VGuitar Forums

After many years of no 13-pin twin pedal format V-Guitar processors on the market, Roland has just announced two new ones:

GR-D V-Guitar Distortion: http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1255/475 (http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1255/475)

GR-S V-Guitar Space: http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1256/475 (http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1256/475)

In my dreams, they'd release one just for guitar models, and one just for wave models...

Orren

The GR-S looks promising - but if its $499 MSRP and $399 street - I would just get another GR-55 with our Group Buy.

http://en.audiofanzine.com/electric-guitar-multi-effects/roland/gr-s-v-guitar-space/news/a.play,n.14627.html (http://en.audiofanzine.com/electric-guitar-multi-effects/roland/gr-s-v-guitar-space/news/a.play,n.14627.html)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.premierguitar.com%2FStream%2FStreamImage.aspx%3FImage_ID%3DA1A85C27-F26B-4F2D-A55B-6CE0C7C776AE%26amp%3BImage_Type%3Dimage&hash=618a4affdfbe6e3b38e2e7ca5e34c4eeb1546e31)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcms.rolandus.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fgallery%2Fgr-d_back_gal.jpg&hash=9a86b28ab99ce6ebd9bdebba2dc117aae39611be)

GR-S V-Guitar Space Overview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JVHXNTwfL4#ws)

and GR-D Distortion

GR-D V-Guitar Distortion Overview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4o3lAxPd3g#ws)

I just can't imagine why they would not put a "GK THRU" on these things. ???

QuoteI just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

Probably a result of not wanting to destroy Roland US-20 A/B/Y Pedal sales
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/61 (http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/61)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcms.rolandus.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fmain%2Fus20_main.jpg&hash=9e7ee76089f6d03b01a7a36ffc7894d88cc71de2)
(DIY version is here:)
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/us-20/ (http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/us-20/)


and due to the constraint for this pair of new products to use the existing stock of chassis they built for the old 2001 era Boss WP-20G Wave pedal

(observe the identical Boss WP-20G Wave pedal Chassis below)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fubik.crumpled.com%2Fgearpage%2FGearPics%2Fwp20g.jpg&hash=2d9e244b55873f12a096857fe46928098c54aa95)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqHhrceerJRA1SCuOkYEXNaWWR3U3xBTcK206GeMZvzSnO8_Dtpw)
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=166 (http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=166)
http://ericsgearpage.blogspot.com/2012/08/boss-wp-20g-wave-processor.html (http://ericsgearpage.blogspot.com/2012/08/boss-wp-20g-wave-processor.html)

Compare above 10 year old pedal  with the "new" GR-D here:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcms.rolandus.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fgallery%2Fgr-d_back_gal.jpg&hash=9a86b28ab99ce6ebd9bdebba2dc117aae39611be)

Not sure what the price will be - but it might be more attractive price / performance  to simply buy a used 2001 Roland VG-88 on Ebay

Here's one with hard case for $220
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VG-88-Guitar-Pedal-VIRTUAL-MIDI-SYNTH-FLOOR-MODULE-HARDSHELL-SUITCASE-/121008606148?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1c2caccbc4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VG-88-Guitar-Pedal-VIRTUAL-MIDI-SYNTH-FLOOR-MODULE-HARDSHELL-SUITCASE-/121008606148?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1c2caccbc4)

Could be! Maybe someone could come up with a dongle type device that will split all in a small enclosure. The way it is now if you have more than one GK you can only use one at a time. I know we have talked about this before but if they keep coming out with GK devices maybe it's time to build a splitter that powers the GK off the first device and passes the audio on to another GK in.

Quotemaybe it's time to build a splitter that powers the GK off the first device and passes the audio on to another GK in.

Agreed - or build a DIY "13 pin "Y cord" splitter:

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2222014%2F1407771559_66653251_GK_Spliiter_.PNG&hash=3e249805c282ef2d8a99f9afb9017684ea1db353)

imagine if you could also accommodate a variax / line6 setup...

i think you'd need to have an extra 6 pins to the guitar to switch-box cable.....

it would be a "guitar and pedal switch" to rule them all!

Just a thought here....first Roland rereleases the '07 VG Strat under the G-5 moniker, now they are offering new versions of the GK Twin Pedals.....is Roland going "Back To The Future"?

Elantric....when Roland first released the G-5, my first thought was that they needed to use up all the leftover hardware that didn't get used the first time around due to poor sales of the VG Strat....so you are probably onto something regarding having to use the leftover chassis for the also poor-selling WP Twin Pedals.

For all you VG-99/GR-55 owners....are all of the sounds that these two pedals make contained within the VG-99/GR-55?

-oddguitar

Quote from: oddguitar on November 01, 2012, 10:12:08 PM

For all you VG-99/GR-55 owners....are all of the sounds that these two pedals make contained within the VG-99/GR-55?

-oddguitar

These pedals are clearly based around some of the same sounds and capabilities that the VG-99 and GR-55 have.  While the VG and GR (obviously) have a lot of features the pedals don't, the pedals do some things the more expensive older siblings don't.  The GR-S seems to have a true polyphonic chorus on it: Each string has a separate chorus applied to it.  That's something the VG-99 does not have. The VG-99 does seem to have pretty much all of the features of the GR-D. 

Actually I think the GR-S looks kind of interesting. I would recommend it just for the fact that it seems to have the VG-99's polyphonic freeze feature on it, and that's pretty useful effect.

Quote from: Brent Flash on November 01, 2012, 03:08:21 PM
I just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

Absolutely!  What are they thinking?  Well, I guess they figure that nobody would use more than two GK devices together.

Equally obvious is the idea of sending 6 independent processed signals out of the Distortion pedal to be processed independently in the Space pedal....easily accomplished if this theoretical second 13 pin connector was really a 13pin thru/out port. Maybe they put a switch there to define it's use....

Roland baffles me.  I just keep thinking:  "That is SO CLOSE to being REALLY great."

Quote
Equally obvious is the idea of sending 6 independent processed signals out of the Distortion pedal to be processed independently in the Space pedal....easily accomplished if this theoretical second 13 pin connector was really a 13pin thru/out port. Maybe they put a switch there to define it's use....

FWIW - The SpiceTone 6Appeal hex fuzz is a better tool than GR-D
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12104.msg88081#msg88081
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0253%2F7907%2Fproducts%2FDSC_9827_6AP_and_CABLE_1024x1024.JPG%3Fv%3D1406882087&hash=11ed143a3513e6396fef9c139841468fc279398e)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0253%2F7907%2Fproducts%2FDSC_9822_AP_1024x1024.JPG%3Fv%3D1406882148&hash=10f095e9a9c42540b047f0c1c0389a18b0f80a4c)

QuoteRoland baffles me.  I just keep thinking:  "That is SO CLOSE to being REALLY great."

Agreed -  Although these days it no longer baffles me.  Its By Design!

would be an excellent trio WP-20G, GR-S and GR-D, together would make a kick-ass sound!

Quote from: Brent Flash on November 01, 2012, 03:08:21 PM
I just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

...GK through and 1 feet GK cable to serial conections...

[]´s

I read both writeups above, and honestly cannot tell - are these COSM-based?   Is the GR-S PCM-based?  Or are they basically 6-channel FX?   

If 6-channel FX, it's possible these are deeper than the VG-99 poly FX, & have some value-add over the GR55 & VG99.   If these are 'deeper' poly FX, they might really be something new...

I'm on a bit of a quest...   I'm one of those folks who actually purchased the Gibson Darkfire.  With the software bundle for the DF, there was a series of Ableton/GuitarRig presets called 'Wave guitar' orange/brown, etc. that were excellent.  The voices were built up basically applying GuitarRig distortion & Ableton EQ unique to each string.    The result was a sharp, lush, not-overly-synthy distortion; kinda like skysaw but not as raw.  A nice compromise:  clearly 'guitar synth' but warm.     

I don't like the dependency on Ableton/GuitarRig (how much stuff should I carry around - do I have to add a PC to all that???);  It sure seems the VG99 should get close.  Despite trying, I have not gotten the polyFX distortion to approximate the 'wave guitar' presets.  It's a nice effect, but far too subtle, I can't get the PolyFX distortion to add significant bite. 

I wonder of the GR-D might do the trick? 

WHY????????????????

Regarding "can your existing devices make these sounds" - The distortion - yes, pretty much all of them.

The "space"?  OMG.  With the GR-S Type 4 pad mode - someone's been watching my videos and turned the concept into a pedal!  :)  Should I ask for royalties?  Should Bill???

Seriously, that could pass for some of the stuff I've done timbrally.

And the Crystal mode almost sounded like steel pans the way he was playing it which I've heard Bill Ruppert do on the VG-99.

But there are some other things that I don't think the 99 has:
the lush chorus although I believe I could get pretty close. - they said three choruses?  Well use choruses on A-B plus modulation (slow) and you could get it especially with delay.

Wow...it's kind of like they took some of the features included in the VG-99, but left out of the GR-55, and put them in pedals: freeze function, Poly FX (slow gear, poly distortion, etc.).

They seem to be assuming that someone who likes these sounds is a different kind of buyer than a VG-99 user. I wonder if that is the case, or if this will be a re-tread of the smaller 2001 VG pedals that came and went.

Looks to me like this was the path:

(Top Roland Management) "The GR-55 sales are strong, but due to the weakening USA Dollar to Yen in 2012 (i.e. "inflation"), We need to create an even lower cost entry level 13 pin GK COSM Modelling product line. Team - Go raid the existing stock parts bin and design something for Winter NAMM 2013."


(Roland Engineering) "We can use that new $16 low cost pSOC (System On Chip) with DSP, 6 in  - 2 Out 24bit CODEC, and Embedded MCU, in one IC,  and port the Hex Distortion and Poly Chorus portions of the code from the old generation VG-88 - and have a $68 BOM (Bill of Materials) - and design new GR-S, GR-D PC Boards that fit inside the 10 year old WP-20G Wave Pedal chassis  - we still are sitting on 2,000 inventory of those old prepunched WP-20G chassis in the back of the stock room - and sell these new GR-S, GR-P pedals for $299 - and solve many problems.
     

(Top Roland Management) "Make it happen asap!"

Come on Todd!
There is nothing new there.
Its all in your 99,this is stripped down.

GR-D

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 02, 2012, 09:26:39 AM
WHY????????????????

They want to drive us insane? 

I have an idea though: they might have come up with these (in their minds) that if someone buys these and they like them they might want to drop coin on a 99 or a 55 down the road once they get these.

But, in my mind - if I spent almost as much on a 55 as on one of these I would ultimately think it's kind of limited and might NOT go for additional gear if I spent my money on these so yeah, this doesn't really do anything that new.

Re: Bizzy Buzz Buzz:  LOL!  :)

QuoteLooks to me like this was the path:

(Top Roland Management) "The GR-55 sales are strong, but due to the weakening USA Dollar to Yen in 2012 (i.e. "inflation"), We need to create an even lower cost entry level 13 pin GK COSM Modelling product line. Team - Go raid the existing stock parts bin and design something for Winter NAMM 2013."


(Roland Engineering) "We can use that new $16 low cost pSOC (System On Chip) with DSP, 6 in  - 2 Out 24bit CODEC, and Embedded MCU, in one IC,  and port the Hex Distortion and Poly Chorus portions of the code from the old generation VG-88 - and have a $68 BOM (Bill of Materials) - and design new GR-S, GR-D PC Boards that fit inside the 10 year old WP-20G Wave Pedal chassis  - we still are sitting on 2,000 inventory of those old prepunched WP-20G chassis in the back of the stock room - and sell these new GR-S, GR-P pedals for $299 - and solve many problems.
     

(Top Roland Management) "Make it happen asap!"

Exactly.  But now they need a less expensive Gk pickup for these things to make the price of entry even lower.
Low profile GK4 anyone?  Somehow I doubt it. 

People might spring for a $300 pedal but adding a $200+ pickup that looks rather ugly might give some people pause.

