GR-55 - What no compression?

Started by Dewittian, January 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM

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Dewittian

I've looked for it but even with gumtowns software couldn't find compression in my GR55.  Of course there's no limiters either.  I did my last CD using Native Instruments 'Guitar Rig 4' for my affects and now I'm trying to go live without having to run my DAW as backing tracks.  Is that why several of the forum members have a VG99 also?  Anybody else use something besides a Roland unit on their tracks...
Gear:
Laptop windows 10
GR55
Tascam US1800
Ibanez with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

Elantric

#1
QuoteI've looked for it but even with gumtowns software couldn't find compression in my GR55.  Of course there's no limiters either. 
RTM - I load the GR-55 Owners manual in Adobe Acrobat Reader, and simply CTRL+F to bring up the search tool.
Observe the GR-55 Signal routing flow




See GR-55 Owners Manual Page 43
In the "MOD" guitar effects effects block, there is the Comp and Limiter:


See GR-55 Owners Manual Page 50
In the "MFX" effects block, there is a Stereo Compressor:




In regards to FX signal flow re-positioning, the GR-55 lacks flexibility -
thus explains why i use a separate Guitar processor, and use GR-55 for Synth tones only.   

QuoteAnybody else use something besides a Roland unit on their tracks...

Sure - For important recordings I use a real amp or my Kemper

gumtown

#2
Have you heard the term RTFM??  ;D
I suggest reading the GR-55 user manual atleast twice through.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

shawnb


To this day I have the manual in PDF form on my desktop & I suggest trying that, so it's very easy to get to.  Actually I have MANY manuals readily accessible on my desktop (VG99, GR55, Amplitube, Sampletank, FTP, FC300, RC300, RC50, JM4, GR30, SC880, XL1, M3R, etc.).   

Almost all of these .pdfs are searchable - pop it open, ctl-f & search.  (Only real old manuals, e.g., my SC880 manual, is scanned & unsearchable.) 

Play with tech, you gotta read & solve puzzles a lot...   


Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Dewittian

Thanks guys.  I read the manual a few months ago front to back but it looks like I'll need to head your advice.  My thinking back then was that the manual covered such a complicated piece of equipment with so little information that I accounted the manual as useless.  You guys ever use Native Instruments 'Guitar Rig' or any other P.C. based modeling for studio?
Gear:
Laptop windows 10
GR55
Tascam US1800
Ibanez with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

Elantric

QuoteYou guys ever use Native Instruments 'Guitar Rig' or any other P.C. based modeling for studio?

Sure - many of us have Ni Komplete that includes GR5, but those questions are best answered at the Native Instruments Guitar Rig forum

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?75-GUITAR-RIG

shawnb


I went with Amplitube for my FTP rig.  Felt less 'sterile' than GR, though it also feels like a slightly less mature product overall.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

#7
All these Virtual Guitar Amp apps keep improving with each new release, so I can no longer say "I prefer brand x over brand y"

Ultimately its boils down to "Usability at the live gig"  - how well does a piece of gear/software integrate with my live rig with all the controls I need and the response I require. (zero/low latency, Zero audio dropouts during patch changes)   

Dewittian

It seems like a lot to keep up to date with all the STUFF.  I'm a minimalist at heart so I'm trying to get enough technology to the point that it doesn't interfere with the joy of playing.  I guess I come from old school where I used to get just one guitar and one amp and a real mic.   Then I'd take and add 1 or 2 things like a stomp box for delay and chorus/flange. 

I'm not saying that the guitarist of today shouldn't study the tech.  I just think that taken too far and it might influence your ability to be creative.   There are those moments where I get creative WITH the technology.  It's a trade off, I need to learn enough tech to be comfortable using it live.  If I was really wealthy I'd spend all kinds of time becoming an expert at every tech I can.  The way it's been lately I have very limited time and have to balance music with the rest of life.  I have to balance my time with tech with my time actually playing, exploring, and writing music.
Gear:
Laptop windows 10
GR55
Tascam US1800
Ibanez with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

Dewittian

If anybody does use NIs' guitar rig and the GR55 do you notice any added latency or drop-outs coming from either setup?   What version of each?
Gear:
Laptop windows 10
GR55
Tascam US1800
Ibanez with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

shawnb

#10
The short answer is no discernible latency for either Guitar Rig or the GR-55.  I've used GR3, GR4 & GR5. 

