Author Topic: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?  (Read 25154 times)

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Offline fokof

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 08:04:45 PM »
Carvin is now offering a 20' 13 pin cable for $39

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=C20P13&cid=45

I like the    ;   "....and other MIDI applications"    ;)

Offline gumbo

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Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2011, 07:27:26 AM »
..and if you're outside the USA, the website doesn't allow direct purchase..

...and the listed dealers from Oz are 'minor round' , to say the least...hmmm ::)

...and when you do a site search for the cable, the search results are zero...

...same old, same old.... :P
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Offline LPHovercraft

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »
I just bought a 13-pin cable on eBay - midimusicsales - and as I uncoiled it the wire had a decided un-shielded feel to it. As soon as I connected it - I could tell immediately that it was an inferior cable compared to my "stock" Roland cable that came with the VB unit. Aside from the fact that the aftermarket cable is noisy as hell, the patch-switching functionality doesn't work. So I suspect that there's an issue with the cable. Time to request a refund.

Lesson learned - a $60 cable is not the worst thing to happen to your rig - a bad connection is a DISASTER.



OK - a MAJOR update is due here...

I had a good conversation with the seller, and they offered to send a replacement cable overnight - AND - insisted that the cable had BOTH braided copper and aluminum sleeve shielding.

Let's just say I was dubious.  8)

So I opened up the connectors to see if there was a bridged solder joint - or maybe a ground loop that happens when a cable is grounded at both ends. I figured I could try to fix whatever's the problem easier than going hunting for parts to build my own cable. It's a great Saturday project when you DON'T have two awesome guitar modelers in your studio, taunting you with their multi-colored lights.  :D

What I found was that indeed there WAS good shielding on the cable. But NEITHER end had been grounded t the connector. So I stripped the plastic jacket back about 1/4" from one end and re-crimped the connector. I put the ends back together and plugged the "shielded" end into the GK socket on the VG-99.

VOILA!!

Awesome tone, and dead quiet at idle. *THIS* is what I was expecting. So I sent a follow-up note to the builder/seller and my guess is that they'll double-check all of their cables before going out. :) I'm a QA guy, can you tell?

So I can recommend this seller, but just verify that the cable is fully functional and "road ready" before you give feedback or have to process a return.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 08:19:26 PM by LPHovercraft »
Houston Haynes - LPHovercraft

Offline videorov

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2012, 10:14:20 PM »
Anyone try the Carvin cable they are selling?

Offline Elantric


Offline Toby Krebs

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2012, 09:53:24 AM »
Buy 13 pin from GC-MF etc...take good care of them and don't be concerned about the price. I don't mind paying 40 or 50 dollars for a cable when the device it is for cost from 700 to 1,000 dollars. This is one of those things you just pretty much can't do "on the cheap".My 2 cents. Good luck with your search!

Offline Eds2020

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 05:44:50 AM »

Does anyone know if or where I can get a standard 5 1/4 jack to 13-pin cable so that I can use the effects on my GK-55 with other guitars without having to install a GK pickup?

Would it be easy to make one if they are not avaiable?
Are the stand-alone 13-pin plus available?
To which pins would I solder?

Thanks,
eds

Offline Elantric

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2013, 09:40:54 AM »
Quote
Does anyone know if or where I can get a standard 5 1/4 jack to 13-pin cable so that I can use the effects on my GK-55 with other guitars without having to install a GK pickup?

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5252.0
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 02:08:49 PM by Elantric »

Offline drjoness2001

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »
I bought a 5' 13-pin cable from DET audio, on eBay:

http://stores.ebay.com/DET-Audio/Cables-/_i.html?_fsub=3107425012&_sid=1086932362&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

It was a high quality cable, I paid $17.

Offline billbax

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 04:28:22 PM »
Alternatively, get yourself a few essential parts and make one of these...




* It's a 13-pin oxygen-free copper multi-core with 100% shield coverage (no swish-swish with cable movement).

* Locking 13-pin connectors that disassemble without breaking.