And if they did use a new 24-bit system on a chip what are the audio specs of this versus the VG99/GR55 systems?

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 02, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
I have an idea though: they might have come up with these (in their minds) that if someone buys these and they like them they might want to drop coin on a 99 or a 55 down the road once they get these.

I have nothing but educated guesses. And my educated guess is along the same lines as yours and Elantric's.

Roland has had VG technology for a long time. They've had GK technology for a long time. They've had GR technology for a long time. While some units have done better than others, or done okay for a while, it's never really caught fire in a major way. Roland, however, has watched Line 6 blow up with their modeling line, and you can be sure that smart people are wondering how they can tap into that market.

We here dream of the "everything box," the "premium" product that will include all the routing and features that as longtime 13-pin/GK users, we know we want (and how to use). Roland could make that box, but they know they'd only sell it to us (and those like us). The fact is, only pros and people already "in the know" buy that stuff. Again look at Line 6; they used to sell inexpensive Variax guitars, but now they're only selling premium variaxes, since they found that the kids weren't so interested in them. And Roland really, really wants to sell to the "Line 6 kids" because there are orders of magnitude more of them than of us.

(BTW, let me be absolutely clear I am in no way disparaging Line 6 or their great gear! I used the phrase Line 6 kids not as a pejorative, but literally: young users who are dipping their feet into playing guitar for the first time, and they're picking up the "kidney bean" POD and progressing to other gear. They rule the hobby end of the market)

So while I think that one day, Roland might decide to come out with an everything box, I think they're far more focused on creating as many low cost GK products with minimal barriers to entry as they can. In that context, it doesn't matter if all this stuff exists in the VG-99 or whatever; it doesn't exist in a cheap package, which is the point.

Orren

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 02, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
But now they need a less expensive Gk pickup for these things to make the price of entry even lower.
Low profile GK4 anyone?  Somehow I doubt it.

I don't even think it's the pickup price so much as the fact that most guitarists don't want to fiddle around with installing any sort of additional pickup. I think what Roland really needs is a complete line of low priced GK guitars. Not just Strats. There need to be single cuts, shredder guitars, etc. They need to compete with all the other sub-$500 guitars on the market. Only when young guitarists can buy a "turnkey" solution (that isn't a $1k strat) will it be compelling to newbies.

And as Line 6 found, even that isn't a guarantee the mass market will ever care about hi-tech guitar...

Orren

QuoteAnd if they did use a new 24-bit system on a chip what are the audio specs of this versus the VG99/GR55 systems?

same - Roland has been using 24 bit A/D and 24 bit D/A since the release of the VG-99. Same for the GR-55.

I know in many circles  - there exist folks who still think these parts are precious and golden and the heart of their $2,000 Audiophile DAC with 2 inch thick machined aluminum front panel and volume knob  - but modern AKM 24 bit 1118db SNR CODEC ICS are now $6.00 / each.

Quote from: Orren Merton on November 02, 2012, 02:24:11 PM
     young users who are dipping their feet into playing guitar for the first time, and they're picking up the "kidney bean" POD and progressing to other gear.

Marketing 101: build a strong brand by establishing life-long users. Rule 1: start'em young!

...but this only low profit segment...eventually you need to cater for the "mature " market...that's we're the margins usually are. And the young'ens need products to aspire to... (You know the stuff with everything included that we really want to have.....no neither do I.... They must have stopped going to the marketing classes)

As it was said a guitar COSM unit would have worked well.
Acoustic, Nylon, Sitar and different electrics and tunings would have been what people want and could use.
Maybe that is coming?

Long Live The VG-99.
Its the king.

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 02, 2012, 01:52:03 PM
Come on Todd!
There is nothing new there.
Its all in your 99,this is stripped down.

Pretty much, that's true.  It does look like the chorus sound is, in fact, a polyphonic chorus, which doesn't exist on the VG-99.  I would love to just have some more Poly effect choices on the VG-99.  Perhaps the chorus from this pedal and the polyphonic ring modulator from the VB-99. 

But yeah - Pretty much everything on these pedals can be done with the VG-99...and lots and lots more.

So it seems like we've determined that the most of what these pedals offer is available within the VG-99......so my next question is: is most of what these pedals offer available within the GR-55?  If not, that would make a pretty compelling combo of a GR-55 expanded with the synthy and wave sounds of the VG-99.  Especially for those of us who don't want to buy both the GR-55 and the VG-99.

I agree with others that Roland should make a guitar modeling twin pedal that offers their guitar and bass modeling sounds and tunings.  Part of what has held me back from buying the VG-99 has been the complexity of it, and the fact that I really only want the guitar models, alternate tunings and ambient sounds of the VG-99, since I already have a Kemper for modeling amps & standard effects.

-oddguitar

Trying to chain them in series to other GK ready units is still going to be a problem if you want to use more than one pedal.

well mb someone would get one if looking for one certain feature. regardless its ALWAYS nice to see more gk stuff. maybe they'll be more like this, and one of them will be new/useful. no reason to knock and make fun of our younger gk siblings. other than that bill r pretty much said all. but id like to add, "strat-OH!-caster" and "prOH!cessor".

Quote from: gumtown on November 03, 2012, 01:40:19 PM
Trying to chain them in series to other GK ready units is still going to be a problem if you want to use more than one pedal.

I was thinking I could use the US-20 pedal, but on the Roland website it says "Compatibility with GR-33/30/1/09/50, VG-88/8, GI-10" and "GK-compatible unit selector with one GK-2AH input, two C-13 cable outputs".....does that mean that it's not compatible with the GK3/VG-99/GR-55/GR-S/GR-D?

-oddguitar

I use the US-20 all the time with all the new 13 pin gear too.
Just need the GK -Volume pot always mapped to Volume for it to work.

Details here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0)

The small footprint is interesting, might be nice if Roland made a "Micro-55" without a panel, just patch numbers, and with Bluetooth for control via Android or iPad apps.They would save the UI display hardware cost and make something even more compact. These two seem rather lacking in bang-for-buck though. I'm with the others on the  lack of 13-pin thru. If you're going to make an FX series, seems to me you would want to ba able to use them in series, like standard stompboxes.

So.....can anybody tell me if it is possible to get the sounds of the GR-D and GR-S with the GR-55?....trying to figure out if buying the GR-55 will make the pedals redundant.

Thanks,

-oddguitar

The GR-55 cannot reproduce the sound of the GR-D or GR-S, since it lacks the features like the poly fx and freeze features.

However, the VG-99 does have the ability to reproduce almost of the features of the GR-D and GR-S. The more full-featured VG-99 has poly fx (various poly distortion), freeze features, plus a lot more.

Quote from: oddguitar on November 05, 2012, 07:31:50 PM
So.....can anybody tell me if it is possible to get the sounds of the GR-D and GR-S with the GR-55?....trying to figure out if buying the GR-55 will make the pedals redundant.

Thanks,

-oddguitar

Quote from: vanceg on November 02, 2012, 06:15:22 PM
Pretty much, that's true.  It does look like the chorus sound is, in fact, a polyphonic chorus, which doesn't exist on the VG-99.  I would love to just have some more Poly effect choices on the VG-99.  Perhaps the chorus from this pedal and the polyphonic ring modulator from the VB-99. 

But yeah - Pretty much everything on these pedals can be done with the VG-99...and lots and lots more.

Couldn't you just activate the 12 string function and oscillate the fine tuning to varying degrees per string to approximate poly chorus on the 99? I have a metal rhythm patch with just the top two strings oscillating so the low stuff stays focused but the high harmonies are spaced out.

Quote from: nosaintnick on November 07, 2012, 11:07:56 PM
Couldn't you just activate the 12 string function and oscillate the fine tuning to varying degrees per string to approximate poly chorus on the 99?

Yes, in the assign section, using a wave internal pedal to alter the 12-string fine tune with the gross tune setting at 0 (same note as the input string) possibly using a non-zero 12-string pre-delay function too for extra colour. You can then set different sweep timing and depth per-string like this.

Or you could do the same thing using two identically set-up 6-string cosm channels, except for a similarly modulated tuning "bend" on one of them, I suppose.

Or combine, with 12-string pseudo chorus on each channel plus "bend" modulation on just one channel for 4-way per-string chorus, if there are enough assigns to cover that! :)

Though I guess it doesn't have quite the sophistication of a full chorus effect (which I don't know, but I think might involve some filtering too) you can definitely get some pleasant sounds just using the 12-string method on one channel.

A bit OT (sorry),  the ring modulator on the VG-99: might not be polyphonic, but I've noticed some oddness with it: I have a (cosm only) patch which has strings 5 and 6 with 100% vol and 1-4 with 0% on channel B and the exact reverse on channel A and RM enabled on both channels. If I play a long note on the bottom E and, while it's sounding, a few notes on top E, I can hear the RM distortion on the bottom note as though I were playing the notes on the same channel. Not sure whether that's bleed from channel A into channel B or whether the RM is "hearing" the 0% volume notes on channel B. Kind of a bug, really, I think. I've used it to get some weird effects where the RM harmonics from  a note sequence on A's strings echo out as distortions over long notes on B.

(edited for clarity)

Quote from: kloniwotski on November 08, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Or you could do the same thing using two identically set-up 6-string cosm channels, except for a similarly modulated tuning "bend" on one of them, I suppose.

Or combine, with 12-string pseudo chorus on each channel plus "bend" modulation on just one channel for 4-way per-string chorus, if there are enough assigns to cover that! :)

But that is only possible on the VG-99, the GR-55 has only one "cosm channel".

Quote from: gumtown on November 08, 2012, 11:08:47 AM
But that is only possible on the VG-99, the GR-55 has only one "cosm channel".

Yes, I was replying to a post which specified the "99".

Quote from: kloniwotski on November 08, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
A bit OT (sorry),  the ring modulator on the VG-99: might not be polyphonic, but I've noticed some oddness with it: I have a (cosm only) patch which has strings 5 and 6 with 100% vol and 1-4 with 0% on channel B and the exact reverse on channel A and RM enabled on both channels. If I play a long note on the bottom E and, while it's sounding, a few notes on top E, I can hear the RM distortion on the bottom note as though I were playing the notes on the same channel. Not sure whether that's bleed from channel A into channel B or whether the RM is "hearing" the 0% volume notes on channel B. Kind of a bug, really, I think. I've used it to get some weird effects where the RM harmonics from  a note sequence on A's strings echo out as distortions over long notes on B.

(edited for clarity)

I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

I knew I was opening a can of worms here! :) If I ever get a windows PC and the VG-99 in the same room again, I'll post the patch and you can experiment. In the meantime, I'll re-investigate and if the phenomenon persists, I'll post in a different thread describing it. I don't want to drag this one (any further) off-topic. Sorry!

Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

I've experienced similar issue on the bass....and it can be more evident on some patches.  This is despite the fact that i play finger style, with mainly rest strokes (so there is a lot of natural damping of strings)... on some patches there are even harmonics being triggered....that i can't even replicate on my normal pu!!

i think it all comes down to both playing style and patch settings...and being prepared to play different patchess with a different technique...but I'm still working on this.

If you are new to guitar synths, i think you just have to expect a bit of a learning curve to get settings + technique exact....i hope to get my training wheels off soon!

It's a lot more involved than just adding a stomp pedal...

But feel free to post some tips ...... :D

Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

I posted a horrendous sounding demonstration of what I'm talking about at: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7303.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7303.0) I think you'll agree there is nothing gentle or sympathetic about the sounds therein... :-D

Quote from: oddguitar on November 04, 2012, 07:12:50 AM
I was thinking I could use the US-20 pedal, but on the Roland website it says "Compatibility with GR-33/30/1/09/50, VG-88/8, GI-10" and "GK-compatible unit selector with one GK-2AH input, two C-13 cable outputs".....does that mean that it's not compatible with the GK3/VG-99/GR-55/GR-S/GR-D?

