Author Topic: Supervee Bladerunner  (Read 25879 times)

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Offline admsustainiac

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #175 on: August 10, 2014, 07:30:56 PM »
post a pic of this "buffer pad" - never seen one on the Mag-Lok I have.

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #176 on: August 10, 2014, 07:51:33 PM »
I'll attach a screen shot but it's clearer if you watch the video starting at about 3:30. Super-Vee's website claims "The Mag-Lok has been carefully engineered using Rare Earth magnets.  These magnets will hold the bridge from pulling forward when string bending force is applied, but will transparently break free when you use the whammy bar.  When pulling up on the bar, the Mag-Lok floats freely in the bracket." Then you add the information I posted " if you are hearing or feeling a detent when bending or returning, you should try a different/thicker buffer material." I found this interesting and potentially useful but I don't have the gear on hand to test it.

 ! No longer available

P.S. In thinking about the Mag Lok I was trying to find some information on vibrato bar forces. This article doesn't address that but it is interesting and it helped me understand how the Mag Lok works. Figuring out if the piece is accurate is for the engineers among you who have the chops to analyze it; I sure don't.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0102088&representation=PDF

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« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 01:06:05 PM by Vade »
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Offline musicman65

Re: Re: Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #177 on: August 11, 2014, 12:48:33 AM »
I got one of these when I got my blade runner. Its in a bag in my toolbox right now. Hey if Jimi Hendrix didnt need one ...I think I can get by without one in my guitar. The blade runner holds its tuning good enough for me and I can do double stops that dont sound out of tune to my ears. This magnetic thing is non essential IMHO.
Country pickers hate floating trems due to double stop stability issues but they ring out some pretty precise bends. Sofor guys that want floating trems and double stop stability, they use a trem stabilizer. I generally bend both G and B together so they will stay in tune either way. There isn't a fulcrum based  floating setup on the planet that doesn't de-tune on double stops. Its just not critical in blues and rock as Hendrix demonstrated.

Also, most rockers and surf music players don't want the notchy feel of a stabilizer. IMHO....it is physically impossible for a stabilizer to do its job and not feel a notch. It has to offer greater resistance at the zero point to resist going flat. The laws of simple mechanical physics apply. The tension is nonlinear and you feel it. I use the old tremsetter device and I don't mind the notch but I also have guitars that are full floaters. Either is fine.

BTW...Jimi got by without a hex pickup too but I'm not giving mine up! I'd like to think Hendrix might have been a Vguitarist innovator, like our friend Vernon, if he was breaking on the scene today!!!

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #178 on: August 11, 2014, 09:23:39 AM »
@ it is physically impossible for a stabilizer to do its job and not feel a notch


I've been looking into the Mag Lok and various vibrato bar styles to use with my first 13 pin gear and a check goes into bank today so I can move from theory to practice.

There are lots of reports of the Mag Lok improving tracking with FTP/13pin. It also has been reported to allow both up and down vibrato arm use. (1)

So there are clear benefits to using a Mag Lok but many find the center indent to be so unpleasant that they don't use it. Super-Vee claims that a bothersome center indent is the result of using too small of a "buffer pad" and this is the first time I had become aware of this possible fix. Super-Vee seems to be claiming that the center indent can be reduced to negligible levels while retaining its bridge stabilizing abilities.

When I look at the vibrato bar as a lever, it seems likely that the force applied to the Mag Lok is greater when using the bar, vis-a-vis the force applied when bending strings. If I'm correct then that force difference is the "window" in which the Mag Lok operates. So perhaps it is possible to reduce the force required to break the center indent to comfortable levels while still maintaining bridge stability during bends. I'm going to pick one up because I'm interested in its FTP/13pin benefits and hopefully I can reduce the center indent to reasonable levels by changing the padding.


(1)
Reply #74

Adding the SuperVee Maglok really improved all my floating Strat style trem guitars.

