OT: How Apple ruined my day as a musician

Started by pasha811, September 24, 2017, 10:09:25 PM

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rolandvg99

To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: rolandvg99 on September 27, 2017, 05:00:59 AM
This time it hits OWC/MacSales stuff.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/26/owc-aura-ssd-macos-high-sierra/

Remember the old rule: always wait a while before upgrading to a new OS version; it allows the hardware manufacturers to catch up.

High Sierra came out 2 days ago!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

rolandvg99

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 27, 2017, 06:07:19 AM
Remember the old rule: always wait a while before upgrading to a new OS version; it allows the hardware manufacturers to catch up.

High Sierra came out 2 days ago!

It's been in beta for at least 6 months.

The "fun" part here is that these work on some Apple products and not on others. No wonder Apple won't allow the use of MacOS on self assembled hardware. If they can't make things work on sub 1000 different configs, how would they have handled millions?
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

alexmcginness

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 27, 2017, 06:07:19 AM
Remember the old rule: always wait a while before upgrading to a new OS version; it allows the hardware manufacturers to catch up.

I learned that lesson when XP first came out. My rules of thumb are

Never upgrade to any new OS unless there a need to do it. Some new app that isnt supported on your current OS that you feel you cant live without

On windows OS...always wait until at least the first service pack comes out.

If it aint broke...it doesnt need fixing or changing.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: rolandvg99 on September 27, 2017, 08:28:19 AM
It's been in beta for at least 6 months.

Put yourself in the hardware manufacturer's shoes: a beta OS is buggy at best, and constantly changing.  The final release might not even be available until days before official launch, and you have to develop a robust driver update.  Quite the challenge!  Most manufacturers will lag the official launch, some by 6 months or more.

Quote from: rolandvg99 on September 27, 2017, 08:28:19 AMThe "fun" part here is that these work on some Apple products and not on others. No wonder Apple won't allow the use of MacOS on self assembled hardware. If they can't make things work on sub 1000 different configs, how would they have handled millions?
Are you talking about different hardware platforms with the same OS or different OS?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

#30
QuoteAre you talking about different hardware platforms with the same OS or different OS?

For those sticking to Macs  - Here is an important read -

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/macos-10-13-high-sierra-the-ars-technica-review/



New iMac Pro arrives in December 2017  - but starts at $5K

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/imac-pro/

iMac Pro
The most powerful iMac Apple has ever created, coming in December.

iMac Pro
AT A GLANCE

Announced at the 2017 Worldwide Developers Conference, the iMac Pro is a top-of-the-line iMac with Xeon processors, Radeon Pro Vega graphics, Thunderbolt 3, and a unique Space Gray body.
FEATURES

Xeon processors, up to 18 cores
Radeon Pro Vega graphics
Up to 4TB SSD
Space Gray body
New thermal architecture
4 TB3 ports
December launch date

UPDATED 4 weeks ago
   
Subscribe for regular MacRumors news and future iMac Pro info.

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iMac Pro

CONTENTS

iMac Pro
Design
CPU and GPU
SSD and RAM
Other Features
Thunderbolt 3
10Gb Ethernet
Speakers
Coprocessor
Release Date
iMac Pro Timeline
At its 2017 Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple teased a new desktop computer that's coming this December, the iMac Pro. As the name suggests, the iMac Pro is a workstation class machine that's aimed at pro users with demanding workflows.

Pricing for the iMac Pro starts at $4,999, and the premium price tag should come as no surprise -- this is the most powerful machine Apple has ever built.

It features the same design as the standard iMac, but with an all-flash architecture and a new thermal design that supports an Intel Xeon processor with up to 18 cores and a top-of-the-line Radeon Pro Vega graphics.

The 27-inch iMac Pro is equipped with a high-quality 5K display that supports 1 billion colors and it comes in a unique space gray enclosure with matching (and exclusive) space gray accessories.

iMac Pro features four Thunderbolt 3 ports powerful enough to drive multiple 5K displays at once, and it supports up to 4TB of solid state storage and 128GB of ECC RAM.


