Ice Blue - an arpeggiator for Hexaphonic VGuitar processors

Started by supernicd, February 02, 2014, 02:39:45 PM

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supernicd

I am not really sure where to post this.  Starting here, but feel free to move it.

This was my weekend project - Ice Blue.  It is an attempt to create an arpeggiator effect for hexaphonic Vguitar processors that don't have them.  Specifically I built it using the GR-55, but I can't see why it wouldn't work on a VG-99 as well.  I just don't have a VG-99 (yet) to test on or create patches for.  It is built in Lemur for iPad.

Here is a quick demo.


And here is a video setup guide for the GR-55.


I would definitely consider it to be in an alpha state at this point.  Lots of stuff working, and tons of stuff I'd love to add and polish up.  Unfortunately, the template started refusing to open in the computer based editor, and this is too tedious to code in the iPad editor, so going to reach out to Liine to see if they can help.

At this point, just thought I'd share and see what reactions you might have.  And if there's anyone out there who's good with Lemur development that wants to carry this down the next leg of it's journey, be my guest. :)  I probably won't have a block of time to spend with it again for a while.

What You Need

  • A hexaphonic guitar processor or synth (e.g. GR-55 or VG-99)
  • An iPad
  • Lemur
  • A class compliant iPad interface that supports MIDI IN and Out
Setup
Refer to the video for setup instructions.  Mainly, on your processor, you need to have GTR->MIDI turned on, and it needs to be in MONO mode starting on Channel 1.  The app is hard coded to this.  Also on your Lemur, you need to have the VGuitar processor connected to Target MIDI 1.  It is also hardcoded to this.

Patch Setup
The patches require special setup.  There are six assigns configured to control string volume from MIDI CCs 20-25.  There is also a seventh assign set up to control pitch shift on MIDI CC 26.  Refer to the example pathes in the zip file.

Enjoy.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
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pottsi39

This looks brilliant I would love to see a pc version of this so that us without iPads can join in on the fun

Elantric


pycraft

That is fabulous. I'm very keen on 70s synth music, and this sounds like Vangelis' Spiral straight out of the box!

I agree with the previous poster that a non-Apple version would be good.  However, this is something I'd consider buying a fruit-based product for, even if only for the one function - would it work on an old iPad 1 for example?   If it works on a VG-99 I'd pay for it, provided the resultant hardware cost isn't prohibitive.
 
Also, if using the VG-99, could it be run off the 99's USB in?

supernicd

Hey all, thanks for your interest and thoughts.  :)  I'll attempt to answer the questions posed.

Windows Version
I hear you.  I'm primarily a PC guy myself.  I don't really foresee a Windows version though, as this is written for Lemur, which is currently available only for iPad.  Lemur started out as a dedicated hardware module.  I'm not sure if the dedicated hardware is still available but if it was, my understanding is that it was more expensive than an iPad and the app.

VG-99
I just recently acquired a VG-99 and haven't tried it with Ice Blue yet.  I will attempt to do so in the next day or so and report my findings, and post a couple of patches if successful.  Theoretically it should work as the VG-99 has the same assign (and more) capabilities as the GR-55.

VG-99 and USB/MIDI
I have not tried USB/MIDI with the VG-99.  My understanding from other posts here is that the VG-99 USB is not a class compliant MIDI port, but you can get an $11 cable that would allow the iPad with a camera connection kit (CCK) to connect to the VG-99's 5 pin MIDI DIN connectors.  See info from Elantric here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0

iPad 1
From the iTunes store it looks like Lemur will work on an iPad 1.  I do have one but haven't tried it.  I will give that a shot as well and report my findings.  As far as buying an iPad just for this application, I would caution that this is very much experimental/alpha.  It is working but I'd hate to see someone buy additional hardware just for this and be disappointed if it didn't work as expected.  On the plus side, an iPad has all kinds of uses for a musician.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

I will add if considering buying a a cheap used iPad for your first foray in IOS Audio / MIDI processing - Buy any iPad EXCEPT the 1st generation, because this early first iPad is much slower and will not run IOS7, and bulk of Audio apps on the iTunes store will state minimum Hardware specification is iPad2 or newer.

http://ipad.about.com/od/iPad-Tutorials/a/How-To-Buy-A-Cheap-iPad.htm

and heres a deal for a refurb iPad3 @ $265
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3207.msg77229#msg77229

aliensporebomb

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

supernicd

I listened to the demos and these are both extremely cool!  I'll try to have a play with the actual patches soon.  One thing that I really like is that these were both created "in the box" with  no additional hardware/software (at least I think?).  I tried to do something similar with the GR-55 about a year ago, using the internal "wave" pedal as a modulation source, and setting up assigns to adjust string volume values based on it's value as it varied over time.

