GK - S1 & S2 buttons for the guitar!

Started by Gaustu, December 29, 2013, 08:07:31 AM

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Gaustu

Hi friends

After I build my hex Parker which has now 4 pots, 2 of them are comb/pushpull, and 2 3-way switches... now I feel I really miss sometimes very bad these buttons that are present on GK panel that is on my other guitar.
This guitar I talk about has Piezo HEX system.

I searched in the net and find nothing suitable for this purpose.
I would have the same black buttons that are included in the Roland internal GK kit.
But it's to crazy to buy that kit for those buttons only! But they are just perfect!

Can somebody point here what can I do, is there another choice for what I  need?

BTW, on some Godins there are something similar.
Oh, and I need only black ones.

Thank you in advance!
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

#1
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=654.0


I used a momentary  (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch for patch selection (S1, S2 replacement  spring loaded  (ON)-OFF-(ON)  mini toggle switch like Godin LGXT) that is the same size as the mag/hex switch.




Philmore Miniature Toggle Switch SPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) 5A @ 120V AC
Part No.: 30-10008
$2.59


Red switch cap is removable.
http://www.itcelectronics.com/product_info.php?cPath=1170_1388_1465&products_id=3493

Gaustu

Thank you Elantric, but alas,
I need buttons only to be on my guitar surface!

Maybe someone has them to sell??  :D
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric


jon_bondy

Roland has sold me the original push button switches as spare parts.  You may find them here

http://www.vintageplanet.nl/pages/roland2.html

under GK-2 Divided Picklup as "RL-13129742    Tact Switch" - I'm not sure what a "Tact Switch" is - you would have to ask them.

You can also call Roland and ask to order a part.  Then one of the following numbers may help you:

01341078

or

DS-663-C-R-W-S-K-K

If all else fails, I do have some spares here.

I would not use toggle switches, since they often make clicking noises that can be heard through the amp.  Be careful about where you place your switches: I put them too close to my strumming path on one guitar, and often hit them by accident.

Hope this helps!

Jon

Gaustu

Jon! thank you for a very close thing.

As about "RL-13129742    Tact Switch"  I guess this is just a button, but not a whole the thing that is for mounting on the guitar's surface.

I wonder, what push button switches did you get? Are they from the INTERNAL kit?
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/235

So if they are those which are the black pair at the right lower corner of picture, I would get them.

Yes, I understand about clicking noises but I will mount them the way to minimize that.

I sent the request to Roland and they will be available from tomorrow.
I am afraid they will agree to sell such a small parts apart for a price that is not crazy.

thank you for your help, I will tell you what next
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

#6
QuoteAs about "RL-13129742    Tact Switch"  I guess this is just a button,

"Tact Switch" is short for "Tactile Switch" = momentary action switch
http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/tact-switches/

QuoteSo if they are those which are the black pair at the right lower corner of picture, I would get them.
If you seek the large black S1, S2 Switches from a GK-Kit GT-3 Internal Kit - then call Roland Corp.


Or Roland US CUSTOMER SUPPORT

To order parts, literature, or for repair issues, please contact Customer Support at (323) 890-3740. Customer Support is open Monday through Friday, 8:30am to 5:00pm Pacific Time.

Roland Corporation U.S.
5100 S. Eastern Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90040-2938

Gaustu

#7
Quote from: Elantric on December 29, 2013, 11:50:22 AM

If you seek the large black S1, S2 Switches from a GK-Kit GT-3 Internal Kit - then call Roland Corp.
Yes, I seek for these.
I cannot call them, I sent them e-mail.

P.S. there I found one thing that appeared on eBay recently
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3A-125V-SPST-Normally-Open-Pushbutton-Momentary-Switch-2160417-/400619890474
Looks like to be ok, but for 1/2" hole - I wonder how big is it. I suppose Roland's are smaller
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

Suggest click here - then locate your nearest Roland Distributor for your region ( I understand you are in Europe)

http://www.roland.com/

Elantric

#9
Quotehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/3A-125V-SPST-Normally-Open-Pushbutton-Momentary-Switch-2160417-/400619890474
Looks like to be ok, but for 1/2" hole - I wonder how big is it.




By looking at the photo above, The bottom threads on the switch body must pass through a 1/2" inch (12.7mm) hole.

I would estimate that installed switch is 17mm diameter.

Everyone has different thoughts on what works for them, myself I think this is much too large  - fwiw I have identical thoughts about the GK-Kit-GK3  large black S1, S2 switches - I prefer much smaller momentary switches.

Regarding "pops and noise" - observe that the GK-3 employs .01uF caps to debounce the S1, S2 switches.
http://www.summitsource.com/eagle-push-button-switch-spst-normally-open-momentary-brass-silver-contact-solder-terminal-panel-mountable-replacement-installations-p-12058.html?ref=1&gclid=CMP6lO6n1rsCFYlhfgodKF4AhQ


Gaustu

Ha!
Knowing our ukarainian distributors it's for sure they will not sell so small parts from a full packages like this.
Such a biz is very specific at our part. It's much more probably to make a good deal with foreign company.
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Gaustu

#11
Quote from: Elantric on December 29, 2013, 12:45:03 PM



By looking at the photo above, The bottom threads on the switch body must pass through a 1/2" inch (12.7mm) hole.

I would estimate that installed switch is 17mm diameter

Yes
this looks like an interesting choice. The question is which of them (roland's or thisd) looks more plane on the guitar. and how much Roland's will cost.