-oddguitar

I think the US-20 ought to work with them. They don't say the US-20 works with the VG-7 either but it does. Also there are multiple threads out here about custom GK splitters up to 4 GK-outs and some that do really nice stuff like give you discrete 6-string output.

It dawned on me recently about one reason why Roland might not be building GK-out in these later things. They never planned on chaning GK in the beginning, and GK is a powered connection. What if you sent juice to something that wasn't expecting/couldn't handle it. IMO it's high time Roland re-imagined GK. They have proven the concept (and we've been great guinea pigs) but the limits of the original spec have been made very clear. Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board. Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but somethimes that's the cost of progress.

Quote from: happyjay on November 10, 2012, 01:48:04 PM
IMO it's high time Roland re-imagined GK. They have proven the concept (and we've been great guinea pigs) but the limits of the original spec have been made very clear. Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board. Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but somethimes that's the cost of progress.

A few comments on your comments:

1) "They have proven the concept..." is not very popular compared to the market for other guitar processors.

2) "Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board..." if it really sells lots and lots of units, which it probably won't because the only guitar-midi device that has proven popular to this point in time is the GR-55 and that if it weren't for the COSM parts, then it would not have been as popular as it is. The number of guitarists interested in midi-guitar is such that midi-oriented guitar products will always remain a niche market.

3) "Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but sometimes that's the cost of progress." And that cost would be unacceptable. For example, I have a lot of GK stuff. And Roland's refusal to update the VG-99 is, in itself, enough to make me doubt that I will buy any more of their units - should they even release anything in the future that piques my interest, which they might not. And the chances of me writing off my current kit and, essentially, starting anew, are approximately zero. It would take, literally, years and years to release new GKv2 gear to give me the capabilities which I now have. And I am not going to spend the money to replace perfectly functional gear.

4) Most importantly, as I think about it, a GK v2 would not have to make all current GK kit obsolete. I can not see why it would not be possible to have a GK-to-GKv2 adapter box, so that I could plug my GK into a GKP-4 (or US-20 or SGUS-3) and have one of those outputs feeding a GK-to-GKv2 adapter, and the rest feeding GKv1 devices. Or connecting the GK directly to a GK-to-GKv2 adapter which would be capable of driving both GKv1 and GKv2 devices.

I can not imagine anything like that actually happening, though. The VG-99 sold horribly. I imagine the VB-99 sold even worse (although I have to assume that that was no surprise, and was probably expected.) The first two GK pedals, from Boss, sold (well, as far as I know) horribly. And these, at the price Roland wants for them, won't do any better. And that in turn will make Roland all that much hesitant to make any more worthwhile GK kit.

Well, whose fault is that that the VG-99/VB-99 sold poorly?  I haven't seen ANY advertising in the last 2+ years (closer to 3-4 in fact) and every time I play out I literally get this from other players:  "how come I didn't know about this?  This thing is amazing."  The price is high but professionals can afford any tool they choose to use but what good are the tools if nobody is aware of them?

At the very least they needed to release a VG-99EX which would have been the same hardware with some updated Poly FX and other bugfixes and then release an ENTIRELY NEW set of patches suitable for todays music as the default patch set.

I suspect someone in Roland involved in the VG-99 development was involved in a social gaffe or dented the luxury limo of some Roland higher up.  It seems politically unpopular to the point where they don't want to bother advertising it or even acknowledge it exists.

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 11, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
Well, whose fault is that that the VG-99/VB-99 sold poorly?  I haven't seen ANY advertising in the last 2+ years (closer to 3-4 in fact) and every time I play out I literally get this from other players:  "how come I didn't know about this?  This thing is amazing."  The price is high but professionals can afford any tool they choose to use but what good are the tools if nobody is aware of them?

I agree with all that, but I wouldn't stop there. It's not just Roland's fault. We all know that the majority of guitarists are chasing old dreams—50 year old guitars through 40 year old amps. Anything modern or high tech is a tough sell. And if you need to install a whole new pickup—something that either makes your guitar look ugly or requires "surgery" on your instrument—that makes it even less interesting to someone who dreams of being Jimmy Page, Van Halen, or Jack White.

My first jobs were in market research and marketing. I have to admit, I've thought about the best way to market this stuff to the "uneducated guitarist masses" and I really can't think of anything. I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that they came up with a marketing strategy as soon as the VG-99 came out, rolled it out when the unit debuted, and when they didn't see an uptick, canned it, using the above as their excuse and MIDI Guitar's track record of never really catching on.

Once again, I share all your disappointment and I too want an everything box, but I also never forget that many little companies (and yes, I put Fishman in there until we see how their Triple Play sells) who dabble in MIDI guitar fail. Roland is the one major company who to their credit, hasn't abandoned this technology. So while I too yearn for more and better, I also am glad they don't just kill it altogether.

Orren

I think the GR-55 is supposed to be to the all-in-one box. But it's not quite "all", having a subset of the VG-99 features, it's not impressing the VG-99 owners like it could. I would forgive Roland if they simply gave us the full MIDI implementation for what it does do.

So the GR-55 offers the following synth-COSM sounds: GR, Wave Synth, Filter Bass, Crystal, Organ and Brass.

The VG-99 offers all of those plus the following: Bowed, Dual, Pipe, Solo and PWM.

The GR-D offers VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, and Synth sounds.

The GR-S offers Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean.

My question is: are the VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, Synth, Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean sounds in the GR-D/GR-S just rehashed versions of what's already available in the VG-99/GR-55 or are they new sounds?

I like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.  However, if most of the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are already in the GR-55, then it would be pointless.

I'm also wondering if Roland has anything GK-related up their sleeve for NAMM, although the appearance of these new GR pedals in November makes me think that we've seen all the new GK gear we're going to see for a while.  A VG-99 replacement is due, but I doubt Roland will refresh the line due to the poor sales of the entire VG catalog with the exception of the GR-55 (a source told me that the GR-55 has outsold all the other VG & GR offerings put together).

I'd really like to see a GR Twin Pedal offering with just guitar models and alternate tunings.

-oddguitar

QuoteI'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.

Really?
http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Roland_Announces_the_GRs_Space_and_GR_D_Distortion_V_Guitar_Twin_Stompboxes.aspx (http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Roland_Announces_the_GRs_Space_and_GR_D_Distortion_V_Guitar_Twin_Stompboxes.aspx)

I bet by the time you add up the $$ cost of ALL Those - you could have bought TWO VG-99s via the Group Buy here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6768.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6768.0)

Hmmm...I opened up the link to Premier Guitar, but I don't see anything about pricing on there....in fact, I haven't seen anything about pricing anywhere.

You may be right though, it may just be cheaper to get a VG-99...

-oddguitar

Quote from: oddguitar on November 12, 2012, 03:42:02 PMI like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.

It won't be simple when you find a sound that you like and want to save it as a preset...

I don't really see the appeal of these for people on the fringe of this type of stuff. For a guitarist casually interested in synth type effects, there are other units available that don't require a special pickup. For those of us who immerse ourselves more in the modeling world, these don't offer anything new or complementary to our existing gear, especially considering the limited routing options on them.  I'm scratching my head on this one.

Quote from: Now_And_Then on November 12, 2012, 07:14:48 PM


It won't be simple when you find a sound that you like and want to save it as a preset...

Unless you have a really cool mixer to feed all those devices to (that can remember settings for the channels being used for a "patch"), I'd think saving a sound would be next to impossible. You would have at least 3 channels, if not 6, coming from the 3 devices, and have to set the mixer to get all three dialed in to get back to your sound. Not to mention resetting options on 3 boxes plus the mixer when you want your next "patch".

Unless somebody finds a sound in one of these boxes that Bill Ruppert says the VG-99 cannot duplicate (or at least come REALLY close to), I don't see these new boxes holding much interest for someone already aware of the Roland GK/VG line.

I'd like to see Roland and Fender come forth with a a few GK-equipped Squier models. Keep the prices low and make sure they are on the sales floor hooked up to the GR-55 and these new pedals. A new player probably won't drop another $900 on a Mexican Strat so they can buy a GR-55, but $300-400 for a gk-equipped Squier Strat or Tele is a lot easier sale. I suspect you would find a lot of players who don't want the GK-3 external would pick up the Squiers as a "second" guitar (no such thing as too many guitars) or just for the GK electronics, especially if they reworked the GK connector to minimize the mounting hole required. If they move the electronics from the connector to the main board and attach with a ribbon cable it would greatly reduce the size of the required hole and make moving the electronics to another guitar a much easier job. A lot of players have gutted Line 6 Variaxes and moved the electronics to nicer guitars. The Roland GK-Kit is not really difficult to install, but does not have the "finished" look that the RR-strat has got.

Quote from: oddguitar on November 12, 2012, 03:42:02 PM

My question is: are the VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, Synth, Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean sounds in the GR-D/GR-S just rehashed versions of what's already available in the VG-99/GR-55 or are they new sounds?

I edited the above:

I guarantee I could come up with all of those sounds on the VG-99 or variations (that would sound BETTER IMO).  I realized there's a way to do that rich chorusing they talk about:  Just use both A and B paths with chorus plus modulation and maybe a little delay using the A-B link route A to B.  That's one idea. 

The VG-99 could do a better job on the distortions than the stompbox can, all of the synthy stuff could also be done better on the 99 as well.  I suspect these little boxes are stripped down inexpensive ways of getting in the neighborhood of the sounds you can get on the 99.

I've seen 99's as inexpensive as $600 used. 

I agree on the idea of having a Squier version of a GK guitar - especially since the nicer Squiers are good values.

Quote from: datsunrobbie on November 14, 2012, 07:40:42 AM
I'd like to see Roland and Fender come forth with a a few GK-equipped Squier models.

Did you know that they are now selling a USB Squire through the Apple Store? $199. If they could do a GK guitar at that price point, that could definitely get some new users interested!

QuoteA lot of players have gutted Line 6 Variaxes and moved the electronics to nicer guitars.

I am not so sure that's happening much recently, as I think the only Line 6 Variax guitars for sale now are the more expensive, Taylor-designed Variax guitars. There might be a market for "bottom end" GK guitars, but Line 6 tried to sell bottom end Variax guitars (the Variax 300) and sales were disappointing.

Orren

QuoteI suspect these little boxes are stripped down inexpensive ways of getting some of the sounds you can get on the more expensive gear.

But if  GR-D and GR-S are released at NAMM with a $300 street price each - FAIL, dead on arrival.

QuoteIf they could do a GK guitar at that price point, that could definitely get some new users interested!

Maybe, but one significant problem remains:  the move to a hex pickup requires the adoption of TWO pieces of hardware simultaneously before there's any return on investment.  The approach of selling, say, the GR55 with a pickup bundled is viable, but expensive.  A better solution would be a cheap hex guitar with some kind of added value BUILT IN at a reasonable cost.  This might eventually result in an established base of GK-ready players who would buy new effects, etc. as they hit market.

An obvious opportunity would have been a GK out on the new G5 VG Strat.  You buy into the hex pickup because you want guitar models and/or alt. tuning, and then when Roland tried to pitch a new pedal a year later, they HAVE A CUSTOMER WAITING.  It amazes me that they didn't do this.  Never mind that half the necessary hardware is in place and they made the product itself much less attractive by skipping the jack; it was also an incredibly short-sighted marketing decision.  They keep painting their own GK products into corners.

They need a $349 Squire "GC-1 clone with 13 pin out AND USB class compliant audio I/O
The reason this does not already exist is either stupidity or greed

Boils down to Roland Japans lack of ability to connect the dots.
and a good measure of the "not invented here" syndrome.

QuoteI like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S

If you like simplicity of any kind, I'd advise against it.  The GR-55 alone will do most if not all of what that entire rig would do.  Do you expect to use PCM tones?  If not, maybe consider a VG99 instead of the GR55.  If you need PCM, I'd stick with the GR55 and find workarounds for the shortcomings.  That's just one opinion from a guy who likes simplicity though.  :)

QuoteI'd really like to see a GR Twin Pedal offering with just guitar models and alternate tunings.