Apple plans to launch the iMac Pro in December, and it will mark the first step towards a serious effort to meet the needs of the pro Mac user base. Following the iMac Pro, Apple will introduce a high-end high-throughput modular Mac Pro machine that will support future upgrades.
Design

The iMac Pro looks like a standard iMac, with an ultra-thin slim-bodied design and a minimal footprint, but it is set apart with a unique space gray enclosure and a new thermal design that delivers 80 percent more cooling capacity and 75 percent more airflow to support up to 500 watts of power, which equates to 67 percent more power than the previous iMac.


Like the regular 27-inch iMac, the iMac Pro features a Retina 5K display that supports a billion colors with a P3 wide color gamut. It has more than 14.7 million pixels and a 500 nit brightness level, which is 43 percent brighter than previous iMac displays.

To match its new space gray enclosure, the iMac Pro will ship with matching space gray accessories that will be exclusive to the high-end machine and not otherwise available to Apple users. Those accessories include a wireless Magic Keyboard with a numeric keyboard and either a Magic Mouse 2 or a Magic Trackpad 2.


CPU and GPU

The iMac Pro uses Intel's Xeon processors with 8, 10, and 18 core chips available as optional configurations with Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz and up to 42MB of cache.

Based on firmware files found in macOS High Sierra, the iMac Pro may use Intel's new server-class LGA3647 socket, meaning the machine could have actual server-grade processors rather than Intel's Core-X series Skylake and Kaby Lake chips that use a LGA2066 socket. Intel announced some Purley chips in July, but not a chip appropriate for the high-end iMac Pro.

Intel introduced new Xeon-W workstation-class processors in August, and the new chips, which use an LGA2066 socket and Skylake-SP architecture, come in 8, 10, and 18 core configurations with Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, 48 PCI Express 3.0 lanes, and support for up to 512GB of DDR4-2666 ECC memory. That matches up nicely with what Apple has said about the processors being used in the iMac Pro, so the previous information about Apple's Purley processors could potentially be inaccurate.


With the advanced thermal cooling built into the iMac Pro, it supports AMD's newest Radeon Pro Vega, the most advanced graphics ever used in a Mac. It includes a next-generation compute core and up to 16GB of on-package high-bandwidth memory (HBM2) and 400GB/s memory bandwidth.

It delivers 11 teraflops of single-precision computing power and up to 22 teraflops of half-precision computation performance, meaning it's powerful enough for real-time 3D rendering and immersive, high frame rate VR. The iMac Pro, like Apple's new iMacs, supports VR hardware.

Apple says Radeon Pro Vega is more than three times faster than any previous iMac GPU, packing the power of a double-wide graphics card into a single chip.
SSD and RAM

The iMac Pro can be configured with up to 4TB of solid state storage and 3GB/s throughput. It also supports up to 128GB of 2666MHz DDR4 ECC memory, which minimizes errors in data.
Other Features

THUNDERBOLT 3

There are four Thunderbolt 3 ports built into the iMac Pro, which can power up to two high-performance RAID arrays and two 5K displays at the first time. Thunderbolt 3 supports data transfer speeds of up to 40Gb/s.

10GB ETHERNET

The iMac Pro includes 10Gb Ethernet, the first time it's ever been included on a Mac. It also supports Nbase-T industry-standard 1Gb, 2.5Gb, and 5Gb link speeds.

SPEAKERS

Enhanced stereo speakers are included in the iMac Pro, which Apple says deliver a broad frequency response, rich bass, and more volume.

COPROCESSOR

Files in macOS High Sierra suggest the new iMac Pro will include a Secure Enclave, so it may be equipped with an ARM coprocessor like the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar. That means it might include a Touch Bar with Touch ID support, but Apple has not said that's a feature that will be included.
Release Date

At its 2017 Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple said the iMac Pro would be released in December, but a more specific release date has not yet been provided.