I never got results as good as what you or Smash have done though.  The result was not as smooth as I wanted and there was no way to account for strings that weren't currently being played.  So with the Lemur template I was trying for something a little more flexible that would take that into account, and also that the assigns could be copied/pasted to any patch and used with it.  So that it could be more or less dropped onto an existing favorite patch.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

aliensporebomb

Yes, mine were done totally in the box.  I call it an "arrangement patch" because there are two or three parts involved to it that could be used in a song. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

pycraft

Quote from: SuperNiCd on February 21, 2014, 07:23:18 AM
iPad 1
From the iTunes store it looks like Lemur will work on an iPad 1.  I do have one but haven't tried it.  I will give that a shot as well and report my findings.  As far as buying an iPad just for this application, I would caution that this is very much experimental/alpha.  It is working but I'd hate to see someone buy additional hardware just for this and be disappointed if it didn't work as expected.  On the plus side, an iPad has all kinds of uses for a musician.

I'd love to hear back about your experience with the iPad 1.  I fully appreciate the limitations Elantric and others have described about the iPad 1, but I look at it look this: a used iPad 1 in the UK is about $200-$250, which is squarely in "one-function guitar pedal territory" particularly for a function as useful as this.  I'd happily bolt an iPad 1 with Ice Blue over the VG99 and treat it like an interface extension.  I might be persuadable about a later iPad if it could simultaneously run this and handle an Ableton-style controller, otherwise I'd rather have a dedicated device to Ice Blue.  I have a feeling I'd use it an awful lot. But that's dependent on this getting to beta stage, I guess...

supernicd

I wanted to give you a partial update.  I did test this with the iPad 1, and it has no trouble at all running either Lemur or Ice Blue.  I was able to crank it up to the maximum speed and the iPad 1 kept up.  In my test with the GR-55 and iPad 1, everything worked as expected.  As an aside, you mentioned an Ableton controller and Lemur includes what looks to be a very nice Ableton controller, although I don't use Ableton, so can't say for sure.  But you can check out details and watch a video here.
https://liine.net/en/products/lemur/premium/livecontrol-2/

The VG-99 on the other hand, I have not quite figured out.  It is definitely receiving the MIDI note data from the VG-99, as I can see the note names changes as I play different chords.  It seems to be tracking fine.  What does not appear to be happening is that either the VG-99 is not sending MIDI note off data to Ice Blue, or Ice Blue is not receiving it.

I don't have more time to investigate this evening but will try to get back it soon.  I'm sure it's probably one of the 8,000 settings in the VG-99. :)  But sending Note ON data and not note OFF data seems like a weird thing for it to be doing.

Not sure.  If any of you VG-99 experts know what's happening, please share.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
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JehuJava


Sirkreuab

Anyone know if this will work with lemur for iphone as well?
I don't have an ipad but I have a iphone 5s and see lemur is on the App Store.
I'm seriously considering trying that what an irig midi to get this hooked up I see their is already a touch osc app on the store.   If this is iphone compatible it would also make it much or accessible for people I think!   I guess the only question is if it's designed for ipad lemur will it still work with iphone lemur or could it be altered to work with both ?

supernicd

I can say for sure that the template loads on an iPhone 5s.  It is less than ideal because it was created for an iPad and you have to scroll around - you can only see about 1/4 of the screen at one time.  That part should be pretty easily fixed.  Most of the things on the screen don't need to be visible; there are only a few controls to interact with and most are just for debugging as this never really made it past alpha status.  Some of the monitor objects' values are used, but they could be hidden or put on another page.

I haven't actually tried it on an iPhone outside of seeing if the template loads.  I do have one.  I'm trying to think if I have a MIDI interface that I could connect up to it and use...  I don't generally use my iPhone for music stuff outside of apps like Figure.  I'll try to free up a little time to try it out this week.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Sirkreuab

That all sounds pretty positive to me :)
I can totally see how the ipad would be more ideal, I just don't have one at the moment.
   