Yeah, I'd buy that pedal, too.  Especially if it ran on batteries for a decent duration.

QuoteThey need a $349 Squire "GC-1 clone with 13 pin out AND USB class compliant audio I/O
The reason this does not already exist is either stupidity or greed

This does sound like a good product, but the problem remains - a player looking for a cheap solution who is thus far "outside the GK world" isn't likely to see the need for the hex pickup at extra cost.  It's not likely an entry-level buyer would walk into a store needing a cheap strat and a *very* specialized chorus pedal at the same time.  So unless the guitar has something on-board that adds value, or Roland can bundle it cheaply with an effect pedal that alot of people want, this product's sales would be undercut by something like the USB Strat linked above. 

Hex distortion and the like is not going to cut it if they're looking to sell guitars to new players; it's hard to even explain why hex distortion might occasionally be desireable.  Poly synth is a better angle for a bundle, but it needs to be affordable and sound absolutely amazing - enough to inspire a player who doesn't even know he wants a synth yet.

Quote from: Elantric on November 14, 2012, 09:33:42 AM
But if  GR-D and GR-S are released at NAMM with a $300 street price each - FAIL, dead on arrival.

Yep!  Unfortunately, that's about the price I anticipate Roland introducing them at.  Honestly, half that price (say, $149 USD) is about the only number that makes sense to me.

Quote from: mbenigni on November 14, 2012, 11:04:29 AM

If you like simplicity of any kind, I'd advise against it.  The GR-55 alone will do most if not all of what that entire rig would do.  Do you expect to use PCM tones?  If not, maybe consider a VG99 instead of the GR55.  If you need PCM, I'd stick with the GR55 and find workarounds for the shortcomings.  That's just one opinion from a guy who likes simplicity though.  :)

I'm interested in making my guitar sound different than an electric guitar (read COSM synth/PCM sounds).  The guitar models aren't so important to me outside of the acoustic, nylon, sitar, resonator and banjo sounds and the ability to alternate tune.  I already own a Kemper, which IMHO is the best product of its kind, so I'm all set on the amp modeling side of things.

The GR-55 would appear to be the perfect choice, except that it doesn't offer the complete array of COSM synth sounds or the freeze function of the VG-99.  Finally, according to reports on this forum, the guitar out of the GR-55 is so noisy that I can't output it into my Kemper.

On the other hand, the VG-99 doesn't offer any PCM sounds, has amp models that I don't need, is expensive (especially when you add on the FC-300) and has a 204 page manual that is terrifying to someone like myself who likes it to be easy and user friendly so I can focus on playing rather than figuring out how to use it.

So I had hoped that the GR-D & GR-S combined with the GR-55 (either via two US-20's or one GKP-4) would give me a simple way of accessing the freeze function along with some of the missing synth sounds of the VG-99.  However, from what you guys are telling me, the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are just duplicates of what's already in the VG-99....I can't win :-(

-oddguitar

Quote from: oddguitar on November 14, 2012, 02:22:19 PMSo I had hoped that the GR-D & GR-S combined with the GR-55 (either via two US-20's or one GKP-4) would give me a simple way of accessing the freeze function along with some of the missing synth sounds of the VG-99.  However, from what you guys are telling me, the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are just duplicates of what's already in the VG-99....I can't win :-(

How about getting the VG-99 and the GR-55 together ??
Or VG-99 and external midi synth module http://www.roland.com/products/en/SD-50/ (http://www.roland.com/products/en/SD-50/)

QuoteI'm interested in making my guitar sound different than an electric guitar (read COSM synth/PCM sounds). 

Wait 2 months and get a Fishman Tripleplay and feed a Laptop running NI Komplete.

Quote from: Elantric on November 14, 2012, 03:04:34 PM
Wait 2 months and get a Fishman Tripleplay and feed a Laptop running NI Komplete.

I'm definitely considering it, but since there's only room for one hex pickup on a guitar, it would mean giving up guitar modeling, alternate tuning and COSM synth sounds.

Plus, I'm not entirely convinced that we'll actually see the Triple Play...it was announced a year ago, and still isn't available.

-oddguitar

Once I get my Tripleplay - I will mod it to provide a 13 pin output

stay tuned

The winning move is to get a VG-99 and learn it thru and thru.  With that I honestly feel I don't need synths although I would entertain a bargain on a 55 for fun.

If Roland made a little VG pedal that produced the COSM guitar tones, I'd buy it.
IMO, this is something Roland does very well.

QuoteI can't win :-(

I think most of us have felt this way over the years.  It always amazes me how any given product will get me 90% of where I'm heading, and then I hit a wall.  The ways in which each product's limitations complement the limitations in other products so that I can never quite get the job done... it's so perfect I sometimes imagine a consortium of genius engineers designing ways to foil me (presumably to keep me running back to the guitar shop with money in hand.)

But I think I have a stricter sense of "simplicity" than you do.  I get frustrated if I start seeing more than 2 or 3 cables.  If you would have been happy with the GR55 and the GR-D and the GR-S and a US-20 and a mixer (phew) then I'm certain you can win with a little creativity.  First consider your footcontroller needs.  If they're fairly minimal, then I'd make the GR55 the center of your rig, and complement with a couple of handpicked effects pedals (e.g. EHX freeze, etc.) to get whatever you're missing that you thought the GRS/GRD might present.  If you need extensive control at your feet, then you're bound to pick up an FC300 or FCB or whatever anyway.  So do that, score a used VG99, and find a small (i.e. 1/3 rack space) sound module that meets your needs (e.g. SoundCanvas or the like.)  Or, as mentioned above, consider complementing either of these rigs with a decent laptop and some VSTs. 

I'm confident there are a lot of winning combinations that will offer more functionality, more variety, and less hassle than the GR55+GRS+GRD.

P.S. Just noticed you're already using a KPA.  Excellent amp modeling and excellent effects (fewer than in the GR55, but much better-sounding IMO).  This is kind of left-field, but have you considered a JTV Variax for guitar modeling/alt. tuning?  Or the Antares guitars that are coming to market soon?  That would cover your bases excepting straight MIDI stuff, where a laptop or older Roland guitar synth might suffice.

Quote from: DeRigueur on November 15, 2012, 06:41:24 AM
If Roland made a little VG pedal that produced the COSM guitar tones, I'd buy it.
IMO, this is something Roland does very well.

Yeah, I think a lot of us agree.  A "GR-G" double wide battery-powered pedal that did COSM guitar modeling and alternate tunings - THAT would sell, and it would also encourage sales of GK-equipped guitars.  I'd buy it the second it was announced.

(Another model with MIDI Out, in addition to COSM guitars and detuning, would be very attractive indeed.)

Quote from: mbenigni on November 14, 2012, 11:11:27 AM
This does sound like a good product, but the problem remains - a player looking for a cheap solution who is thus far "outside the GK world" isn't likely to see the need for the hex pickup at extra cost.  It's not likely an entry-level buyer would walk into a store needing a cheap strat and a *very* specialized chorus pedal at the same time.  So unless the guitar has something on-board that adds value, or Roland can bundle it cheaply with an effect pedal that alot of people want, this product's sales would be undercut by something like the USB Strat linked above. 

Hex distortion and the like is not going to cut it if they're looking to sell guitars to new players; it's hard to even explain why hex distortion might occasionally be desireable.  Poly synth is a better angle for a bundle, but it needs to be affordable and sound absolutely amazing - enough to inspire a player who doesn't even know he wants a synth yet.

This is where Line 6 was very smart. You can pick up a POD and use it with a standard guitar and get a lot of functionality out of it. Then come back and pick up a Variax and open up a lot more functionality from the same effects unit. The POD HD 500 is selling for $500. If Roland could hit that price point with a successor to the GR-55 with a standard guitar input it should cut into Line 6's sales because potential customers would not be required to buy a GK equipped guitar to use it. Of course they would need to emphasize that some effects, like alternate tunings, require the use of the GK pickup. Having an inexpensive selection of GK-equipped guitars would also be very important. Being able to pick up a new guitar and plug it in is simply more satisfying than buying a pickup and installing it (for most guitarists).

Good points.  You're kind of coming at it from the opposite angle:  selling effects that are already attractive to "standard" guitar owners, but that encourage purchase of GK guitars down the line.

Price point would be tough, though.  Those HD PODs sound great for the money.  Competing with that and adding GK capabilities would be costly for sure.

Quote from: mbenigni on November 15, 2012, 06:54:27 AMBut I think I have a stricter sense of "simplicity" than you do.  I get frustrated if I start seeing more than 2 or 3 cables.  If you would have been happy with the GR55 and the GR-D and the GR-S and a US-20 and a mixer (phew) then I'm certain you can win with a little creativity.  First consider your footcontroller needs.  If they're fairly minimal, then I'd make the GR55 the center of your rig, and complement with a couple of handpicked effects pedals (e.g. EHX freeze, etc.) to get whatever you're missing that you thought the GRS/GRD might present.  If you need extensive control at your feet, then you're bound to pick up an FC300 or FCB or whatever anyway.  So do that, score a used VG99, and find a small (i.e. 1/3 rack space) sound module that meets your needs (e.g. SoundCanvas or the like.)  Or, as mentioned above, consider complementing either of these rigs with a decent laptop and some VSTs. 

I'm confident there are a lot of winning combinations that will offer more functionality, more variety, and less hassle than the GR55+GRS+GRD.

P.S. Just noticed you're already using a KPA.  Excellent amp modeling and excellent effects (fewer than in the GR55, but much better-sounding IMO).  This is kind of left-field, but have you considered a JTV Variax for guitar modeling/alt. tuning?  Or the Antares guitars that are coming to market soon?  That would cover your bases excepting straight MIDI stuff, where a laptop or older Roland guitar synth might suffice.

You have a point about the mixer....I guess I got confused since the Roland website states "When used with an optional US-20 Unit Selector, the GR-S also gives current GR and VG users new sounds for their existing rig."....,so I assumed that there was a was to patch the output of the GR-D & GR-S into the GR-55 or the VG-99 and end up with only one output signal, whereby I wouldn't need a mixer.

As to Gumtown's suggestion of running both the VG-99 & the GR-55....isn't that going to require a mixer as well, since I'd be running two separate outputs?

I have considered the Line6 JTV Variax, however, a) I already own much higher quality guitars, b) I like to palm mute, c) I won't get any of the COSM synth sounds, d) I've heard about so many reliability problems with the JTV.

I'm still not clear if the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S (outside of the freeze function and polydistortion) are in the GR-55?

-oddguitar

Quote from: mbenigni on November 15, 2012, 10:27:17 AM
Good points.  You're kind of coming at it from the opposite angle:  selling effects that are already attractive to "standard" guitar owners, but that encourage purchase of GK guitars down the line.

Price point would be tough, though.  Those HD PODs sound great for the money.  Competing with that and adding GK capabilities would be costly for sure.

Yeah, Roland would need a range of GK compatible products to really compete with the POD line.
GR-x01 - guitar/effect/amp models - $400
GR-x02 - add one PCM synth
GR-x03 - add second PCM synth (GR-55 with 1/4" in)
GR-x04 - add another GR-x01 (VG-99 successor with 2 PCM synths)

Sounds like a good strategy.  But to really get GK momentum happening, they'd need to ensure there were some features in the GR-x02 that made it more attractive than the the x01, even for players without hex pickups.  Otherwise it would be the same situation, where players would gravitate the most cost effective product for their immediate needs - the 01 - and never open up the door for a future GK pickup/guitar purchase.

QuoteYou have a point about the mixer....I guess I got confused since the Roland website states "When used with an optional US-20 Unit Selector, the GR-S also gives current GR and VG users new sounds for their existing rig."....,so I assumed that there was a was to patch the output of the GR-D & GR-S into the GR-55 or the VG-99 and end up with only one output signal, whereby I wouldn't need a mixer.

Hmm. Yeah, that is pretty vague.  I'm not really familiar with the US20, actually, but I think it's just switching/splitting at the input end, e.g. the signal on the GK cable.