* Straightforward maintenance for those with serious soldering skills.

* Low audio signal core resistance, typically 0.08ohms compared to Roland's throw-away @0.21ohms (2M Cable).

* Parts total: £20.00GB +

* Labour: 5 hours+

PARTS LIST

IEC 13-Pin Locking connectors
http://iec.net/dn13ms-l.html

Flexible OFC audio cores
http://www.rapidonline.com/Audio-Visual/Evolution-XPC-OFC-Professional-1-pair-62370

Hook-up wire for pins 8-13
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Hook-Up-Wire-UL-1007-Flexible-PVC-Insulated-71067

Spiral Binding for easy cable maintenance
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Spiral-Binding-30m-Black-9-6mm-04-5718

Bit and pieces:  heat shrink 19mm black & 12mm. Super Glue. Elbow grease not included  ;D

Bill

www.separate-strings.co.uk
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 01:36:52 PM by billbax »

Offline Elantric

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 09:07:20 AM »
RE right angle Gk13 cables.

I got lucky, was able to obtain one that works very well from ebay a few years ago. It has locking right angle plugs at each end that must be pushed to release the lock.

But be advised that many Ebay sellers have cables that will not work, so plan for failure, Perform a full one to one electrical test of all 13 pins prior to use with Roland gear.

It was a cheap gamble - i recall I paid $20 with shipping

Ebay is like a fish market, every 6 months there are new sellers and new items when you search on "Roland 13 pin cable".

My cable Looks just like this and worked.

But I Must point out my working cable was NOT purchased from this seller below - just showing it to list the pics of the right angle 13 pin plugs.










« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:03:06 AM by Elantric »

Offline datsunrobbie

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2013, 09:50:46 AM »
Steve,
Fully realizing that it still may not work out if the seller changed suppliers, can you provide the name of the eBay seller that sold you the working right-angle cable? I'd rather take a shot with a seller that has sold a good cable in the past than one with no history at all, and always figured the right-angle connector would work out nicer than the straight one for connection to my strat.
thanks!
Robbie

Offline Elantric

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2013, 10:12:11 AM »
Quote
can you provide the name of the eBay seller that sold you the working right-angle cable?


I can not remember, and Ebay really has changed in a very bad direction - I can only "see" purchases made in the last 6 months  - then earlier purchases are now "vanished"

Reminds me of my old posts on the Gibson Dark Fire Forum - All victim of "spring cleaning" and "file maintenance". ;(

But understand most Roland 13 Cables on Ebay are sold by clueless sellers who are actually selling Kenwood  / Clarion Car Stereo Cables and WILL Not work.


So buy these ONLY if you have electronic skills  - plan for failure, Perform a full one to one electrical test of all 13 pins prior to use with Roland gear.
But if you are clever, this cable could be disassembled and reuse the right angle connectors with a properly wired 13 pin cable.

 


 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 10:20:51 AM by Elantric »

Offline 2pods

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 05:18:06 AM »
Maybe "someone"  ;) on here could start a cottage industry: buying, disassembling, fixing, and selling.

I for one would love both a short and "normal" length right angled cable, and with what's charged for the Roland cable, I wouldn't mind paying more.
Fender RR Strat, Boss GP10 , Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay, VB99, Aria Pro II TSB400 w/GK3B

Offline musicman65

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2013, 07:05:24 PM »
I also bought 2 good cables (non-Roland) from a source on eBay. I tried to see who the seller was and the history is gone. :)

Incidently, I set up all my gear at a gig last night and at sound check my Roland branded GK cable would not plug into either of my RR Strats. I played the first 8 tunes on a 1/4" jack out to my VG99 (no synth) while my wife rushed home and hot a spare (that I should have put in my gig bag months ago)

I have not had a chance to check then bad cable but I suspect a few pins are slightly misaligned. It looked OK but wouldn't lock in. I suspect re-aligning the pins will fix it.

bd



Offline GuitarDojo

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2013, 09:34:38 AM »
Checking in for any updates.  :P

Offline MoeSnodgrass

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2013, 07:09:21 AM »
[My GR-55 and cables don't arrive until tomorrow so I'm assuming here that the cable has both one male and one female connector]

The Roland 30 ft cable ($79) is only $10 more than the 15 ft cable ($69). I want to buy the 30 ft and solder my own 15'x2 or 10'x3. I see sources for the male connectors plus the pin out schematic on this thread here: http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5252.0
but I'm wondering:

1. A search in the sources found in that thread returns multiple 13p females. How to be sure to pair the correct male and female?