It allows me to use the whammy bar both directions (up and down)  - yet provides an important "stabilized" bridge (when I dont touch the tremolo bar) that i can FINALLY Palm Mute just like playing my  Les Paul without making the guitar go sharp while resting my hand on the bridge.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3912.50

Reply #25

It works great, completely transparent when you move the bar down, has no effect when you pull up, and is reasonably transparent if you're moving from a dive through a pull or vice-versa.  The only comprimise is that it feels a bit clunky when you're doing subtle stuff near the zero point, e.g. shaking chords.  You can feel the magnet finding its detent and it's a little distracting.

and reply #32 from the same thread

  Although I typically adjust the tremolo so it only pushes downward, as I tend to plant my palm at the bridge when picking which presents problems with floating tremolo guitars for me. Only Floating Trem guitar I can play with a stock Strat bridge is one that also has a SuperVee MagLok, which secures the bridge at the "zero point" with a powerful magnet that allows me to do heavy palm muting yet the guitar remains stable and in tune like a Hard Tail Strat, but I can still bend upwards on the bar when needed.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4565.msg35224#msg35224
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 09:32:48 AM by Vade »
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Offline mbenigni

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #179 on: August 11, 2014, 09:43:04 AM »
Quote
Super-Vee seems to be claiming that the center indent can be reduced to negligible levels while retaining its bridge stabilizing abilities.

The key word here is "negligible" which is not the same as nil.  Players will all differ as to what is and isn't "negligible". This guy's review is pretty accurate IMO:

Quote
It works great, completely transparent when you move the bar down, has no effect when you pull up, and is reasonably transparent if you're moving from a dive through a pull or vice-versa.  The only comprimise is that it feels a bit clunky when you're doing subtle stuff near the zero point, e.g. shaking chords.  You can feel the magnet finding its detent and it's a little distracting.

Actually, I'm not sure where you got that quote, but that may even have been me LOL.  I always misspell "compromise" like that.

Point is, not every player cares about that fluttery, shimmery, chord shaking stuff, and the ones that don't will tell you the mag lock is perfect.  And it is, for them.  When you bend a string, it applies the same kind of force you apply with the bar, just less of it.  The MagLok can't discern a difference, i.e. it can't defy physics.  If it had no effect on feel, it also wouldn't work.

I happen to think it's a fine product, you just need to be realistic in your expectations.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 09:46:17 AM by mbenigni »

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #180 on: August 11, 2014, 09:51:05 AM »
Hehe, yes that was you Marc! The point is have you tried using a thicker pad? I never claimed the center indent would be zero but it may become acceptable. It's not my claim in any case, it's Super-Vees, and since I want the FTP/13pin stabilization anyway I'm going to test it and see if they're lying corporate hucksters or responsible manufacturers.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

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Offline mbenigni

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #181 on: August 11, 2014, 10:12:02 AM »
Hehe, yes that was you Marc! The point is have you tried using a thicker pad? I never claimed the center indent would be zero but it may become acceptable. It's not my claim in any case, it's Super-Vees, and since I want the FTP/13pin stabilization anyway I'm going to test it and see if they're lying corporate hucksters or responsible manufacturers.

I haven't tried it yet.  Still don't 100% understand what it is, to be honest.  I'll have to hit their website and investigate further.

Either way, no question SuperVee are responsible manufacturers and not corporate hucksters.  :)  I think their bridges are great, and the MagLok is definitely very helpful for some playing styles.

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #182 on: August 11, 2014, 10:14:21 AM »
Just reread reply #176 above and it should clear up with the pic and video.

P.S. Just read your GP-10 review and looking forward to more!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

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Offline mbenigni

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #183 on: August 11, 2014, 10:20:53 AM »
Just reread reply #176 above and it should clear up with the pic and video.

P.S. Just read your GP-10 review and looking forward to more!

Got it, thanks.  It's been a while since I looked at my MagLok, but I feel like there wasn't any sort of pad on the end of the pin at all.  Maybe that's something they introduced in a later manufacturing run.  (I was a pretty early adopter.)  I'll check it out tonight.

