Spicetone & GP-10

Started by Brak(E)man, July 09, 2017, 01:42:04 AM

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Brak(E)man

Trying to figure out a pathway into to the GP-10 so I can use the Fx in GP-10 and maybe the Amp section in stereo. ( maybe also the instrument modeling , alt tune , 12 string etc )
In addition I'd get USB recording and reamping etc.



I was thinking of using the polyFx , Rich Modulation FI  in GP using the hex out from Spicetone to hex in GP-10. If this works I should be able to use the fx and amps in GP and dial down the polyFx in GP to zero or to my liking. Since I don't have a Spicetone I can't test this. Is there anyone who can ?

I'm also interested in bypassing Spicetone to use GP like normal , that should work right ?
Can I dial in a preset in Spicetone that lets the signal from the GK PU " through " without affecting the sound from the GK ? Is that the preset 24 ?

My final Q is , what happens when using Spicetone and GP instrument modeling at the same time.
Glitches ?
Sound wise it should be very interesting unless not playable.

Any thoughts ?

Can anyone test these ideas ?

Updated:
I checked the flow chart again
and it reads no filter applied to the Hex out ( read 13 pin )
that's unfortunate to say the least.

I'd wish that was an option along with this

Quote from: chrish on July 08, 2017, 08:21:06 PM

The only things I wish this pedal had were and on off switch and a selector switch so the 13 pin input could be passed on through to the 13 pin output.

Right now the 13 pin output is setup to pass through the effected signal (which can also be clean).

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

chlorinemist

I use an Eventide H8000 for basically this purpose. I considered a GP-10 but eventually decided to go bigger...

What I can confirm is that placing pitch shifters per-string after the distortion for alternate tunings, etc definitely still works just fine. I was worried that it would cause tracking issues to place the pitch shifters after the distortion but that is definitely not the case. The H8000 might be expensive and fancy but it is way older than the GP10 so I wouldnt be surprised if BOSS has similar quality pitch shifting algorithms that also track distorted strings well.

As far as amp sims go, I think using a GP10 amp sim after the 6Appeal would likely not be very satisfying. The 6Appeal distortion is far superior to any digital distortion, period. In my humble opinion... :)

"Bypassing" the Spicetone is very easy in the sense that it is set up for a "clean" preset to always be accessible via the middle footswitch. The clean preset is basically the same as plugging the guitar straight into the GP10, but you still have access to the gain knob (and all the other functions for that matter) which I imagine would be quite useful for fine-tuning your signal into the GP-10.

Regarding the filter not being available on the 13 pin output: yes this is the case. The 6Appeal only has a stereo filter and it would need 7 filters for it to be able to work over the 13 pin or in breakout mode. What I do personally is use a filter plugin (Cytomic The Drop=A+ sounds 100% real) or a hardware stereo analog filter (Sherman Restyler) on the stereo outputs at the very end of my processing chain. I find this provides all the flexibility I need. If I wanted though, I could go ahead and place filters on every single output of the 6Appeal, and have complete control. I've tried this a few times and it's awesomely powerful but for now I've settled on using a single or two stereo filter stages for the sake of simplicity.

Brak(E)man

#2
Thanx

I was planning on maybe using the amps in GP for fx not nice sounds :-)
Your sound doesn't need guitar amps for sure.

So if I understand you correctly you're not using the filters in Spicetone ?
because you're using the 13 pin out , right ?

(Edit: you're using the analog breakout so therefore no filter ? Is that correct ?)

And that's not an issue? The filters in Spicetone aren't essential to the box's sound
but external filters give you the same effect ?

And have you any experience with modeling instruments after going through
Spicetone and hex dist ?

I guess I could try hex dist with GP 10 and reamping it with FI a 12 string Baryton Les Paul
It's not the same since the dist is different and the reamp would be through USB not 13 pin


( OT living in the EU and USa makes me wonder why the listed price in the US is almost 100 € cheaper
than in EU , Sales tax and VAT aside )
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

chlorinemist

#3
Quote from: Brak(E)man on July 09, 2017, 04:20:17 AM
So if I understand you correctly you're not using the filters in Spicetone ?
because you're using the 13 pin out , right ?

I use it in breakout box mode, which allows me to use TRS y cables to connect to 7 1/4" TS (guitar phone jack) inputs. But yeah this mode behaves the same as the 13 pin output.

QuoteAnd that's not an issue? The filters in Spicetone aren't essential to the box's sound
but external filters give you the same effect ?

Correct. The 6Appeal filter sounds great and is awesome for when you're using the mono or stereo output modes, but I use Cytomic's The Drop filter plugin interchangably with it. The Cytomic filter sounds easily just as good, and it massively more flexible than the 6Appeal's analog filter. It can emulate 10 different classic analog synth filter circuits and saturates beautifully. I am very picky about filters and I find The Drop to be indistinguishable from analog. It has very complex modulation routing capabilities, including 2 lfos and 2 envelopes, midi note tracking, step sequencing, etc.