2. How does the pin out correlate to wire colors inside the cable?

3. Has anyone tested cable length for latency? I would think shorter must always be better, thus my desire to make three 10' cables or two 12' and a 6'.

Thanks,
Moe
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 07:28:24 AM by MoeSnodgrass »

Offline Elantric

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2013, 08:35:31 AM »
Quote
1. A search in the sources found in that thread returns multiple 13p females. How to be sure to pair the correct male and female?

We list several DIN 13 females because most folks are more interested in knowing all the options for Internal GK pickup Installations. These connectors are an industry standard, and employ "Circular DIN" connection - old school MIDI cables are 5pin DIN. Roland GK cables are 13pin DIN. The Cables are Male to Male plugs .  Female jacks are used on the Guitar side and the processor side. 

Quote
2. How does the pin out correlate to wire colors inside the cable?

No correlation  - Its like buying fish on Friday, internal color code varies by the mood of the assembler on the day of assembly. Instead we always rely on "ohming out the cable" by measuring pin to pin with an ohm meter to verify the connections.
 

Quote
3. Has anyone tested cable length for latency? I would think shorter must always be better, thus my desire to make three 10' cables or two 12' and a 6'.

The impact of Cable length on latency is not in the measurable domain for mere mortals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity
 


Roland GK 13 pin cables are Male to Male - wired 1:1

Pin 1 = Pin 1
Pin 2 = Pin 2
Pin 3 = Pin 3
Pin 4 = Pin 4
Pin 5 = Pin 5
Pin 6 = Pin 6
Pin 7 = Pin 7
Pin 8 = Pin 8
Pin 9 = Pin 9
Pin 10 = Pin 10
Pin 11 = Pin 11
Pin 12 = Pin 12
Pin 13 = Pin 13
Shield = Shield

They employ a circular type connector known as a "Circular DIN", in the 13 pin variety. Other gear (like Kenwood/Clarion CD Changers for Automobiles employs this same "DIN13" connector and similar appearing cable, but not wired to the Roland GK standard. Thus the confusion and gamble on Ebay cables

Roland Cables employ "locking" DIN13 male plugs
http://iec.net/dn13ms-l.html



http://www.connectworld.net/cgi-bin/cabled/DN13MS-L



Quote
I would think shorter must always be better, thus my desire to make three 10' cables or two 12' and a 6'.
I will point out that its extremely ill advised to intentionally have multiple potential disconnects in your stage cable.

90% of the anomalous behavior of all GK 13 pin systems can be traced to a poor physical connection on the male or female jack/plug interface. 

(more here)

Roland GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0


Id ALWAYS much prefer one long 30 foot GK13 cable, vs two 15 ft cables with a female to female coupler. Too many potential sources for bad connections   
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:05:59 AM by Elantric »

Offline datsunrobbie

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2013, 10:31:23 AM »
[My GR-55 and cables don't arrive until tomorrow so I'm assuming here that the cable has both one male and one female connector]

The Roland 30 ft cable ($79) is only $10 more than the 15 ft cable ($69). I want to buy the 30 ft and solder my own 15'x2 or 10'x3. I see sources for the male connectors plus the pin out schematic on this thread here: http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5252.0
but I'm wondering:

1. A search in the sources found in that thread returns multiple 13p females. How to be sure to pair the correct male and female?