Re: the GP-10 review, glad if my verbal diarrhea can be of some use, or entertainment, or distraction at least.  :)  I'm never at a loss for words, that's for sure...

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2014, 10:25:55 AM »
Well it looks like a pretty quick and easy mod so hopefully it'll be of some use to you when you try it. After the GP-10 sirens are done with you!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

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Offline CodeSmart

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Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #185 on: August 11, 2014, 02:09:48 PM »
When I first installed my Mag-Lok I didn't liked it because when I let go of the tremolo arm, it went back to its natural position with a noisy "clonk" sound. But it stayed in tune alright while bending.

So then I took a pair of scissors and some of the self adhesive pads you put underneath the legs of furniture not to mess up sensitive floor adding this as a soft cussion between the two magnets and scraping it to suitable thickness with the scissors (a millimeter makes big difference), I got the desired "strength" of the return force and the "clonk" sound disappeared.  Its a strat with 009 strings. No it feels very good. I now allows me to do fine smooth tremolo, and yet it allows bending without out-of-tune.

Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Offline Vade

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #186 on: August 11, 2014, 02:13:50 PM »
Perfect! Real world feedback sure beats all this theoretical guesswork. Thanks for sharing that CodeSmart.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

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Offline Elantric

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #187 on: August 11, 2014, 02:17:10 PM »
Thanks Codesmart!
Supervee must have recently updated the Mag-lok added "damping pads" to the Mag-lok - I own 3 of them, and none included these pads.

Thanks for posting your DIY solution - I'll clone this idea and add pads to my own Mag-Loks asap!

Quote
So then I took a pair of scissors and some of the self adhesive pads you put underneath the legs of furniture not to mess up sensitive floor adding this as a soft cussion between the two magnets and scraping it to suitable thickness with the scissors (a millimeter makes big difference), I got the desired "strength" of the return force and the "clonk" sound disappeared.  Its a strat with 009 strings. No it feels very good. I now allows me to do fine smooth tremolo, and yet it allows bending without out-of-tune.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 02:18:43 PM by Elantric »

Offline merman93

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #188 on: January 06, 2015, 11:15:24 AM »
Kahler has rummaged through their warehouse and found a few bundles of NOS trem stabilizers, very similar to Goeldo design , but much better components. They listed them on Auction for $20.00 a pop. Very good deal for anyone looking for a stabilizer for fulcrum style terms.

http://www.wammiworld.com/Drop%20stop%20details.php
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 11:19:16 AM by merman93 »
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Offline Elantric

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #189 on: January 06, 2015, 11:35:31 AM »
Thanks Merman93 !


$23 with shipping!

http://www.wammiworld.com/Drop%20stop%20details.php

 

Kahler Tremolo Stop Details

Mounted in the spring cavity between the 2nd and 4th springs to the wood, the tremolo stop uses a ball point (on the left end) to ride smoothly on the side of the main block. The ball point is exactly like a ball point pen.


 In this picture, imagine your guitar flipped over, in your lap, with neck going <---left, the trem stop is oriented as you see here between the 2nd and 4th springs and mounted to the wood underside, the ball point is butted up against the lower block side. The block, under string pull, wants to pull to the right, but the Trem stop ball point is in the way. The ball point shaft is extended out making contact with the block and in a sense, fending it off. (like pushing a boat away from the dock with a pole)

The shaft is extendable or retractable via the adjustment rings. Once mounted, you extend the ball point shaft Kalher Trem Stopinto position using the adjustment rings. As you extend the shaft, the block gets pushed further back, like you're fending it off farther away.

