FTP: Lack of Sustain issue

Started by melodymann, March 06, 2014, 03:08:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

melodymann

Has anyone else noticed the lack of sustain  with the FTP? What I mean is it the time you pick the note until you no longer have any control over it. The note keeps playing but is usually out of tune if any type of vibrato or bends have been applied. The pick-up is installed on a Godin XTSA as close to the bridge as possible with 1 mm clearance from
strings. Because it's on the XTSA I'm able to directly compare the FTP with the GR-55 and the sustain is MUCH better with the GR and seems to retain control until the note stops... This is my second unit and have talked about this with Frank at Fishman support and they seem to think it's fine (no other complaints). I find that very surprising...

Oh, I have tried all settings-smooth, auto etc. different pluggins, standalone, whithin a DAW yada-yada ...same

Terry

shawnb

Make sure settings are the same.  If you're in mono 'smooth' mode, with pitch bends & 6 channels, holding chords will go sour over time.    Both units do this; it is much more noticeable on some voices than on others.   Ftp auto mode is an improvement.    Won't happen if you're in chromatic mode on either unit.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

melodymann

Thanks Shawnb,
I'm talking about just single held notes on any string, obviously the pick-up has just stopped listening way to early, that's what it feels like. Pitch detection is lightning fast  but then it just tunes out(sorry) waiting for a new note, but I'm still playing the last one...
55 is better in this regard as was the Axon. Even the GR-33 "listened" longer.

Sometimes I like to think  "what if David Gilmore played the flute?" ya know, long controlled notes- without auto vibrato.


Elantric

#3
I do remember I had many Pitch issues with FTP with my xTSA due to the stock floating Strat type 2 point tremolo. I modified my xTSA by adding a SuperVee MagLok and my sustain  and FTP MIDI Tracking improved tremendously   





See Details here:
Godin xTSA
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7527.msg65516#msg65516

melodymann

Thanks Elantric,
I do have the tremel-no on my midi guitars, this basically makes them into stop tailpieces with a twist of a thumbscrew. It's not really pitch issues I'm having, I guess sustain is the wrong word. If you get a chance, try this, hook up the 55 and the FTP using similar patches. Play an open G and use your whammy bar to gently shake the note. What will probably happen is the FTP will stop receiving pitch change leaving the pitch wherever it is at that moment while the 55 will continue with vibrato until it stops sounding, for me a much more musical experience. The FTP is a clear winner as far as pitch detection but it seems to get lazy a few cycles down the line.... Maybe it's just me...

I have long been interested in the mag-lok but many reviews I have read say that it is not transparent as the website claims, that you can feel the center detent through the travel. Could be a dealbreaker for me. I'm eager to know what you think of it. Put it this way, if you could get the right sound out of your xTSA would you use it in your surf band?(excellent video by the way!)

Terry

Elantric

#5
QuoteI have long been interested in the mag-lok but many reviews I have read say that it is not transparent as the website claims, that you can feel the center detent through the travel. Could be a dealbreaker for me. I'm eager to know what you think of it. Put it this way, if you could get the right sound out of your xTSA would you use it in your surf band?(excellent video by the way!)

Yes the  MagLok does have a noticeable detention in the "home" position. I actually prefer this because it provides a stable bridge I can plant my right hand on for palm muting and stay in tune. I grew up playing gibsons in recent years lots of Ventures /Dick Dale surf on Jazzmasters (my favorite tremolo) Also the MagLok eliminates the "Sproing""Sproing" (diving board) tone all strings make on initial pick attack if you pick too hard using a full floating Strat type tremolo as used on the xTSA. With  MagLok I can do Eliot Easton string bending while ringing open strings stay in pitch. (Impossible with a full floating tremolo. )  With my playing technique I sound like a terrible guitarist if someone hands me Steve Vai's JEM with full floating Floyd as as soon as I palm mute it all goes sharp and playing Dick Dale  Miserloo reeks of out of tune Flat sounding Boing""Boing" crud. . .  It's no longer a stable instrument with a full floating Strat/Floyd bridge. Might work for making Warner's Bros Cartoon opening theme if that was my goal. People who play full floating Strat  /Floyd 2point bridges and can play in tune must have an extremely delicate pick attack akin to using a Qtip cotton swab for pick, and I don't. My 2cents.

melodymann

Ah, the age old wiggle stick debate rears its ugly head. Worthy of a forum of it's own I'd say. Funny how certain things bother certain people so much more than others... I agree with all the problems you cited, and there are more, but somehow I've managed to deal with them for 30+ years. Humans are remarkably adaptable. (Hand you're highly evolved midi guitar to a good guitar player who's never played one and it sounds like crap right?) There are literally countless examples throughout recording history of great players using guitars set up exactly as you have described making beautiful music! Many of them just embraced these weaknesses and built their style around them (Jeff Beck, Adrian Belew etc.) Scott Henderson (with his current Stevie Ray goes to Berkeley and gets assaulted by Jeff Beck approach ) appears to have had his bar surgically implanted. I love Mr. Henderson but frankly I get a little seasick after a while. As for Jeff Beck I think I've seen him pounding his guitar with a drumstick but never a Q-tip.


As much as these imperfections in our beloved whammy system continue to bother me, they don't bother me nearly as much as the FTP problem in my original post. When I call up a factory FTP patch called morphing lead and try and bend a note on the B string at the 15th fret up a whole tone the results are pretty pathetic, if I bend even a little slowly it won't even get there, if I go quicker and trying to add Vibtato....disaster. Listening closely, there is no viberato, it's basically jumping chromatically between two notes somewhere in the vicinity... Similar moves on lower strings yields better results but the higher you go and the further you bend the worse it gets. I'm probably getting in over my head here but to me this is pointing at a couple of things.1) The string is bending past the pole piece thereby weakening the signal. 2) could it be that the FTP stops listening(To pitch change not attack) after a certain cycle count... Faster cycle -shorter note -less control?

I'm surprised this doesn't bother other people, it's making me a bit gun shy, I'm afraid to hang on to any notes. I'm hoping it's something that could be addressed in a future firmware update.

Anybody with me?