GP-10 Live?

[supernicd]

I know a lot of you have had your hands on one or more GP-10s for a month or two now.  For those of you who have used them in live sets, what's been your experience?  How does it fit into your rig?  Are you having any challenges?  For those of you have gigged with another VG/GR in the past, how does it compare (pros/cons/washes)?

[MusicOverGear]

I use only a GP-10 and a powered monitor and it has changed my life. It has cured me 100% of Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I'd been making progress for a while, but it wasn't until I bonded with the GP-10 - within the first few shows - that I sincerely lost all interest in other gear. I have one guitar that is basically a controller for the GP-10, plus the GP-10, and that is basically my only prosthesis for the world of music. It's great.

I will say that while the timbral toolset is more than I can really utilize with my limited imagination, I personally need a much more expansive interface than what is built into the little yellow box. I added a MIDI foot controller and a couple of expression pedals, and now I have a very sturdy, malleable interface. I am a hacker by nature; it may be a bit much for someone who E.G. has a tech do their guitar setups. With a carefully-thought-out interface I can have a coherent workflow for each project, but it can be different for each project. E.g. I have a one-off concert tomorrow that has lots of quick cues that would require practice to get clean with normal footswitching, so I set up each patch so that one footswitch is a momentary sound change.

The OSC synth suits the kinds of music I am doing these days - never very satisfied with guitar synth until now; I mainly used guitar-to-MIDI for notation, production, and horrible variety bands. The OSC is a real instrument - I can play it without getting in my head about technique. I mean it is a nearly transparent prosthesis. OTOH I couldn't really calculate how much time I've spent reading books, watching tutorials, and just fiddling to learn to program an old school synth. It's one of those things that has just a few variables but is surprisingly deep. Also there are no usable factory patches for the OSC synth - you are starting completely from scratch, PLUS there is no public info on the calibration of the OSC synth, so you have to start off good enough to find e.g. attack times by ear. Also the curve of most parameters is way too fast at the bottom - i.e. it could really use more resolution between 1-10 and give up lots of resolution at the top, which is uncritical to feel.  All told I'm ecstatic about the OSC synth and I use it a lot IRL.

One last thing: if you look at the GP-10 on paper - e.g. the signal flow - and think, oh, this is limited because you don't have two completely independent paths, you're looking at it wrong. Once in maybe 10 new patches do I wish I could have two FX instances; but zero times out of hundreds so far have I failed to come up with the sound I want. Also my programming is still getting better by the day - I've been deep into this thing since early July and I'm not on the plateau yet! Don't worry about running out of options unless you have a really specific thing in mind already and you need e.g. an acoustic model AND and OSC synth. If you have that much in mind already it will be very easy to pick a toolset.

Overall I'd say the GP-10 is the most powerful rig I've used in terms of just being a whole palette of musical instruments. I've used laptop based rigs before that could do more, but the GP-10 feels like I am playing music, not triggering samples or setting in motion a whole clunky processing chain. It is very snappy and playable, and that counts for a lot with me. Also it is the easiest rig I've used in terms of the sound ALWAYS being there. Rooms that swallow whole frequency bands can't seem to totally kill the sounds from my GP-10 and my little powered monitor - don't know why that is, but I'm happy about it.

[pasha811]

I am back to gigging in a couple of month and yesterday I had a rehearsal with the band and I have tried to cut the VG99 down to less than a GP-10. How? Strip MIDI pedalboard off. Add 1 EV5 and FP-6 like CTRL3&4 pedals to act as up/down patches and on my GK2A the S1 and S2 buttons to act as modifier of the sound, witch has been created on VG99 channel A, using only (and always for my 10 patches) COSM Guitar and or Natural Guitar PU, COSM AMP, Chorus, Delay, Reverb and EQ (if Distortion was On, compressor was off as they belong to the same FX block). No other FX was used. Moreover I have activated patch extend so that I can circle from 50 to 59 back and forth and setup every patch so that on average I can reach the needed patch one footswitch press away. It needed a lot of planning but so far I am satisfied by the results. I have rediscovered my 1989 Strat+ Lace Sensors and enjoyed COSM AMP Gain and Solo Channel. I have visual control of my PU position and I can have an additional sound layer on it. I like to layer GR300 with a guitar sound for fat pads swells. The Acoustic Guitar was there when needed and a Jazz Guitar L4 or 335 was there as well to add COSM powers to my Strat+. It's a new world I have never explored in the past three years I own a VG99 and this minimal setup is lighter to carry around and compared to GP-10 I have less control.. (GP-10 has 2 CTRL pedal and can be extended to CTRL3/4 so 4 modifiers, plus GK S1&S2!). Sometimes rework the basics helps gaining some points of view. GP-10 might be mine soon or not, still deciding but sure this trimmed down VG99 of mine helped me to discover the less is more dimension and can be achieved by every VG99 owner!