Ah, caps. 01uF caps. But this is not a problem to use caps!
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Gaustu

#12
hey, agree, this second switch gonna look awfull on the guit!!!

The first black one looks like it is the same as Roland's!  Or maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, btw, last idea.  Can you Elantric measure the size of Roland's black button? I suppose you have it in your room LOL!!!
Seriously, Jon, or somebody who have it in guitar, please tell me the sizes of this button, So I will know for sure if this eBay thing is ok to buy it for this good price.
As I see from pictures on the net, Roland's buttons look good on guitars, for my preferences.

thank you!!!
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

#13
The S1/ S2 control lines on the 13 pin jack employ a simple RC debounce circuit comprised of a 1K series resistor and the  .01uF (  = 100nF) caps in parallel with the S1, S2 momentary switches, are there to "debounce" the mechanical tactile switch.
If you install a momentary switch from a different vendor - be sure it is Normally open, and if it results in erratic non repeatable behavior - then increasing the value of the .01uF caps which are in parallel with the S1, S2 switches to .033uF (330nF) might help. 

Its easier to simply add an additional .01uF cap right on the switch electrical solder lugs, since the caps depicted in the schematic above are actually small SMT type on the internal Roland GK-Kit-GT-3 PCB board 

When folks say they hear noise when they engage S1, S2 - its important to understand

1) Are they complaining about mechanical noise -

or

2) Actual pops in the audio path.

If its #2 - then the noise they hear may be a result of a DSP program change command in GR-55, VG-99 - not the S1, S2 Switch

Gaustu

Oh, btw, last idea.  Can you Elantric measure the size of Roland's black button? I suppose you have it in your room LOL!!!
Seriously, Jon, or somebody who have it in guitar, please tell me the sizes of this button, So I will know for sure if this eBay thing is ok to buy it for this good price.
As I see from pictures on the net, Roland's buttons look good on guitars, for my preferences.

thank you!!!
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

#15
If I find one I will post the dimensions - but the RAdio Shack version seems about similar size to the Roland GK-Kit-GT3 S1, S2 buttons to me.



QuoteKnowing our ukarainian distributors it's for sure they will not sell so small parts from a full packages like this.

Hope you find a suitable switch - one thing is for sure, this whole conversation would be impossible back in the 1960's!

gumbo

Hi Gaustu,

I have bought the original black Roland switches a number of times, direct from Roland here in Australia...the last time was in October this year.

They are certainly not cheap for what they are, but (unlike some people) I like the feel of these switches and prefer to install them as a I find the smaller ones not so easy to find with my fingers when playing..   ;)

The Roland part number for the switches is 01341078, and they cost me $8.50 Australian EACH...   sigh!
...I think Roland Australia still have some in stock..let me know if you would like me to check with them for you..here in Australia, they are quite reasonable to deal with, and I have a contact there.

A number of companies in Australia are closed for the Christmas / New Year break and do not open again until January 6th..I would expect Roland would also do that.

Hope this may be of help to you.

Cheers,
Peter



Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Gaustu

Quote from: Elantric on December 29, 2013, 12:59:22 PM
.......
When folks say they hear noise when they engage S1, S2 - its important to understand

1) Are they complaining about mechanical noise -

or

2) Actual pops in the audio path.

If its #2 - then the noise they hear may be a result of a DSP program change command in GR-55, VG-99 - not the S1, S2 Switch

Yes, of course, all this is understood. These are not really questions for me. Since Roland designed this to work so, the only small problem may be the acoustic clicking noise. But I think, if it is not so bad on the plastic Pickguards so it will not worse on my wooden piece.
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Gaustu

Quote from: gumbo on December 29, 2013, 01:11:03 PM

They are certainly not cheap for what they are, but (unlike some people) I like the feel of these switches and prefer to install them as a I find the smaller ones not so easy to find with my fingers when playing..   ;)

Yes, agree!

Ok, really, can you measure the larger diameter of your button (so if it will be 17 mm, then the button from eBuy link is the same as Roland's!)

thank you a lot
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

gumbo

#19
The switches I am talking about are exactly the same as the ones supplied with the GK Internal kit.

They are black, require a 15mm hole to install, and have a flange that sits against the pickguard (surrounding the 'button') which is 17mm in diameter.

The original Roland switches are tactile switches..which (at least in my mind) means that you get the feel of a slight 'click' as you operate it...  the ones on the eBay link possibly (?) do not have this feature..  I have used ones similar to them in test equipment that I have built..nothing wrong with them, it's just I prefer to have a distinct 'feel' to the operation of the S1, S2 switches when I operate them on a guitar...as i'm usually looking somewhere else when I'm doing that..   ;)

Regards,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Elantric

#20
QuoteThey are black, require a 15mm hole to install, and have a flange that sits against the pickguard (surrounding the 'button') which is 17mm in diameter.


Elantric wrote.
The Radio Shack version seems about similar size to the Roland GK-Kit-GT3 S1, S2 buttons to me. I would estimate that installed switch is 17mm diameter. 
Hey  - guess my calibrated eyeballs are still working ;)

Gaustu

Friends,

Thank you for this help!

I'm ordering these from eBay.
If they will be "silent" under a push I think this may be not very good but I think I will get used for this.
All in all I need this operation not for a live purposes.

Thank you!!!!!
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric


gumbo

Good luck with it all Gaustu...
..hope it all works out...I look forward to seeing the pictures!!   ;D

Cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Gaustu

Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.