GuitarBuilder

Good review of HighSierra!

Yes, the new iMac is on my wishlist............. :P
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

rolandvg99

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 27, 2017, 12:53:32 PM
...
Are you talking about different hardware platforms with the same OS or different OS?


Different Mac modells on same OS.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner


pasha811

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 26, 2017, 09:08:19 AM
I was not implying that Firewire did not work; on the contrary, I have plenty of Firewire devices that still work fine, because the manufacturers did a good job on firmware or drivers.  Not that lucky with some hardware interfaces.

Got you. Sorry for misunderstanding. I love FW too! :-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

#35
Well, interesting thread came out of my bad day! That's why I love this community.

Let me share with you how I circumvent Apple craziness. In October 2013 I fell for the thin iMac.
It's incredible how they got me. The rational side of my brain was telling me 'do not do it' while the aesthetic branch was in love.
I went with the mid model, 1TB 5400 RPM drive, 8GB RAM 2.9 GHz CPU. I'm an IT professional I knew that that drive was a lemon.
However the rational brain was put aside. The big density on the 1TB 5400 RPM drive will give you fast access and boot times the Genius Bar guy said, look. Bullshitted consciously.  It was good enough for a couple of years then it began to slow down. All of those upgrades were scattering OS along the drive. Then a friend told me, open the iMac put an SSD drive in it. Well I am not as good with my hands as many of you are on this forum so I decided that was not for me (but maybe in the future..) . I took another less risky path. Got a UASP USB 3.0 enclosure and put a Samsung SSD in it. The USB 3.0 bus run at a theoretical speed of 5Gbit/sec so more than enough. The SSD I took was a lame 740 512GB low cost good performances SATA III. Since then I boot from external drive, life has never been so easy and fast.. and cheap... 150 Euros solved the problem of sluggishness. 
Apple charges ridiculous amount of money for an internal SSD upgrade. I know it's a PCIe breed but hey! Take a look at real cost on Amazon.. My iMac has a PCIe SSD candy-bar slot.. but it's in the back so you have to dismantle the whole thing as iFixit shows. The USB external path was better IMHO. Today Applecare has expired. An Apple Certified shop asked for 500 Euro do change the drive and it was only a 256 GB. Maybe one day I will pry open the iMac and do the trick (a simple SATA III SSD inside, it's in the front, behind the display). So that's how I turned my slow iMac into a fast shiny machine. If only the market had Thunderbolt 1 SDD SATA III case I could have reached even higher speeds but what I got is perfect for me.

iMacs still can boot from external drive and the current generation has faster USB-C ports (I do not know if they can boot or you are constrained to USB 3 or Thunderbolt 3) so maybe I'll do it again, without an internal SSD with the Rotational Drive as Time Machine drive.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Quote from: alexmcginness on September 26, 2017, 03:32:37 AM
I had a Mac Book Pro for two years and finally sold it. My W7 PCs do what the Mac does and since I now have a Triple Play I have no need for the Mac at all.
  As far as the OS goes. Why would you upgrade any OS if what you have is doing the job?

Main reason is when OS falls out of support. Mavericks and Yosemite are out of support now and El Capitan is on system patches only. Sierra will have an year or two.
I cannot afford one machine for music and one for general purpose but a dual boot can help, it's like having two machines even if I need internet when creating music, need documents, all of my stuff so a dual boot for now it's not a great idea. I will keep an XP Virtual Machine handy so that VG99 it's future proof. 
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: pasha811 on September 27, 2017, 10:09:03 PM
Main reason is when OS falls out of support. Mavericks and Yosemite are out of support now and El Capitan is on system patches only. Sierra will have an year or two.
I cannot afford one machine for music and one for general purpose but a dual boot can help, it's like having two machines even if I need internet when creating music, need documents, all of my stuff so a dual boot for now it's not a great idea. I will keep an XP Virtual Machine handy so that VG99 it's future proof.

