portability flat response and stereo for low volume rehearsals,  Polk HitMaster (100 watts - but feels like a 10 watt tube amp) (Im looking for a 2nd one!) 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9459.0

For loud gigs with minimal transport grab and go- I use the clean "JC-120" channel or MP3 input on a Roland Cube 80XL. Sometimes bring two for stereo. Reasonably flat and decent sounding despite a single 12" speaker.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6471.0

When i have more transport room I have a Traynor K4  - many of us use these, but its larger and heavier which plays a factor as I get older.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=720.msg3217#msg3217


Back in 1998 I used to use a pair of JBL EON 15P, but I wore them out by 2004 ( woofers need replacement)
http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLEON15P
http://reconekits.com/jbleonpower15.aspx

Ive had good luck with a pair of cheap Behringer B212A (now discontinued and replaced by B212D) 
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROLIVE-B212D-1-35-inch-Compression/dp/B002C4N8TM/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1379165283&sr=1-1&keywords=b212A

and I have a pair of EV ELX112P which I use for band PA with a separate mix board ( Yamaha 01V or Phonic Helix 18 (the phonic has 16 channel firewire to a macbook for gig recordings )
Direct from VG-99 Sub XLR Output or GR-55 1/4" Output, I found the Behringer B212A's worked better because the ELX112P really needs a hot signal (from a mix board) to get the SPL up 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5698.msg42907#msg42907

I would also add these Full Range Flat Response (FRFR) systems to the list.

Alto TS110A
http://altoproaudio.com/products/ts110a


Alto TS112A
http://altoproaudio.com/products/ts112a

( or the similar Alesis Alpha 112
http://www.alesis.com/alpha112


Alto SXM112a
http://altoproaudio.com/products/sxm112a


RCF NX12SMA
http://www.rcf.it/products/pro-speaker-systems/nx-series/nx-12-sma

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/54795-rcf-nx-12-sma-vs-ev-elx112p-first-thoughts-mini-review-2.html

Yamaha DXR
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/speakers/dxr/


http://jblpro.com/products/portablesound/prx/prx512m.html


vtgearhead

I'll put in my $0.02 for the QSC K10s.  They're at the costly end of the spectrum, but sound terrific.