Best
Pasha

[scheater5]

I just had my third gig with it last night, and I am extremely pleased. 

I use it almost exclusively as a alt-tuning, guitar modeler.  Basically, a Variax alternative. 

Unfortunately, for me, there are some serious caveats.  MusicOverGear above me says that the routing limitations have not impeded him.  Well, that are quite a big "gotcha" to me.  The poor routing and lack of midi I/O has made it very difficult to incorporate into my current rig. 

I don't like the COSM amps as much as my Line 6 modeling (which I eventually intend to step up to a Kemper).  The COSM amps are good - but I like the Line 6 better.  So in order to get the GP-10 to play nice with the Line 6, I've had to do some creative shenanigans that, unfortunately, mean I don't get to use ANY of the FX from the GP-10.  I have said this other places on this forum - a proper mixer and an FX loop and I could, for instance, have a boss OD in front of a Line 6 amp, back into a boss delay.  Add midi, and I could have that setup, and with the flick of a pedal have a modeled acoustic with a full range amp and a Line 6 reverb.  (Boss has better delays, Line 6 has crazy awesome reverbs).  Instead, I have to use up the only FX block for panning, and no FX loop means my signal chain goes out of the GP-10 and into the Line 6 - Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200, Cannot use 4CM. 

ALL THAT being said, I bought it exclusively for the guitar modeling, with the COSM effects being a nice extra.  The guitar modeling is awesome, I'm just sad I don't get the aforementioned extras.

Oh!  almost forgot.  It works fantastic live.  It's given me no trouble once I got it to play nice with other gear.  Sounds great, feels sturdy, been reliable so far.

[Elantric]

I'll repost my live Boss GP-10 experience from last week  here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.msg89530#msg89530

I played accompaniment  lead guitar as a part of an acoustic  duo with a local singer songwriter.

Since this was a low volume acoustic setting in the corner of a  local restaurant with a small PA  - I was just going to use my Variax 700 Acoustic > Fender Volume /tone pedal> LR Baggs Venue DI box > House PA and use the single house PA vocal floor monitor to hear myself in the mono mix of all vocals and all guitars.

But 24 hours before the gig, my Variax 700 Acoustic "A" string piezo saddle  became intermittent and needed repair  -so at the last minute I decided i would shift gears and use my Godin LGX-SA > Boss GP-10 and use the Acoustic COSM models.

90 minutes before the gig I did a trial sound test at home with my Alesis Alpha 112A Powered speaker as this represents a similar performance characteristic of the house PA at the venue I was to be performing.

I discovered I needed to tame ground loop buzz, and I had very little time to prepare  I had an ART RDP passive DI Box laying nearby I tried that but its designed for re-amping with built in non unity gain with built in - 20db signal attenuation  (even with all its Volume controls maxed out on 10)   so I ended up using the Boss GP-10( on Line/Phones setting)  left mono out > 1/4" instrument input on LR Baggs Venue DI box and left all its EQ controls set Flat and fed its XLR out into the Powered PA cab.

I copied Factory preset #58 "GB45 Basic" (Gibson J-45 Acoustic COSM)  to the empty range of the GP-10's patch area   #92 
and I copied Factory preset #65 "MA28 Set" (Martin D-28 Acoustic COSM)  to GP-10's patch area   #93 

I figured using this strategy I would have multiple choices for  acoustic tones and I'd use the one that best fits the house mix at the gig.