As a matter of fact, my Mac Pro is a dual boot machine, but with 2 MacOs versions: Yosemite and El Capitan.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

frummox

#38
My Mac Pro Tower is a triple boot. SSD drives in three of the bays. I use them for different functions, one for general use, one for music and one to test stuff. Also have drives in two of the PCI slots. I used another PCI slot for a USB 3 card. I came to Macs not from music but advertising. Macs were just what agencies bought for their creative departments. IMHO Apple reached its pinnacle with the Mac Pro Tower. Plenty of bays and easy to upgrade.

alexmcginness

Quote from: pasha811 on September 27, 2017, 10:09:03 PM
Main reason is when OS falls out of support. Mavericks and Yosemite are out of support now and El Capitan is on system patches only. Sierra will have an year or two.
I cannot afford one machine for music and one for general purpose but a dual boot can help, it's like having two machines even if I need internet when creating music, need documents, all of my stuff so a dual boot for now it's not a great idea. I will keep an XP Virtual Machine handy so that VG99 it's future proof.
I used XP for more than a year after support was dropped fot it with no issues. I went directly to W7 only because there was a couple of plugins that wouldnt work on XP.
   I doint think lack of support by the manufacturer is a good enough reason to dump a working setup. Your mileage may vary.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: frummox on September 28, 2017, 10:07:39 AM
My Mac Pro Tower is a triple boot. SSD drives in three of the bays. I use them for different functions, one for general use, one for music and one to test stuff. Also have drives in two of the PCI slots. I used another PCI slot for a USB 3 card. I came to Macs not from music but advertising. Macs were just what agencies bought for their creative departments. IMHO Apple reached its pinnacle with the Mac Pro Tower. Plenty of bays and easy to upgrade.

I agree - my Mac Pro towers are awesome!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

pasha811

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Tony Raven

Thank you, pasha811 et al., for this discussion!!

A few months back, I bought (for like $10) an HP Pavilion desktop loaded with Windows XP, specifically to run my old Magix Music Studio software, & NEVER be allowed to touch the Internet. My friends thought this was proof I'd finally lost the last few shreds of my mind, but there's a madness to my method ;) & now it's pleasant to learn that others hit a similar wall.

A word of warning: do NOT accept Windows 10 Home for studio work!! Last year, I bought a spiffy new laptop, & immediately got into a pissing war with Cortana, which is like Siri on steroids & linked inextricably (almost) to the home edition of Windows X -- even if you manage to keep Cortana from jumping in with "helpful suggestions" at ANY imaginable opportunity, it's still there running, soaking up tons of memory & disk & processor. And the OS likes to upgrade one thing or another whenever you're not doing anything important... with the problem being that "not important" includes things like streaming a program or using Skype or uploading a bunch of big files. ::) I can only imagine what it'd do to studio work, not to mention "calling out" every few seconds to one pimp or another to tattle about what I was doing. >:(

I've used Magix wares since 1998, so the quirks are second nature. Music Studio uses the Logic (pre-Apple) engine, reviewers sometimes actually calling it "Logic-alike"; about all you don't get is the ability to create your own control chains, which I would really like to experiment with but is VERY much beyond my actual needs. I use maybe 10% of its capabilities: basic recording & editing, drum/backing tracks, some mixdown effects. Sure, I can afford to spend maybe $2,000 on a new rig, but there's realy no sane justification (though I might upgrade the soundcard).

FWIW, back in '98, the first thing I learned was to defeat (turn off or remove) all of a PC's "counting" features, like screen savers & automatic "sleep" & such, as well as ANY auto-update B.S.; wow, that crap can really glitch a recording session...