   I don't actually do any music app stuff on my phone either, but lately have been thinking unfortunately the gr55 may never see a  arpeggiator. This however looks very promising.
I can ways go out in the next week or so and acquire a iphone midi interface and give it a whirl
If you need a test monkey or something I'm willing to help out and provide feedback
And if there's any way to shrink the template down that could be figured out that would be fantastic too :)

I actually have an amptone labs xy midi pad in my guitar but as far as I know the midi in it isn't programmable it just sweeps between 0-127 depending on where you touch it although there is a hold button.    I here the two cherries version lets you program it to specific channels but I don't really know much. About it as it is I haven't tried incorporating it into the gr at all since in pretty sure you have to be able to send specific cc

Anyways though off topic sorry :b
This seems pretty cool there's such a great community here and it's awesome people are atill coming up with new ideas to get to places
It's only too bad roland doesn't support it more
Seems like vguitar has done way more to help me then roland lol
Thanks for the answer let me knownif there's anything I can do to help

supernicd

QuoteThis seems pretty cool there's such a great community here and it's awesome people are atill coming up with new ideas to get to places
It's only too bad roland doesn't support it more
Seems like vguitar has done way more to help me then roland lol
Thanks for the answer let me knownif there's anything I can do to help

Roland sells you the high performance automobile but doesn't necessarily include a road map to get you where you want to go. 

I'll see if I can get it working on iPhone and let you know before you spend money on an interface.  I surely have enough stuff around here to make something work for iPhone & GR-55 MIDI.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Sirkreuab


supernicd

Tested - it works fine on an iPhone 5.  I was even able to quickly make the interface a little better.  It at least all fits on one screen without scrolling.  Some of the indicators are pretty small but the parts you interact with should be large enough.  iPhone 5/5s/5c specific version attached.  I also repacked the original sample patches in this zip file.



While I had it out, also took a deeper look into the VG-99.  The VG-99 is definitely not sending note off messages, rather it sends a note on with a velocity of 0 when you stop the string abruptly (or otherwise), and synths are just fine with that, it seems.  There doesn't seem to be a way to change it - just the way Roland did VGuitar in 2004, I guess.  I think that Ice Blue could also be coded to listen for this message (and therefore work with the VG-99).  I probably won't do it unless someone's really interested, though.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Sirkreuab

That's totally awesome man I'm probably gonna go out and pick up an irig midi 2
Super excited to try this out :b thanks again gotta try it right away made my day :b
Keep on tinkering mad science for the win

supernicd

Funny you should say that.  Mad science is pretty much what this was all about for me, as I really haven't used this other than to make the demo.  I just got the idea in my head one day this might be possible - to add this missing feature to the 55 - and decided to try to build it.  The math and logic was a good mental workout.

Will be really interested to hear how it works for you, and would love to hear anything you create with it.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

Nice work.  I'm not much of an arpeggiator guy, so this got past me back in February, but the development and demo are both really impressive.

supernicd

Quote from: mbenigni on July 22, 2014, 06:45:23 AM
Nice work.  I'm not much of an arpeggiator guy, so this got past me back in February, but the development and demo are both really impressive.

Thanks, Marc.  Interestingly, I'm not much of an apreggiator guy either.  But sometimes the engineer in me takes over and gets into the musician in me's play time. ;)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

Quote from: SuperNiCd on July 22, 2014, 02:20:42 PM
Thanks, Marc.  Interestingly, I'm not much of an apreggiator guy either.  But sometimes the engineer in me takes over and gets into the musician in me's play time. ;)

Oh yeah, I never let that happen. ;)

l0veweap0n

Joe-
This is great.  I just got Lemur, got an iRig for my iPad 2, and started playing with your software.
At first I didn't notice the part about special patch setup, so I was confused as to why none of my chords were being arpeggiated.  Now that I'm using your patches, it's working.

Feature request: A bypass button?  Something whereby we can switch between arpeggiating and just-regular-playing.

Question: If I turn Lemur off, then I notice the two patches you supplied behave differently.  The "Juper Lead Arp" patch behaves somewhat 'normally', however the "Tele & Vox Arp" patch only makes a sound when I play on the high string.  I'm wondering what makes these different, and how this would affect the "bypass" settings.

Thanks for working on this.  Please keep it up!

supernicd

Glad you're enjoying it!

I would think a bypass button would be doable.  Would this make sense to have on-screen or would it be better to have rigged to a stomp on the CTRL or EXP SW?  Or both?

Honestly it's been a while since I've looked and don't have a ready explanation about the differences in the patches with Lemur bypassed.  I'll have to have a look.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------