Slightly more depth...  Latency & related issues such as dropouts, pops & clicks occur when you are resource constrained.   At a very high level, you can be resource constrained in 3 ways:
  -  CPU maxes out
  -  Memory maxes out
  -  Disk I/O maxes out

Running audio software such as GR on your PC you can run into any of these, and it's up to you to configure it appropriately and take steps to ensure these things don't happen.  Having newer-faster gear really helps; having a good motherboard really helps (over time, you will have more issues with larger PC manufacturers that build their own motherboards); dedicating/configuring your PC for audio purposes really helps. 

The simplest & most important configuration is the latency setting on your audio driver.  Set too high, you will hear latency.  Set too low and you will hear pops & clicks.  These clicks are due to your CPU maxing out, because at a very low latency setting you've asked it to do too much in too short a time window and it can't keep up.

You can also max out on memory and/or disk I/O if you run too many software packages at the same time that are dependent on a lot of disk.  This mainly happens with ROMplers - synthesizers that use lots of large high-definition samples.  If you max out your memory by loading too many large synth voices, your OS will put some of it on disk and try to swap it back and forth as needed.  Your synth needs that in memory for rapid access.  Once page swapping occurs, you're hosed. 

Zero dropouts, pops or clicks on the GR-55 after much use.  Since it is dedicated hardware, that's how it oughtta be.  If they had dropouts or clicks, that would be a deeply serious design flaw, as they have 100%control over the whole signal chain. 

That, my friend, was the 10,000 foot version. 

Another thread on PC audio configuration here, in the FTP subforum:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5188.msg57783#msg57783

To learn more about it you need to Google articles on 'configuring your PC for audio processing', and focus on articles that feature your software & hardware vendors. 


Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

ritchie

Hi, I'm new here and live in Bulgaria..   Can anyone tell me whether the compression / comp, on the GR55 is in the same league as in my VGA77 (which I love) but it's impractical to gig with, as others have said here, because of the sheer tonnage.

I am just in the process of buying a GR55 and roland ready GC1 strat, and I want to use my Peavey Transformer 112 for guitar.. It has no compressor, and so I would probably only use the GR55 for compressed guitar fx as well as the synth tones of course..  I find that the Peavey Transformer gives me all the Fender Twin, Marshall and Mesa sounds that I need.

admin

#12
I suspect a train wreck awaits feeding GR-55 output into Peavey Transformer

while feeding GR-55 into the VGA-7's rear "EXT IN jacks [L(MONO)/R]" jacks  should be a joy
http://www.rolandus.com/products/vga-7/


Remember Roland Boss COSM Modeling has advanced substantially since 2001 ( when the VGA-7 was new) 

Read the recommended Amp types here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=230.0

ritchie

Hi, and thanks for the very prompt reply..
I only wanted the straight guitar signal to go to the Peavey Transformer, and not the synth, (which I could still do from the strat out jack) but it now dawns on me that the compressor and comp fx are in the COSM guitar signal path.. driven by the hex..and not accessible by straight guitar signal in..   :-(  Oh well.   I shall just have to buy a decent compressor..   

The VGA77 is deadly to carry, and I only use it at home.. The VGA77 stereo ins I have found to be a bit flat (I know the signal path is not eq'd) but it's a bit uninteresting and lacks bass unless I put a mixer on the inputs and eq it that way. More gear of course..

The COSM 55 guitar sounds don't interest me so much, and I have GK2 and 2a pickups, GR30 and Axon AX100 as well as Starr Labs Ztars and much better sounds from my Yamaha CS6r, Kurzweil and Triton racks.
Really, I just wanted to use some simple GR55 synth voices whilst gigging live and also use the midi out to drive my Digitech harmoniser.. Simplifying my onstage setup now seems to make a lot of sense after schlepping tons of gear around for decades..

I also liked the idea of trying out the GR55 wave USB stick, and see if that made sense for playing back my sets.. Carrying a laptop seems crazy to me, which is why I don't want to go down the Fishman triple play route...
Just now I use midi files played from a Korg i40m with hard disk option, but am growing tired of that..  Everything goes thru a decent PA with subs, mid horns and tweeters and a 15" with tweets and mids on-stage floor monitor anyway, so I see no improvement in changing that setup for anything else unless in-ear tech worked well at the volume levels I need to play at without deafening me any further :-).

Decisions decisions..