QuoteAs to Gumtown's suggestion of running both the VG-99 & the GR-55....isn't that going to require a mixer as well, since I'd be running two separate outputs?

Not certain, but I think the VG99 has some kind of aux in or effects return that you could use to mix the GR55 tones (or GR-D/S tones for that matter) without an additional mixer.

QuoteI have considered the Line6 JTV Variax, however, a) I already own much higher quality guitars, b) I like to palm mute, c) I won't get any of the COSM synth sounds, d) I've heard about so many reliability problems with the JTV.

I hear ya on all counts.  I've largely moved away from Variax in favor of GK for these same reasons.

QuoteI'm still not clear if the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S (outside of the freeze function and polydistortion) are in the GR-55?

It's hard to tell without actually owning a GR-D/S and having the time to dig in.  The GR-55 doesn't have hex effects per se (excepting COSM modeling, which is essentially a specialized set of hex FX), so it's a fair bet that there are some GRD/S sounds that can not be precisely achieved.  But based on what I heard in the videos, and what I see in the way of controls on those pedals, I don't think they're capable of anything significantly different from what the GR55 can do.  And more importantly I'm not convinced that the hex effects are necessarily "better".  Maybe occassionally they are, but IMO the hex distortion is a bit clinical for instance. 

This is the thing, it becomes kind of a fool's errand trying to get "all of the sounds".  You could have the GR55 and the GR-D/S, and even the VG99 for that matter, and then realize that you can't quite cop the sound of an EHX Electric Mistress, or any of a thousand other products.  Chasing all the Roland timbres, especially when they overlap so much, is kind of an arbitrary pursuit.  Start with the one product that covers the most ground, be it GR55*, VG99, or something else entirely, then complement that rig with individual effects as you find them and fall in love with them.  If you're willing to run the cables and juggle the batteries and all, I personally think you'll do better mixing in some non-Roland sounds.

*Taking this approach with the GR55 at the center of your rig, the absence of an FX loop is going to trip you up sooner than the absence of any given sound, but since you're already running a hybrid rig with the KPA somewhere in there, you should have plenty of routing options.

Quote from: mbenigni on November 15, 2012, 10:27:17 AM
Good points.  You're kind of coming at it from the opposite angle:  selling effects that are already attractive to "standard" guitar owners, but that encourage purchase of GK guitars down the line.

Price point would be tough, though.  Those HD PODs sound great for the money.  Competing with that and adding GK capabilities would be costly for sure.

oops - accidently posted before I finished rambling

Yeah, Roland would need a range of GK compatible products to really compete with the POD line.
GR-x01 - guitar/effect/amp models (GT-100 with GK-in) - price against POD HD500
GR-x02 - add 2 PCM synths (GR-55 with 1/4" in) - price against POD HD Pro
GR-x03 - add another GR-x01 (VG-99 with 2 PCM synths) - wish I could afford one  :)

Seems to me that trying to get players to try GK gear is the biggest trick. Roland needs to get GK-compatible gear into the hands of players. If they incorporate GK technology into a box that is appealing to players unfamiliar with that tech then they can get in "through the back door". After owning the box for a while, some of the users will want to find out more about the GK port and what the can do with it (sort of like that big "V-Link" button on my GR-55 and VG-99). This will lead to purchasing a GK-equipped guitar or a GK pickup. The pickups are world-renowned as ugly, and the guitars available are too expensive for experimenting, so these new users will search around and find used junk guitars with GK-2s installed for less than the price of a GK-3, and suffer through the disappointments that come with trying to use a GK-equipped guitar that cannot be intonated and won't stay in tune. OR Roland could expand their relationship with Fender to the Squier line to put forth GK-ready strats and teles, and maybe an Epiphone LP-GK for the Gibson crowd.

I never finish rambling.  Most of my posts get edited 3 or 4 times.   ::)

You will need a mixer for all scenarios above

For a small compact noise free mixer - try an ART SplitMix 4
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F31HZwGYUENL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&hash=db96d6984b4de67a323a2c2c593cf147bba7feab)
http://www.amazon.com/ART-SPLITMix4-Passive-SplitterMixer-Attenuation/dp/B002VX0DCE (http://www.amazon.com/ART-SPLITMix4-Passive-SplitterMixer-Attenuation/dp/B002VX0DCE) 

Dear Roland,
Please take the new algorithms from these two pedals and bundle them into a software update for the VG-99 and whilst you're at it please include the poly ring mod, extra poly dynamics controls, poly eq, string modelling and the ability to reposition the normal guitar signal in the signal chain from the VB-99.
Thanks, Frank.

These are definitely among the stupidest things Roland has ever released.  I've been using Roland VG/GR stuff forever and I can't think of single reason to buy either of these pedals.  These will be bigger flops than the previous twin pedals.

Most people that have any VG rig of any kind are not likely to pick one of these up since they add little (if anything) to what they've already got and they can't be used concurrently without a US20/GKP4 or similar device.  And not a single person will get a GK pickup just to have one of these pedals.

This is definitely a WTF product.

Quote from:  Elantric
With the GR-S - IMHO, Roland will try to sell it as a "Variax killer".
Seems to be the current "new product" path for Roland, simply re-wrapping portions of old existing tech into a dumbed / stripped down  / low cost version.

A Variax killer?  Not a chance.  I would be stunned to hear of even one person that was considering buying a Variax but ended up buying a GK guitar or pickup and a GR-S. 

The Variax, while not perfect, sounds like a decent quality musical instrument.  The GR-S sounds like a toy.

Quote from: Elantric on November 15, 2012, 01:31:36 PM
You will need a mixer for all scenarios above

Hmmmm......I then guess it's either the VG-99 or the GR-55, since I don't feel like dealing with mixing two GK's signals as well as my KPA signal....that's just too much work!

I guess I'm left wondering who this product is geared towards?....maybe the guitarist who just wants a couple cool GK sounds in addition to his/her traditional rig?

-oddguitar

Is there any pickup modelling on these pedals? It seems as though the input is derived entirely from the GK pickup itself.

Quote from: Frank on November 18, 2012, 08:18:00 AM
Is there any pickup modelling on these pedals? It seems as though the input is derived entirely from the GK pickup itself.

No modeling on these...just polyphonic effects.

Quote from: Frank on November 15, 2012, 03:26:42 PM
Dear Roland,
Please take the new algorithms from these two pedals and bundle them into a software update for the VG-99 and whilst you're at it please include the poly ring mod, extra poly dynamics controls, poly eq, string modelling and the ability to reposition the normal guitar signal in the signal chain from the VB-99.
Thanks, Frank.

Pretty please.

Quote from: kmaus10 on November 18, 2012, 11:20:45 AM
No modeling on these...just polyphonic effects.

They are undoubtedly doing SOME processing to the incoming hexaphonic signal before processing it.  I bet dollars to doughnuts that they are EQing it to get a GK-3 to sound vaguely decent.

Well, here's my usual tune and even though no one else thinks it's worth anything, I am going to sing it again.

As far as I am concerned, there are several inexpensive but very capable Roland COSM boxes available: I have in mind the VG-8 S-1 or EX, and the VG-88 v1 or v2. (I believe that Roland will still update a v1 for free.)

These are cheap enough to be impulse purchases! I bought a backup VG-88 for about $250 on eBay a few years ago, and a VG-8EX with the 501(?) memory card for about $160 even before that. I understand that the fx on these might not be as good as on the VG-99, but have the COSM models really changed very much? I don't think so.

Oddguitar (I think) said he would buy a box with just the COSM guitars; well here are two for cheap! And again I want to emphasize that the COSM guitar capabilities of the both the VG-8 S-1/EX and the VG-88 v1/v2 are far beyond what the VG-99 offers.

I think that this is a very very viable option. And it needs to be recommended more often to people who are (understandably) reluctant to invest in a VG-99.

Good point Now and Then, regarding used VGs over these odd new pedals. I would add the VGA-3/5/7 series to low cost the VG options. They did not sell well and were dropped rather quickly by Roland, so they can be found at pretty good prices used, mainly do to their misunderstood feature set, and controls. It's just a very different paradigm from 'normal' amps.

QuoteI understand that the fx on these might not be as good as on the VG-99, but have the COSM models really changed very much? I don't think so.

Can anyone confirm/deny that the VG8/88 COSM models are or equal (or similar) quality to those in the VG99 or GR55?

Download the owners manuals.
The VG-8 had broader parameters on the VARI Guitar and could change the size of the Acoustic
But the 18 bit DAC and higher random background noise tends to give the newer 24 bit products (VG-99, GR-55) improved sonic details to my ears.

But typical Roland, 1step forward, two steps bacwards.


The big hurdle to owning the VG-8 is no editor. You must build every patch in the box, and learn to navigate the countless folders.

But at today's eBay used prices ($200) it's foolish not to own one of the older models.
Folks forget that the VG-8 was $2500 in 1995

The VG-88 is very much a grab and go and play unit, and can process normal guitars and has a good Windows Editor.

But it's still missing The features of the VG-8EX. Too numerous to mention here

Read all the manuals for VG-8, VG-8 S1, VG-8EX,  VG-88 , VG-99 to compare the units.

Quote from: mbenigni on November 20, 2012, 06:51:24 AM


Can anyone confirm/deny that the VG8/88 COSM models are or equal (or similar) quality to those in the VG99 or GR55?

24 Bit, lower background noise and less editability are features of the newer units, plus the absence of guitar types like the HSS (amongst others) in terms of the guitar modelling, although the routing and processing options more than make up for this in the VG-99.

Quote from: Elantric on November 20, 2012, 08:04:35 AM
The VG-8 had broader parameters on the VARI Guitar and could change the size of the Acoustic

If you meant 'body' size, you still can do this on the VARI acoustic model on the VG-99.

QuoteBut the 18 bit DAC and higher random background noise tends to give the newer 24 bit products (VG-99, GR-55) improved sonic details to my ears.

This is more the sort of feedback I was looking for, and not something readily obtained from the manuals.  Thanks!

Quote from: Frank on November 15, 2012, 03:26:42 PM
Dear Roland,
Please take the new algorithms from these two pedals and bundle them into a software update for the VG-99.
Thanks, Frank.

Sooooo....there are new algorithms in the two pedals that aren't in the VG-99/GR-55?.....I thought you guys said that there weren't?....now I'm confused.

-oddguitar

Quote from: Elantric on November 20, 2012, 08:04:35 AM
The big hurdle to owning the VG-8 is no editor. You must build every patch in the box, and learn to navigate the countless folders.

That is a problem but consider that, if someone wants it solely for the COSM guitars (and maybe the auto-tune feature), then there is so much that does not have to be learned; in fact, only a very small part of the device needs to be learned. It is also worth noting that even though there is no computer-based editor, there is a librarian. (And after all, the VG-88 does have an editor.)

Quote from: Elantric on November 20, 2012, 08:04:35 AM
But the 18 bit DAC and higher random background noise tends to give the newer 24 bit products (VG-99, GR-55) improved sonic details to my ears.

My personal opinion about the difference between 18 and 24 bits: the difference only matters on the spec sheet; it has no actual real-world significance. Well not to my ears, anyways.

Also, I have not noticed any random background noise on the VG-8EX, so I can't say.

Quote from: Elantric on November 20, 2012, 08:04:35 AM
But at today's eBay used prices ($200) it's foolish not to own one of the older models. Folks forget that the VG-8 was $2500 in 1995.

Is there enough random noise and is there sufficiently less sonic detail to make the purchase of a VG-8EX for, let's say, possibly as little as $150 (but maybe even less) anything other than a smart purchase? Especially if that VG is going to be used only for sending the COSM guitars into a Kemper, or an AXE-FX II, to mention a similar use? Personally I think that it's a brilliant combination.

I'm not sure if new "algorithms" are part of these boxes, all I know is I believe the VG-99 can do them similarly enough or better than these new boxes in a more integrated more programmable format.