2. How does the pin out correlate to wire colors inside the cable?

3. Has anyone tested cable length for latency? I would think shorter must always be better, thus my desire to make three 10' cables or two 12' and a 6'.

Thanks,
Moe

If you're planning on soldering connectors to save some cash, you might want to look at a VGA monitor cable instead of chopping up a cable that already has 13 pin connectors. I have not tried it myself, and I have not been able to find specs for the cable Roland uses, so this is purely speculation, but with connectors going for around $4 each and 50ft VGA cables available for less than $15 it is a fairly inexpensive experiment.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201 has a bunch of VGA cables to choose from.

Offline gumbo

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Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2013, 03:23:44 AM »
If you're planning on soldering connectors to save some cash, you might want to look at a VGA monitor cable instead of chopping up a cable that already has 13 pin connectors. I have not tried it myself, and I have not been able to find specs for the cable Roland uses, so this is purely speculation, but with connectors going for around $4 each and 50ft VGA cables available for less than $15 it is a fairly inexpensive experiment.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201 has a bunch of VGA cables to choose from.

I think you'll find that when you chop into a VGA cable that you WON'T discover the 15 identical wires that you expect..    :-[

As part of the 'cottage industry' that surrounds my 13-pin after market jacks that will (finally!) be released next month ..(yes, finally!) ...I am able to construct viable after-market 13-pin cables of custom lengths...    PM me to talk more about it in the meantime if it interests you..   ;)

Gumbo in Oz
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Offline thebrushwithin

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2013, 07:07:17 AM »
That's great news! Are you able to offer right angle plugs for 13 pin?
I just had to replace my Carvin cable, that lasted only 4 months. It is very hard to not accidentally step on the cable, when gigging. I so wish wireless hexaphonic was practical, wouldn't that be a game changer?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 07:12:29 AM by thebrushwithin »

Offline gumbo

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Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2013, 04:47:11 PM »
That's great news! Are you able to offer right angle plugs for 13 pin?
I just had to replace my Carvin cable, that lasted only 4 months. It is very hard to not accidentally step on the cable, when gigging. I so wish wireless hexaphonic was practical, wouldn't that be a game changer?

Thanks...   This endeavour (if that's what is about to happen!  :o ) is just a sideline from the construction of the jacks, and I have made a number of short leads for myself as part of the testing process of the completed jacks.  (One model of the jack includes a pre-soldered 1-foot length of cable.) As a consequence of the R&D undertaken I now have stocks of cable and also (straight) locking plugs.
 
In the past I have investigated the source for the right-angle plugs, but do not stock them at present..  depending on the level of interest perhaps I can go that way in the future, but the priority right now is to get the jacks formally released.

I am with you on the wireless thing though, and with all due respect to FTP and those who can work with it; for me the thought of further adding to a crowded stage with a laptop is not on...  :(

By all means PM me if you want to discuss it at all..

Cheers from Oz
gumbo


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Offline Toby Krebs

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2013, 07:51:21 AM »
The only thing that has ever killed any of my 13 pin cables is stepping on them. They don't like that at all. I always route the 13 pin stuff away from my feet and constantly move it whilst playing "Sweet Home Alabama"-"Brown Eyed Girl"- "Shook Me All Night Long"-" Brick House"-"Ladies Night" etc.... etc....lather rinse and yes....repeat....

Offline whippinpost91850

Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2013, 04:10:42 PM »
The only thing that has ever killed any of my 13 pin cables is stepping on them. They don't like that at all. I always route the 13 pin stuff away from my feet and constantly move it whilst playing "Sweet Home Alabama"-"Brown Eyed Girl"- "Shook Me All Night Long"-" Brick House"-"Ladies Night" etc.... etc....lather rinse and yes....repeat....
Tony, Sounds like our song list, Yes over, and over, and over again ;D

Offline gumbo

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Re: Latest on 13-Pin Cable Sources?
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2013, 06:24:41 PM »
Tony, Sounds like our song list, Yes over, and over, and over again ;D

...yeah...and add in "Come Back Again".....    ::)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...