The Auto Filter built-in to Ableton Live was designed by Cytomic and yields the same excellent sound quality. It's easy on CPU too so running 8-16 instances isn't out of the question.

QuoteAnd have you any experience with modeling instruments after going through
Spicetone and hex dist ?

I guess I could try hex dist with GP 10 and reamping it with FI a 12 string Baryton Les Paul
It's not the same since the dist is different and the reamp would be through USB not 13 pin

I process my Cycfi full range, flat response pickups with resonant filters and eq to recreate different pickup response signatures and emulate different types of guitars. I find this method way more powerful and intuitive than the preset-based approach of Roland, Line6 and co. Ideally this would be done with filters before and after the distortion stage but I find that using just one filter stage, after the distortion, works great and does most everything i need.

chrish

#4
Quote from: Brak(E)man on July 09, 2017, 01:42:04 AM
Trying to figure out a pathway into to the GP-10 so I can use the Fx in GP-10 and maybe the Amp section in stereo. ( maybe also the instrument modeling , alt tune , 12 string etc )
In addition I'd get USB recording and reamping etc.



I was thinking of using the polyFx , Rich Modulation FI  in GP using the hex out from Spicetone to hex in GP-10. If this works I should be able to use the fx and amps in GP and dial down the polyFx in GP to zero or to my liking. Since I don't have a Spicetone I can't test this. Is there anyone who can ?

I'm also interested in bypassing Spicetone to use GP like normal , that should work right ?
Can I dial in a preset in Spicetone that lets the signal from the GK PU " through " without affecting the sound from the GK ? Is that the preset 24 ?

My final Q is , what happens when using Spicetone and GP instrument modeling at the same time.
Glitches ?
Sound wise it should be very interesting unless not playable.

Any thoughts ?

Can anyone test these ideas ?

Updated:
I checked the flow chart again
and it reads no filter applied to the Hex out ( read 13 pin )
that's unfortunate to say the least.

I'd wish that was an option along with this
I just did a quick test plugging the spicetone 13 pin out into the VG 99 13 pin in.

I used the clean setting on the spicetone and lowered the volume out as to not overload the vg-99 input.

What I found is, when the gk pup input signal is run through the spicetone, and out to the 13 pin out, that signal picks up noise that's inherit in most analogue pedals. And maybe it's picking up and adding some RF interference.

When that noise signal is passed on to the VG 99, it doesn't translate well for something like a model Jazz 335 or a nylon or acoustic model. But it was just a quick test.Maybe a master programmer could pull it off.

So with the VG 99 the only way that I would use only the spicetone with the VG 99 alone together would be, taking the mono out on the spicetone and feeding it into the quarter inch input on the VG 99 and process that signal through the VG 99 effects.

So using the spicetone and the VG 99 together for best results would require a 13 pin splitter such as the Roland US 20.

I asked the spicetone company about passing the GK pickup input directly to the 13 pinout.

The response was that is a feature that has been requested by other customers and may show up on their next pedal. There is no software solution, however.

For special effects plugging the spicetone 13 pin out directly into the VG 99 13 pin in and running it through the deckard's dream patch, and just processing the noise, sounded like a modulated white noise wave that would be used for something like wind or waves.


GuitarBuilder

If all you want to do is split your GK signal to Spicetone and VG-99, you're better off with Primova's outstanding GKPX-14.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Brak(E)man

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on July 10, 2017, 06:34:57 AM
If all you want to do is split your GK signal to Spicetone and VG-99, you're better off with Primova's outstanding GKPX-14.

My main objective is to use the GP as a stereo input/FX box for the Spicetone.
( all other uses are a bonus but not nessesary )
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

chrish

I did some further testing running the spicetone 13 pinout into the VG 99 13 pin in.

I was trying to figure out why so much noise was getting into the VG 99 from the spicetone clean setting and then my one working brain cell kicked in. ;D

It turns out that the string sensitivities settings on the VG 99 need to be turned down to zero.

With that 0 string sensitivity setting the vg-99 responds very well to the spicetone input, although it does seem to have a little bit of treble roll off which is easily compensated for using EQ on the VG 99.


Brak(E)man

Thanx for the info

I'm curious what happens when you feed VG 99 with a hex distorted input and model something
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Elantric

#9
Quote from: Brak(E)man on July 11, 2017, 01:35:30 PM
Thanx for the info

I'm curious what happens when you feed VG 99 with a hex distorted input and model something

The noise floor of the spicetone 6appeal (when distortion is activated) becomes a bit of a battle with VG-99 COSM modeled guitar tones

Use the GK Noise Suppressor tames the hiss