Some of you might not have been around when Bill Ruppert's VG-99 demos were around but believe you me, if you had the choice to listen to Bill's VG-99 demos or the new Roland box demos you'd pick the Ruppert demos EVERY time. 

No question the 99 is better in my mind.

Quote from: Now_And_Then on November 20, 2012, 03:47:44 PM

My personal opinion about the difference between 18 and 24 bits: the difference only matters on the spec sheet; it has no actual real-world significance. Well not to my ears, anyways.

Also, I have not noticed any random background noise on the VG-8EX, so I can't say.

24 bit=144db of dynamic range; that definitely matters to me.

As much as I love my VG-8 (and I really do), the noise floor is considerably higher than the VG-99 even with the VG-8's flakey semi pro balanced out.

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 20, 2012, 07:48:20 PM
I'm not sure if new "algorithms" are part of these boxes, all I know is I believe the VG-99 can do them similarly enough or better than these new boxes in a more integrated more programmable format.

Some of you might not have been around when Bill Ruppert's VG-99 demos were around but believe you me, if you had the choice to listen to Bill's VG-99 demos or the new Roland box demos you'd pick the Ruppert demos EVERY time. 

No question the 99 is better in my mind.

I think regardless of your preferred parlance, Roland have followed their standard M.O. and released new products with different or new models/algorithms with little interest in updating previous releases. This has happened several times in the past with other products (not just V-Guitar) and seems unlikely to change, although I hope I'm wrong.

Beating a Dead Horse:

Roland is offering to sell two new hardware boxes, with associated cost to manufacture, distribute, etc.

I would gladly pay $150 for a VG-99 software update that fixes the Nylon guitar problem and adds in a few new features, like the super filter from the GR-55 MFX section.

We would buy it directly from Roland, online, and surely they would make just as much money off this update as selling these new pedals. This could also refresh the VG-99 as well.

What Wayne said.  I'd pay some $ towards an update if Roland saw fit to produce one.

If the vg99's sales were as poor as stated, it makes little sense investing resources into an update.  I would also pay for an update but I imagine the active demand is very low.

I would think the market for said updates is in the few thousands and that many would attempt to bypass purchasing it. At 2,000 upgrades at $150, that's $300k, or roughly 2 or 3 years engineers wages. The actual sales would probably be a lot less. I don't see any substantial return for Roland to do this, sadly. It would have to be a labor of love. My guess is that Roland thinks it can sell 100k mini pedal units worldwide each at maybe 30% profit. Which is better for Roland. I wish them luck but I doubt the success of these units. The VG upgrade would be nice though. If Roland wanted to profit from upgrades, they would make them a service center option only, so they could control distribution, or with web authentication, key fob or other security.

Back in the mid 1990s Roland released a major OS update to their VS-880 on an Iomega  ZIP disk they sold for $120.

But today, they figure 3 days after any update goes up on the Roland US site - bootleg free copies will pop up on the torrent sites

It makes it very tough for Roland to monetize major OS updates to existing products where they require the end user to pay a fee for the update.

Remember this is the IT hampered company that cant figure out the infrastructure to provide a user forum, and still hasn't done the math to understand that todays customer expects ongoing development and new firmware to address bugs for embedded CPU based products.

Even my under $100 home DVD player gets more firmware updates compared to any Roland gear.

And they do live in denial - if you ever find yourself talking to a true Roland employee, ask them the status regarding a fix for the 5 year old VG-99 "Nylon COSM Guitar Bug which renders dead notes or no sound during softly played passages" (aka "Nylon hysteresis" bug)

They will tell you this bug with the VG-99 does NOT exist!
 

If Roland were to venture into paid updates,
perhaps taking your device to an 'authorised Roland dealer' to do the update would also have benefits for customer reassurance that they won't brick their own devices.
And make it difficult for pirated firmare to be distributed illegally.

Quote from: Elantric on November 21, 2012, 03:15:12 PMRemember this is the IT hampered company that cant figure out the infrastructure to provide a user forum...

Yeah, yeah, yeah - blame the IT guy!   ::)

An age old IT joke, that is vaguely pertinent:

A man flies his hot air balloon and gets lost in a fog bank for a couple of hours.  Looking for clues, he looks down and sees a golfer working on a putt.   "Hello there," he calls out, "Could you tell me where we are, I'm lost!"   

"Over the 18th hole," answers the golfer.   

"You must be in IT!", responds the man in the balloon angrily.   

"How'd you know that?" asks the golfer.

"Because your answer was 100% accurate yet completely useless!"    ;D

The golfer answers, "Well, you must be in Marketing!"

"How'd you know THAT?" asks the balloonist.

"Because you don't know where you are, or where you're going, you got yourself in a bind and somehow it's the IT guy's fault!"    ;)

I still own a V-Studio VS-840.  The update (which my sister-in-law bought and paid for on ZIP media for Christmas one year) I believe cost $50 and it turned my VS-840 into a VS-840EX.  I still use it. 

It's too bad they don't persist in doing the updates but if their main reason for not doing things is "fear of piracy" it becomes kind of ridiculous.   "We stopped buying Roland products because they were afraid to update them for fear the firmware would be pirated so they lagged behind all the other companies producing similar products".

The "hardware dongle" is the price of entry in this case, really. 

Quote from: Elantric on November 21, 2012, 03:15:12 PM
Back in the mid 1990s Roland released a major OS update to their VS-880 on an Iomega  ZIP disk they sold for $120.

But today, they figure 3 days after any update goes up on the Roland US site - bootleg free copies will pop up on the torrent sites

It makes it very tough for Roland to monetize major OS updates to existing products where they require the end user to pay a fee for the update.

Remember this is the IT hampered company that cant figure out the infrastructure to provide a user forum, and still hasn't done the math to understand that todays customer expects ongoing development and new firmware to address bugs for embedded CPU based products.

Even my under $100 home DVD player gets more firmware updates compared to any Roland gear.

And they do live in denial - if you ever find yourself talking to a true Roland employee, ask them the status regarding a fix for the 5 year old VG-99 "Nylon COSM Guitar Bug which renders dead notes or no sound during softly played passages" (aka "Nylon hysteresis" bug)

They will tell you this bug with the VG-99 does NOT exist!

I used to work for a company with a similar mentality.  They knew bugs existed but would impact comparatively few users but would not prevent use of the majority of the features in the product. 

Those that submitted one of these "ghost bugs" to support had to prove to the company's satisfaction that the problem existed.  In the pre-youtube days this was difficult.

The thing is, in the case of Roland needing proof we would need someone with great cameras, good lighting and the ability to demonstrate the bug clearly on video to prove the bug exists to show Roland it really does exist. 

I wonder if anyone can do this?  I can try (I did before but at first I didn't really experience the bug until some people here explained it more clearly then I could repeat it often but illustrating it on video was another thing entirely - my camera at the time was limited to 720p and not very clearly).

Quote from: tekrytor on November 21, 2012, 02:52:53 PM
I would think the market for said updates is in the few thousands and that many would attempt to bypass purchasing it. At 2,000 upgrades at $150, that's $300k, or roughly 2 or 3 years engineers wages. The actual sales would probably be a lot less. I don't see any substantial return for Roland to do this, sadly. It would have to be a labor of love. My guess is that Roland thinks it can sell 100k mini pedal units worldwide each at maybe 30% profit. Which is better for Roland. I wish them luck but I doubt the success of these units. The VG upgrade would be nice though. If Roland wanted to profit from upgrades, they would make them a service center option only, so they could control distribution, or with web authentication, key fob or other security.

I guess there are a lot of unknowns here: Would it take 6 weeks, 6 months, or a year to fix the Nylon guitar problem? They had it right in the VG-88/88. What happened?

Other companies with substantially less in gross sales and units sold than Roland still offer upgrades. I sure wish there was some genuine competition in the gtr synth market, that might get things moving.

Can anyone explain what the Mix/Guitar Input on both the GR-D and GR-S are for?

Is there a way to patch the GR-D/GR-S into the effects loop of the VG-99?

The GR-55 doesn't seem to have an effects loop, so it's a no-go with that, but the VG-99 apparently does....although I can't tell from the pictures I've seen which connection on the VG-99 is the effects loop (nothing seems to be labeled as such).

-oddguitar

Quote from: oddguitar on November 23, 2012, 10:54:47 AM
Can anyone explain what the Mix/Guitar Input on both the GR-D and GR-S are for?

Is there a way to patch the GR-D/GR-S into the effects loop of the VG-99?

The GR-55 doesn't seem to have an effects loop, so it's a no-go with that, but the VG-99 apparently does....although I can't tell from the pictures I've seen which connection on the VG-99 is the effects loop (nothing seems to be labeled as such).

-oddguitar

Re. GR-55, you could feed the GR-D/S output into the GK's Normal pickup input.

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 21, 2012, 07:11:12 PM
I still own a V-Studio VS-840.  The update (which my sister-in-law bought and paid for on ZIP media for Christmas one year) I believe cost $50 and it turned my VS-840 into a VS-840EX.  I still use it. 

So as a manager at Roland I hear "If you provide updates to your old products, they will be useful to your customers for a longer duration, so they will not buy your new products".

It only becomes a problem for a company when they thing "nobody is going to buy our next product because they don't believe we will support it for long enough to make the purchase worth while."

Sigh.

Arguably I've used it past all practical expectations - I use it as a mixer front end for my computer not as it was originally intended.  I also used it for some of the effects built-in. 

I could see Roland using that argument but when you're dealing with a product that cost >$1000 I try to use it for as long as possible.  The VG-99 will be no different.  What are you going to do Roland?  Not produce updates for an existing expensive product or are you going to produce a new scaled down version of what I already have?  Oh you already did the latter.  Sorry, sticking with the 99 for another eight or ten years if I live that long.

Just saw the two pedals listed on the sweetwater website....$299 each....

-oddguitar

Quote from: oddguitar on November 30, 2012, 11:36:03 PM
Just saw the two pedals listed on the sweetwater website....$299 each....

-oddguitar

A price-point which will ensure their failure!

You could buy a used VG-99 that would do more than those things would for around the same price - at least I saw one VG-99 used for $599 at a local store (it wasn't there long).  If you're lucky you can find them.

The only advantage with these little floor boxen is that they're smaller and apparently have inputs that would let you run your existing gear thru it.  But $600 for both?  I'd buy a used GR-55 if all I had was $600 or a used VG-99 which we may see more of in the future.

After talking to Roland customer support about the GR-D & GR-S, I now have a better understanding as to why they were developed.  If I've understood what they told me correctly, these pedals are meant for people who want to incorporate polydistortion, faux synth sounds, pad sounds, and the freeze function into their traditional guitar/amp rig without having to drag a VG-99/FC-300 combo with them.  They are meant to to expand the appeal of the V-Guitar concept beyond people who are already VG/GR savy and very comfortable with technology (i.e. most of the people on this forum) to more traditional "meat & potatoes" guitar players and those who want to have a quick & dirty VG solution that drops right onto their pedalboard for live playing.

Anywho, I think there is more to these pedals than I originally gave them credit for, and I think I will purchase both of them.

-oddguitar 

QuoteThey are meant to to expand the appeal of the V-Guitar concept beyond people who are already VG/GR savy and very comfortable with technology (i.e. most of the people on this forum) to more traditional "meat & potatoes" guitar players and those who want to have a quick & dirty VG solution that drops right onto their pedalboard for live playing.

Its rather like Roland has a case of "the emperor's new clothes" IMHO.

They remain in denial that among " traditional "meat & potatoes" guitar players  - THE major roadblock to the mass adoption of Roland 13 pin products is the damn fugly GK-3 borg wart that costs $230 and is way more fiddly to install than most typical guitarists can deal with. As a result of the poor design which has not changed much  since the 1988 era GK-2 pickup, they have shot themselves in the foot yet again with these new round of "budget" 13 pin boxes, because the global marketing arm at the Roland is too shy to tell the headquarters in Japan they should make these systems easier to install, and more compact - so  Les Pauls can still fit in their hard shell guitar case after GK-3 installation (maybe make the future GK-3 more flat and low profile like the fishman tripleplay?) 