From the topside view, if the guitar was on its back, when you see it, the tremolo is at a slightly tilted back angle but as you fend off the block more... the tremolo rights itself to a more level playing angle. This is where you want it to be. After all is set up and and playable again, you will notice that the arm still dives as usual, but the pull back stops at the set level position. This way as you rest your hand on the back of the trem while palm muting or during normal chops, the tremolo wont go out of tune and waver. Why spend more for a tremolo stop when this is so simple to set up, and inexpensive!. Only $19.00 each. A cosmetic note: These trem stops have been sitting around for over 20 years in open trays. They were dirty and grimy as you might suspect. I have since cleaned up all the units using a vibration unit. Thus they now have a very clean, "scrubbed" look. no worries, its hidden in the spring cavity and its just cosmetic. Click here to order one.
http://www.wammiworld.com/p8470.php
Fits all Fulcrums! Kahlers, Floyd's, Fenders, Wilkinson's... ANY fulcrum design .
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 11:37:10 AM by Elantric »

Offline alexmcginness

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #190 on: February 01, 2015, 08:38:30 AM »
When I bought my Blade runner I ordered the stabalizer as well. I hated it so much that it still sits in the toolbox to where I banished it. It works but its not transparent. Ill give up perfect double stop tuning for the feel of a smooth tremelo. The blader runner does what its supposed to do and whith the nut sauce they sell it is as good as a locking system IMO.
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Offline cplm

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #191 on: March 26, 2015, 02:17:30 AM »
FYI

The new BladeRunner's design should give even more sustain!

https://www.super-vee.com/whats_new.html

Quote
If you've learned anything about Super-Vee, you know that the patented Blade is the heart and sole of our trems. The frictionless, hyper-conduit design thrusts tone and sustain through every ounce of your guitar body.

We challenged ourselves to pioneer better ways to increase the "tone-to-body" connection and in doing so, we redesigned the Blade.  The former Blade, while performing very well, was only secured a short distance into the anchor plate and bridge plate.

What we wanted to do was make a solid connection between the guitar body and the tone block.  This new design allowed for a full-plate sized Blade that is not only part of the fastening system on the body, but also secured tightly to the tone block.

The result was a big jump in tonal clarity with better sustain, on an overall more stable platform. The new Blade design is available now on all right-handed, nickel finish BladeRunner's (both 6-screw and 2-post models) but the new design will be migrated to gold and black models in the near future.


Offline jwhitcomb3

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #192 on: June 16, 2015, 10:53:51 AM »
Just installed a Blade Runner on a MIJ Fender Aerodyne Strat. It has the long blade, but I'm afraid I can't compare it to the old short blade.

Sounds great, well made, stays in tune really well. A little stiffer feeling than a vintage strat trem, but I'll trade that for tuning stability.

I add my thanks to Merman93 for his post about the Kahler Tremolo stop.

Offline admsustainiac

Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #193 on: October 10, 2017, 05:41:55 PM »
looks familiar


http://www.musicradar.com/news/vega-trem-may-have-just-reinvented-the-floating-tremolo
VegaTrem may have just reinvented the floating tremolo
By Michael Astley-Brown (Total Guitar, Guitarist) 2 days agoGuitars

Double-action vibrato system fits in Strat-style guitar’s existing cavity
 
 
 
 
We see a ton of Kickstarter campaigns for wacky ideas here at MusicRadar, but few have impressed us quite so much as the first product from VegaTrem: a floating tremolo/vibrato system that fits any Strat-style guitar with no modification.

The double-action VT1 UltraTrem vibrato is a downsized unit that fits in a guitar’s existing tremolo cavity, allowing it to bend strings up and down, but without micro tuners or any modification to the block system.

Made of stainless steel, the UltraTrem promises smooth movement and strong tuning stability, while its low profile means your whammy won’t get in the way of your playing.
Two-note bends and chords stay in tune to boot - just watch video ace Tom Quayle in action above.

The whole thing looks to be surprisingly straightforward to install, too, judging by the company’s handy installation video, and comes in both standard and two-point trem configurations.


The VegaTrem VT1 UltraTrem is available to order now from Kickstarter for €248 (£220/$290 approx).






Offline rolandvg99

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Re: Supervee Bladerunner
« Reply #194 on: October 11, 2017, 04:35:39 AM »

The VegaTrem idea looks a lot like the old flawed Fender Elite tremolo system. Looks like a full contact blade running across the entire socket made to bind like crazy after a few years.


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