And Music Studio seemed to work MUCH better under Win 95, but I really got tired of the whole Blue Screen Of Death thing, so welcomed XP's stability. Never got around to Vista.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from:  sec6
I hope they (Apple/Microsoft) wake up and realize that there are people that don't want their PCs turned into resource hungry internet appliances.  A good solution for Windows would be a performance mode switch that could turn off all of this resource hogging BS.  Until then, I will use Windows 7.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/pc-optimization-guide-for-windows-7/
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

pasha811

Quote from: Tony Raven on September 30, 2017, 07:04:03 AM
Thank you, pasha811 et al., for this discussion!!

A few months back, I bought (for like $10) an HP Pavilion desktop loaded with Windows XP, specifically to run my old Magix Music Studio software, & NEVER be allowed to touch the Internet. My friends thought this was proof I'd finally lost the last few shreds of my mind, but there's a madness to my method ;) & now it's pleasant to learn that others hit a similar wall.

A word of warning: do NOT accept Windows 10 Home for studio work!! Last year, I bought a spiffy new laptop, & immediately got into a pissing war with Cortana, which is like Siri on steroids & linked inextricably (almost) to the home edition of Windows X -- even if you manage to keep Cortana from jumping in with "helpful suggestions" at ANY imaginable opportunity, it's still there running, soaking up tons of memory & disk & processor. And the OS likes to upgrade one thing or another whenever you're not doing anything important... with the problem being that "not important" includes things like streaming a program or using Skype or uploading a bunch of big files. ::) I can only imagine what it'd do to studio work, not to mention "calling out" every few seconds to one pimp or another to tattle about what I was doing. >:(

I've used Magix wares since 1998, so the quirks are second nature. Music Studio uses the Logic (pre-Apple) engine, reviewers sometimes actually calling it "Logic-alike"; about all you don't get is the ability to create your own control chains, which I would really like to experiment with but is VERY much beyond my actual needs. I use maybe 10% of its capabilities: basic recording & editing, drum/backing tracks, some mixdown effects. Sure, I can afford to spend maybe $2,000 on a new rig, but there's realy no sane justification (though I might upgrade the soundcard).

FWIW, back in '98, the first thing I learned was to defeat (turn off or remove) all of a PC's "counting" features, like screen savers & automatic "sleep" & such, as well as ANY auto-update B.S.; wow, that crap can really glitch a recording session...

And Music Studio seemed to work MUCH better under Win 95, but I really got tired of the whole Blue Screen Of Death thing, so welcomed XP's stability. Never got around to Vista.

In the end everybody should be free to use what works for him. The day Ableton Live will go 'Linux' I will say goodbye to Mac. Bitwig it's already on Linux but I stick with Ableton for now. Linux with a Win7 VM to talk with Roland GK Hardware .. my dream. No more issues. As for now, my iMac runs Mavericks happily and VG99 and GP10 follow this happiness when recorded into Ableton Live :-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

admin

#45
Long time Apple only Audio Interface vendor Apogee announced Windows 10 compatibility due November 2017
http://www.apogeedigital.com/


Matteo Barducci

Apogee supported Windows until 2012 and then resumed support for that plaform in 2016. The professional line of interfaces are still Mac only.
--

---> Matteo Barducci

admin

#47

http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/all/i-am-currently-an-apogee-duet-quartet-owner-can-i-utilize-the-pro-tools-duet-or-pro-tools-quartet-driver-for-windows/
QuoteI am currently an Apogee Duet / Quartet owner. Can I utilize the Pro Tools | Duet or Pro Tools | Quartet driver for Windows?



Sep 10, 2014
No, the Avid Windows driver will only function with the Pro Tools | Duet and Pro Tools | Quartet.



http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/all/does-jam-work-with-windows/

QuoteWill my Apogee product work with Windows?

Sep 9, 2014
Apogee no longer supports Windows for any of its current products.

Our primary objective is to provide our customers with outstanding products and unparalleled customer support. Because Apogee is a relatively small company with limited resources, we've made the conscious decision to focus the full attention of our efforts on developing for Apple Mac OSX and iOS platforms.