With the inflation and poor economy, - I know of ZERO "traditional "meat & potatoes" guitarists who would be interested in these latest Roland GR-D & GR-S products.

Roland suggests a typical guitarist will:

1 ) Buy a Roland GK-3: $219
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK3?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CJqQssnirLQCFSFyQgod-2oATA (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK3?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CJqQssnirLQCFSFyQgod-2oATA)

2 ) Install GK-3 (local shops near me charge $75 labor)

3) Buy a Roland GR-D - just for hex distortion. (estimated to be  $299)

$593 total




and only $50 shy of what I recently paid for an Avid Eleven Rack + Protools 10 bundle
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/avid-eleven-rack-guitar-multi-effects-processor-and-pro-tools?src=3WFRWXX (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/avid-eleven-rack-guitar-multi-effects-processor-and-pro-tools?src=3WFRWXX)


BTW - $600 thats about what our GR-55 with GK-3 pickup Group Buy price was back in Feb. 2011  - before all the Roland price increases last year.

Quote from: Elantric on December 21, 2012, 04:45:59 PM
Roland suggests a typical guitarist will:

1 ) Buy a Roland GK-3: $219
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK3?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CJqQssnirLQCFSFyQgod-2oATA (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK3?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CJqQssnirLQCFSFyQgod-2oATA)

2 ) Install GK-3 (local shops near me charge $75 labor)

3) Buy a Roland GR-D - just for hex distortion. (estimated to be  $299)

$593 total

That's not including the fragile 13 pin cable either (requires 2 incase someone steps on a 13 pin plug you left on the floor while setting up).

I just do not know why stupid Roland did not do connectors in / out or thru for 13-pins cables ...
Maybe Roland not want the musicians have (or use) more than one pedal at the same time ... LOL ...

I don't understand why Roland spends money or efforts doing market research. They could just use this forum! We are the actual users! And we are a point of reference for future users.

???

If they simply had included a Vio guitar, or a Gretch, or a good Nylon, a Mellotron, some crazy lead synth, or a pad with freeze-function, perhaps someone may have expressed interest in these two little toys.

Sound Demos of the new GR-D  / GR-S

http://www.roland.co.jp/FrontScene/1302_GR/sound.html (http://www.roland.co.jp/FrontScene/1302_GR/sound.html)

Owners manuals
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927083/GR-D_e02_W.pdf (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927083/GR-D_e02_W.pdf)

Quote* The GR-D does not support basses (GK-3B).

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927084/GR-S_e02_W.pdf (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927084/GR-S_e02_W.pdf)

Quote* The GR-S does not support basses (GK-3B).

QuoteThis product contains eCROS integrated software platform of eSOL Co.,Ltd. eCROS is a trademark of eSOL Co., Ltd. in Japan.

http://www.esol.com/company/ (http://www.esol.com/company/)

http://www.esol.com (http://www.esol.com)

http://www.esol.co.jp (http://www.esol.co.jp)

The demo's sound cool.  I've ordered up both pedals, a GR-55 & a US-20....can't wait to try them out!

-oddguitar

QuoteMy VG99 is dead to me(due only to Roland's lack of support),

QuoteThe demo's sound cool.  I've ordered up both pedals,

Must have money to burn - not trying to start a fight, but i fail to see  / hear anything in the GR-S or GR-D that cant already be achieved with superior results with your VG-99 and careful programming.

We know the VG-99 will never get any more updates, but that does not diminish its current capabilities - it remains the flagship 13 pin processor for a reason.

Quote from: Elantric on February 13, 2013, 08:52:19 PM
Sound Demos of the new GR-D  / GR-D

This product contains eCROS integrated software platform of eSOL Co.,Ltd. eCROS is a trademark of eSOL Co., Ltd. in Japan.

I wonder if this is the new technology that the Roland demo guy was telling me about when I called support?  His take was that the new pedals sound better through an amp than previous incarnations of V-Guitar gear.  I'll guess I'll find out for myself when they arrive.

I'm hoping they will release a third GR modeling twin pedal with the basic functionality of the G-5/G-5A, albeit with many more tuning options.

There's no question the VG-99 remains the flagship, but for me there were too many redundancies with the GR-55 to justify the investment (I may pick one up used down the road however). These two pedals give me some polyphonic effects, the freeze function as well as some dual COSM sounds that aren't available on the GR-55.  They're also easy to incorporate into an existing traditional pedalboard + amp rig.

-oddguitar

QuoteI'll guess I'll find out for myself when they arrive.

I look forward to hearing your real world thoughts / review of these new pedals.

If Roland would had released an upgrade for the VG99 and promote it at  NAMM 2013, they would probably had boosted-up the sales of the VG-99, and had much more profit than selling this couple of expensive and limited pedals.

Quote from: Piing on February 14, 2013, 05:03:44 PM
If Roland would had released an upgrade for the VG99 and promote it at  NAMM 2013, they would probably had boosted-up the sales of the VG-99, and had much more profit than selling this couple of expensive and limited pedals.

I think, based in the report, a new version of the VG99 is seen as a money-loser.

Quote from: kmaus10 on February 14, 2013, 07:11:33 PM
I think, based in the report, a new version of the VG99 is seen as a money-loser.

I think Piing has a frimware update in mind. In which case the immediate costs for Roland in releasing such an update might well offset the damage done to Roland's reputation in the minds of some users (such as myself) by their refusal to support their products in any meaningful way compared to other manufacturers. But Roland seems not to value that reputation very highly at all.

Here is where some of Roland's real technology investment goes:

TD-30KV V-Drums Sound Demo, Expressiveness Performed by Dirk Brand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QrlQviLHOU#ws)

If any have followed these kits over the years, you can see that the leap in technology is pretty impressive!

Quote from: Now_And_Then on February 14, 2013, 11:55:42 PM
I think Piing has a frimware update in mind. In which case the immediate costs for Roland in releasing such an update might well offset the damage done to Roland's reputation in the minds of some users (such as myself) by their refusal to support their products in any meaningful way compared to other manufacturers. But Roland seems not to value that reputation very highly at all.

Exactly: I mean a firmware update. That, together with a presentation made by a good player and good presets (like the ones you can find at this forum) would make a revival of the VG99 sales.

That video about the V-Drums is great!!!  "I notice inmediately that this snare is like a real instrument because of the real natural feeling" Why don't they say something similar about the VG99? Instead, they only care about "guitar hero" COSM amplifier simulations that are years behind other modern modellers, like Fractal Audio. At other guitar forums you can find hundreds of guitarists that still believe that the V-Guitar is like a midi syntheisizer that triggers sounds like a keyboard! Not fair.

QuoteAt other guitar forums you can find hundreds of guitarists that still believe that the V-Guitar is like a midi syntheisizer that triggers sounds like a keyboard! Not fair.

So true - actually there are quite a few folks here at vguitarforums who remain clueless regarding what the VG-8, VG-88, and VG-99 are capable of (with their real time no latency response to ALL your playing dynamics)   - yet still remain convinced a GI-20 and a 20 year old MIDI Synth can do everything those can do (and more) .  ???
Its become a source of humor for me, and my only explanation as to why this phenomena persists is directly due to your local Roland Dealer's complete cluelessness about the V-Guitar COSM technology , VGuitar In Store Demo Stations that never worked, which is a direct result of incompetency of Roland Corp, from the regional sales manager, to the zero attention span of the Roland US telephone  technical support specialist in LA.

The AxeFX makes it a bit easier to zero in on things because (1) the company is super responsive to ideas from its user base and (2) there seem to be exponentially many more people who work on creating patches that are close to "the real thing" and (3) there's lots of people who have come up with patches and shared them.

The 99 can do it, I've got a new patch called "Experimental" and it really sounds and feels like an amp to me.  Kind of a Marshally sounding amp but with a little warmth so it could pass for a few things.

In my mind, I picture the 99 modeling like a block of cement where you chip away at certain things to get the right result - subtract here, polish there.  That way of thinking is kind of a Japanese subtractive approach and westerners tend to be a lot more impatient "I want this now!".  It's hard to argue with the Kemper modeling amp way of
doing it.  If Roland had done something like that on the 99 you could have had similar success.  But it can be really rewarding to come up with the sound you were chasing.

I can't think of too many guitarists who sit with their guitar and 99 and studio monitors and go "close, very close, okay try this, a little more here, a little less there" for long periods.  Lots of my patches have versions 1-20 because sometimes I stumble across something while searching for a specific thing that would be good for something else and
I can return to that later.

Again, we come back to the factory patches that I've referred to as "created by pulling an all nighter before a NAMM show".  That didn't really show what the 99 could do although there are a few patches that have some good ideas in them, they just didn't have time to subtract and polish to get it right.

Roland GR-D Review Posted:

http://youtu.be/eXLvTFXRiVw (http://youtu.be/eXLvTFXRiVw)

For a pedal with four knobs, and four modes, the review actually is quite long, It was originally around 20 minutes, now down to 10. I'm going to post the full text on a page some time.

Pretty cool pedal, I think it has its place....

BTW: Thanks to Elantric for the "deal" post, I bought the LGX-SA from Amazon thanks to Elantric!

Thanks for the detailed review of the GR-D

I'm still not hearing anything here that the VG-99 can not already do - true, one must first master programming the VG-99 effects parameters first. You will not get these tones on the VG-99 " right out of the box" like you can with the GR-D.

Right you are sir! As I noted at the end, the original VG-8 (1995) had all the GR-D features!

QuoteAs I noted at the end, the original VG-8 (1995) had all the GR-D features!

Which given the current used market price of $300 for a used VG-8, I would point out a Used VG-8 (or VG-88) might make a much better sound exploration investment than either of these new GR-D & GR-S

Well, that settles it, I'm sticking with my VG-99.   I was hoping there would be some value-add to these.  Still, nice sounds, and the footprint is good.  But to add this to my existing rig would be redundant.   

QuoteBut to add this to my existing rig would be redundant.   

and costly - since it requires a separate US-20 GK A/B box for each new "GR-x" pedal you add.
Totally boneheaded for Roland to omit a "GK13 pin "Thru" Jack on these GR-S, GR-D pedals.

Just by adding a $2.00 13 pin DIN Jack, Roland could have made it a whole lot easier and cheaper  to drive your other 13 pin gear and definitely would have sold more of these new pedals to existing GR-55 users.

But its rather like the omission of a 1/4" normal Guitar Input jack on the GR-55, It only confirms  / reminds me the current direction of Roland is greed, and half baked ideas.

Quote from: Elantric on February 19, 2013, 02:09:15 PM
But its rather like the omission of a 1/4" normal Guitar Input jack on the GR-55, It only confirms  / reminds me the current direction of Roland is greed, and half baked ideas.

gee-whiz.....i guess the image i have of eager Roland engineers product testing with "real life" musicians off the street, measuring customer experience of new products prototypes, etc,etc. is bit naive then....? another bubble burst.

Roland GR-S Demonstration:

http://youtu.be/3PQ3BJiouH8 (http://youtu.be/3PQ3BJiouH8)

Yes, it is the same performance I used with Reaktor 5.0. I recorded the individual string parts to Digital Performer using the GK-Expander. Then just connected a GR-S and played the track back through the GR-S.

Excellent demo Wayne  - Since you used the same pre-recorded multitrack as source, lets me compare apple to apples

There are ways to get the same patch on the 99 - make no mistake but that was kind of nice, kind of a harpsichordish tone.

OK!