DreamTheory

Quote from: Dewittian on January 24, 2014, 08:50:06 AM
It seems like a lot to keep up to date with all the STUFF.  I'm a minimalist at heart so I'm trying to get enough technology to the point that it doesn't interfere with the joy of playing.  I guess I come from old school where I used to get just one guitar and one amp and a real mic.   Then I'd take and add 1 or 2 things like a stomp box for delay and chorus/flange. 

I'm not saying that the guitarist of today shouldn't study the tech.  I just think that taken too far and it might influence your ability to be creative.   There are those moments where I get creative WITH the technology.  It's a trade off, I need to learn enough tech to be comfortable using it live.  If I was really wealthy I'd spend all kinds of time becoming an expert at every tech I can.  The way it's been lately I have very limited time and have to balance music with the rest of life.  I have to balance my time with tech with my time actually playing, exploring, and writing music.

These are issues that I have puzzled through to some extent. GR-55 and other tech gives us TONS of options under one lid, but of course we don't have to use them all. There is nothing wrong with just sticking with one amp model for a long while, or or using three or four select goodies to enhance your natural pickups, and then working on your songwriting. Pat Metheny and others have said that every patch is like a totally new instrument. It takes time to get to know how it responds to your touch, where the sweet spots are, how it sounds against other instruments in your studio, or the people you play with, etc. etc.

But how cool is it, when you realize you just want a touch of glockenspiel and you have it available? Or how cool is it when you can generate a string section right on the fretboard on the fly. Or when you are in a rare mood and want to totally break out of the normal? So you have your main go-to sounds, and vast potential for variation.

As to being really wealthy and collecting tons of tech. Well, sure, more money gets you better stuff. Better stuff will help you hear more, play more accurately, inspire you to practice, develop your taste. and generally make you a better musician. On the other hand, more tech means more time spent  learning tech., so be careful what you wish for. It's a balancing act between using what you have and knowing when to go to the next level, no matter how wealthy you are.

As to keeping up. Well, again, my fellow minimalist, one simple way to solve this problem (and the problem of not having enough money to amass yet more tech) is to simply wait for the next generation of stuff to come out, then scoop up the stuff that is being discontinued on clearance or Craig's List. Let the trail blazers try the stuff out and be your field testers.

As to what works live. It depends on what song you are doing. Cover band that needs a horn section for "Bodyguard?" sure, go for it. But playing a solo cover of "Piano Man" using PCM piano controlled by guitar might just be a little dorky looking. Give it time. Your gigs (including any place you play in front of people) will sort you out. I basically only do guitar-ish stuff live. I am even thinking of reverting to my good old Digitech RP pedal for live use, since the bar I play in is so noisy that the subtleties of GR-55 are lost, and the church I play in does not require more than a few simple sounds. Then my precious GR-55 can stay safe and snug at home, where it is the jewel of my rig, and I make extensive use of all it has to offer. Except the looper and the USB stick- I never bother with those two things.

I knew a guy who made his own bamboo shakuhachis. He had a ball. I'm sure by now you've seen the guy who makes and plays a carrot flute before a live audience. Saying "just use what you got" sounds like silly advice, because how could you use what you don't have? But the intent here is more like "be satisfied with what you have chosen." or "focus on being in the moment not on the gear or lack thereof."

Skill level is a good indicator of if it is time to upgrade. At a certain point that beginner guitar with poor intonation up the neck and horrid string action was hampering your development. But, on the other hand, a noober who spends several grand on a high end custom built guitar is not going to suddenly play or sound better.

As to minimalism. For me GR-55 has been an exceptionally minimalistic choice. In my case it was a huge money saver. For a long time I used it exclusively for drums & percussion, bass, and all sorts of other instruments. I still do not even own an actual guitar amp. It is also minimalist in terms of the space. Yeah it is large for a pedal, but compared to a closet full of tubas and timpani drums, and a tangle of pricey stomp boxes. Nothing wrong with specializing in a few areas, but GR-55 stomp boxes are not just crude approximations, they have more depth than some real stomp boxes.

Well I hope this encourages you. Get to know this wonderful resource for all it is worth to you. If you have generalist tendencies, or broad needs, and are just more comfortable playing from a fretboard, this thing is a gold mine. Good luck and let us know how it works out for ya.

electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

Elantric

This seems relevant to the discussion
Joe Craven Project - Music Empowerment for the masses
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18215.msg129647;topicseen#msg129647