A review for the GR-S posted, much more revealing of how the unit sound than the performance demo:

http://youtu.be/15O6W1EV0cs (http://youtu.be/15O6W1EV0cs)

My GR-D & GR-S arrived and I got to play around with them briefly last night.  Both are very cool & I love the simplicity of just turning knobs until I find a sound I like vs. sifting through menu's.  I'm not sure how much redundancy there is with my new GR-55, as I'm still figuring out how to use it as well.  I definitely like the array of distortion/synth sounds available on the GR-D, especially VG Distortion 2, Polydistortion & Synth settings (the patch on the GR-55 called "polydistortion" doesn't sound as good as the one on the GR-D).  The ambient/spacey sounds of the GR-S are really cool as well, especially the freeze function.  Tonight I want to plug them into my KPA and see what that sounds like (last night I just plugged into a Fender GDEC that was laying around)......not sure whether to use the "amp" or "line" setting though.

All in all, I'm very pleased with both pedals....just have to spend some time with them as well as the GR-55.

-oddguitar

Hi oddguitar,

I am very interested in getting the GR-S, could you share your experience with your unit so far?  And does it do something unique or better than the GR-55?

Thanks!  :)

After spending a bit of time with the GR-S, I would say it is much more like the VG-99, than the GR-55.

Most of the sounds in the GR-S sound to me like a layer of two COSM models, rather than the GR-55 which can layer a COSM sound with a PCM sound. And, as a COSM based synth, you do not have any tracking errors, or latency problems.

And the GR-S has the freeze feature for infinite sustain, a feature found on the VG-99, and not included in the GR-55.

I agree with drjones2001.  The reason I got both pedals was to get some dual COSM modeling options without going full-boat for the VG-99 + FC-300.  I also like that I can easily use them in front of my amp and quickly find a sound that I like by just twisting a few knobs.  The one thing I wish was different is having to keep the right pedal of the GR-S constantly depressed to keep the "freeze" tone sustaining.  I would much prefer that by pressing the right pedal the "freeze" tone would keep sustaining until I pressed the pedal again.  Other than that, I'm really digging both of them.  I'm especially liking the VG Dist 2, Poly Dist and Synth sounds of the GR-D.

-oddguitar

Hello gentlemen,

I am a total newbie in the synth world, please excuse me if my question sounds silly. 

I have a Godin Freeway SA, and want to trigger a soft synth such as Omnisphere.  Can I use GR-S to connect my computer to trigger Omnisphere?  Thanks in advance for your advice.  :)

QuoteI have a Godin Freeway SA, and want to trigger a soft synth such as Omnisphere.  Can I use GR-S to connect my computer to trigger Omnisphere?  Thanks in advance for your advice. 

No - you will need a Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion unit.


These perform  Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion and connect to Computer via USB

* VG-99, GR-55, GI-20

These perform Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion and connect to Computer via a 5pin MIDI connection (require a third party MIDI to USB cable or MIDI Interface)
* GR-33, GR-30,GR-20, GI-10.

Quote from: Elantric on April 17, 2013, 01:27:46 PM
No - you will need a Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion unit.


These perform  Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion and connect to Computer via USB

* VG-99, GR-55

These  Roland GK13 pin to MIDI conversion and connect to Computer via a 5pin MIDI connection (require a third party MIDI to USB cable or MIDI Interface)
* GR-33, GR-30, GI-10, GI-20

GI-20 has USB onboard.

QuoteGI-20 has USB onboard.

thanks!

I've used my VG-99 to trigger Omnisynth among other softsynths and am happy with the performance and capabilities.  Feel free to drop me a PM if you have any questions.

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

I'm thinking about picking up a second-hand Mexican Roland Ready Strat, but was wondering if the GK2 in it is going to be a problem with use with my GR-D & GR-S?  The manuals seems to infer that they will work with any GK guitar, however, I know that the GR55 has a different setting for the GK2 than the GK3.  These two pedals don't have that option, so I'm worried that they might be designed to work with the GK3 specifically...anybody have any idea?

-oddguitar

Hi folks!
I'm from Brazil, and use a Roland VG-88 v.2 for years. I'm looking for metheny gr-300 sound 1 octave up and i bought the Roland GR-D. The saw synht is great, but when i put in octave mode i get that pitch-shifter sound octave, especially in A and E strings. Increasing the Gk sensitivity the sounds get better, but you get ghost notes. Anybody knows how to improve the sound? I will share a link to hear what i'm talking about.

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/l9g0jJIQce/GR-D_test.html (http://www.4shared.com/mp3/l9g0jJIQce/GR-D_test.html)
I play 1 octave up after the 25 seconds.

Thanks and sorry about my English!!

Hello and sorry to chime in so late but I have a question for any GR-D owners - how well does this pedal work for old-school Belew/Fripp/Summers sounds? Based on the video demos online, it sounds like a passable (albeit poor man's) GR-300 with the hex fuzz and synth options. For those of us who don't need all of the bells & whistles of a VG-99 or GR-55, the GR-D seems like it might fit the bill. Any King Crimson/Police fans around who could speak to this?

Skip the Gr-D, GR-S and look at the new Boss GP-10 due to ship in 10 days.

www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10782.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10782.0)

Whoa...that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for the heads-up, Elantric!

http://youtu.be/4JVHXNTwfL4 (http://youtu.be/4JVHXNTwfL4)

http://youtu.be/Q4o3lAxPd3g (http://youtu.be/Q4o3lAxPd3g)

My thoughts

The first one minute of either video above serve as a good "primer" of what a GK-3 Hex PU is all about  - so maybe newbies will finally understand what a 13 pin Hex Pickup is (but IMHO the world 40 years from now will still call these "MIDI Pickups"  - all because of poor Roland "marketing damage" for the past 30 years.

(side note: But upon reflection I might as well try to convince Fender Marketing that the Strat has a  Vibrato Bar ( not a tremolo Bar) - so
"it is what it is"


One thing certain, even at $99/ea (July 4th 2014 sale) - these will not "sell out" anytime soon - i see no rush to buy

Its my opinion that after the Boss GP-10 has been out for 6 months - look for both these discontinued GR-S and GR-D to become  a  Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the day @ $49 each on Black Friday 2014 - or sooner, just to clear old stock. if you could afford to buy three GR-S's or Three GR-D's  today -  you might as well explore our group buy GP-10 and have "all that and more"  - just sayin ;)


   

I got the GR-S and GR-D today.
The GR-D is nice but the GR-S is a huge win,
With freeze it killer.
This is like adding another VG for ambient sounds and you can mix in another VG or GP ect.
For $99 it is unbelievable.

Agreed the GR-S is the "pick of the litter" in that group.

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F1902014%2F1404953020_1125273166_GRs.PNG&hash=7a65ae276bcdf6f64527f3c2677367d8d13f97a6)

Still, is there anything in the GR-S that can't be replicated in the VG-99?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reviving an old thread.  I just picked up both from Sweetwater for $99 each.  Anyone else having problems powering these from an external power supply or pedalboard?  Both units I got work fine with batteries but neither will power up with an external 9v supply (I tried three wall warts that work perfectly fine with every other Roland/Boss unit I own, as well as with my WP-20G and OC-20G) nor will they power from my SKB pedal board.  They're useless to me if I have to only use batteries with them.  Very strange.

--Tom

I do not own either GR-D or GR-S, but i know these use the Roland PSA-120 power supply

Owners Manual
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927084/GR-S_e02_W.pdf (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62927084/GR-S_e02_W.pdf)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2232014%2F1407871551_1068987560_Boss_PSA120.JPG&hash=05dbd9024f9e719edfc0afb247f7b1032338de50)

The Roland PSA-120 is actually a "9.05VDC @ 500mA Power supply, and the best alternative is a Visual Sound 1SPOT
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweetwater.com%2Fimages%2Fitems%2F750%2F1Spot9v-large.jpg&hash=dd1bcd9f6a1ad8ba41c00f4987b35437f5f1b877)

which is 100% compatible to all units that use the Roland PSA-120.  If your power supply only delivers 8.9V DC and less than 500mA current, you will never be able to power the GR-D, GR-S.

Also I would avoid powering multiple Roland GR-x units from one Power supply as these draw more current than typical stomp FX

Yeah, but all of my other Roland units that use that supply power just fine with the individual supplies I used.  It's not a current draw issue as two of the supplies were rated 1 A and one 850mA and the GR-D/S only draw 200mA.  There's nothing different about the PSA-120 that should make a difference here.  Same connector, etc.

Thanks though.  I'm baffled.

--Tom

There is a concept called "inrush current"  at power up, which is the device's momentary need for higher current during the few seconds of powering on. Many third party supplies cant deliver this, many  pedal board power supplies are designed for older analog FX with "brown sag 8.2VDC power options.

Either the official  Roland PSA-120 or Visual Sound 1Spot work with my Boss GP-10, which has similar power requirements as your Roland GR-S

I just bought a GR-S demo from Sweetwater for $89. Gotta' be worth that!
...Even just to have a 13 pin input that can run on batteries...

Quote from: Rhcole on October 25, 2014, 03:40:10 PM
I just bought a GR-S demo from Sweetwater for $89. Gotta' be worth that!
...Even just to have a 13 pin input that can run on batteries...

Might be the one that I returned last week!  The GR-S was cool, I liked it a lot more than the GR-D.  But I think
I can accomplish most of what those do with my GR-55 and GP-10 anyway, in spite of the powering problem.

--Tom

Well, it will need to run on a Boss adapter or it's defective.

They weren't worth $299, but at $99 they are a closeout bargain.

You KNOW a VG product has flopped when Elantric hasn't posted a separate section for them on this board!

Quote from: polaris20 on April 17, 2013, 01:32:14 PM
GI-20 has USB onboard.

It does, but there's no Windows 8 driver and I doubt Roland will rush to release one. Not a great loss but it means you can only use it via MIDI in/out with the latest version of Windows.

Got the GR-S. Powers up no problems with a regular Boss adapter. Sounds great.
I love that it can also run on batteries. I takes my GR setup with my battery amp outside for weddings and similar.

GREAT CLOSEOUT DEAL for $99.

Ya snooze ya lose.

QuoteGREAT CLOSEOUT DEAL for $99.

FWIW - Both have been priced at  $99 for past 5 months.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3032014%2F1414779441_631006068_GRD.PNG&hash=495b52f7f476d389680ca665701b7fce42fd3b28)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3032014%2F1414779437_1041444160_GRS2.PNG&hash=4a5517048acffc37a63722af137a305f038b676a)

I expect both GR-D & GR-S to be blown out  for $49 each  on Nov 28 "Black Friday"

Bookmark this URL and check in 3 weeks for many Black Friday Deals at many Stores in USA
https://blackfriday.com/flyers (https://blackfriday.com/flyers)

THAT would be crazy. I LIKE this pedal, it works great for expanding the GP-10. Puts my *Elantric* brand modded US-20 back in business.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3664.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3664.0)


Hey Bill R, thanks for talking it up here. I had completely ignored it.

Hey Guys-

Have any of you that bought the GR-S plugged a regular guitar into the input on the back and played with this thing? The tip for me was a video that hinted that even with regular guitar it's a "great chorus pedal". Heh-heh, I'll leave it to you to experiment with. The kicker for me is the stutter echo you can produce by controlling the Freeze pedal properly. And it turns all audio OFF when you switch it out! Right! But you still have the passive output on the back with the signal on!

Man, this is the STRANGEST pedal I've bought in a long time.

I LOVE IT!!!

I really like the effects on this pedal but I really dislike that there are no adjustable parameters.


I'm guessing these effects are borrowed from one the big Roland/BOSS processors, and I could find more fleshed out incarnations available in the VG-88/99, GR-55 or maybe GP-10. I've been having a hard time confirming this though. Can somebody point me in the right direction?

Check out the VG 8 s1 or vg8 ex vio guitar. The last vg8 ex that I saw on eBay was around $125. Note that the vioguitar was an upgrade and not found on non- upgraded vg8s.

Either a GR-55 or VG-99 can create all of those effects.

If anyone is curious, I posted new photos of the interior of the Roland GR-D. Not surprisingly, it looks pretty much like the interior of the Roaldn GR-S:

https://www.joness.com/gr300/GR-D.htm#photosInterior