I fired up Boss Tone Studio Editor and in seconds on both patches I reassigned the CTL pedal #1 to enable disable delay instead of Alt Tuning(which I did not need for this gig), I set CTL #2 to enable /disable COSM 12 string. I needed a volume pedal for swells on many tunes and originally I was going to assign the GP-10 built in expression to Volume  - but during my home sound check I discovered that both these factory GP-10 patches #57 and #65 feature a panning to normal electric guitar tones when the expression pedal is set heel down  - and was actually very happy with these COSM Amp Sim  tones using my Godin LGX-SA's Seymour Duncan humbucking pickups. I figured these tube amp tones might be helpful in the mix as the other guitarist who was  strumming using her Taylor with Fishman Piezo into the PA. Often it can be a confusing mess when there are multiple acoustics with similar tones in a mono PA, and I wanted the option for my guitar to stand apart for better clarity.

So I located my Roland EV-5 expression pedal and connected that to the GP-10 External Expression jack, and used Boss Tone Studio Editor  to map Expression pedal #2 as Volume.

I then spent the next 30 minutes adjusting the internal mixer on the GP-10  - so my Acoustic / electric guitar pan pedal had matching volume levels and click "write" for both patches  - for safety I copied patch #92 to Patch # 94 - in this manner I could start at patch # 92  (Gibson J-45) and if that proved too bright in the PA mix , I could use patch #93 (Martin D-28 Acoustic), and if I had a patch up/down pedal accident  - I had a safety copy of patch #92 at Patch #94 

At the gig that night, I ended up using  #93 (Martin D-28 Acoustic), and through the house PA I sounded just like a Martin acoustic, but for solos I ended up using the Neck PU and and the GP-10's Fender Deluxe Crunch COSM Amp sim (that was inherited from  factory patch #65)  and it sounded great in the house PA -  took all of 1 minute to set up/teardown. This was a situation where a VG-99 on a chrome stand would have been a distraction to the audience since it was a very small intimate setting, My guitar sounds were great  I love the Boss GP-10, and my recent acquired 2013 Godin LGX-SA ( $600 on eBay due to a cracked headstock which was an easy fix)    - I had many compliments on my guitar tone, and we had a great gig

Maybe others were born too late to appreciate the GP-10.

When i was playing Blues in Chicago back in '72 my peers all shunned using any effects - it was straight cable into Tube Amp, and we all learned the trick using the passive guitar controls to get wide range of tones.

I find with GP-10 I can sequence patch order clean - lead - clean - solo - novelty tone - clean and just use the patch up down buttons and have my whole sonic palette of tones I need, and other band members enjoy the smaller stage foot print, and i enjoy the fast setup / tear down. I owned a Boss GT-5 back in 1996, but could never get comfy with the Roland COSM Tube modeling circa 1995  - fast forward to 2014, and the Boss GP-10 Tube amps breath and have more dynamic response compared to VG-99. The GR-55 COSM amps are probably very close to GP-10 (but missing the GP-10's "T-Comp" Amp Compression control) -

Ultimately I never adapted to the GR-55 very well for live use - all due to that damn 200ms gap / mute on each GR-55 patch change.

By contrast the GP-10 patch changes feel as fast as using  my analog pedals. And I find the GP-10 stock factory patches with all their deep user CTL1, CTL2 Expression pedal assignments ( Expression pedal #2 defaults to Tone on most factory presets) totally workable  - this is the first 13 pin product I feel I could go out and gig with 2 hours after opening up the box. Many of the Boss GP-10's limitations are actually strengths
   

[supernicd]

Thank you all.  Great stuff here.  I've enjoyed reading these answers.  If others have experiences here, keep 'em coming!   I guess kind of a follow on question is, if anyone has a GP-10 and is NOT using it live, what's stopping you (other than "I don't play live", of course).

[Alec Lee]

It has cured me 100% of Gear Acquisition Syndrome.

Famous last words.  I just posted on the topic yesterday.

[Elantric]

Famous last words.  I just posted on the topic yesterday.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/90748-axe-fx-not-permanent-cure-gas-13-pin-content.html

Cool.

I was going to say  - go ahead and inform the FractalAudio AX-FX Forum folks about VGuitarforums - but its not required.

Anyone can google "GP-10 group buy" and it takes you right here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10877.0

[MusicOverGear]

Famous last words.  I just posted on the topic yesterday.

actually got off the versatility treadmill a few steps before I got completely off of gas.part of my problem is that I do a lot of low money productions. Demos, vanity projects, speculative productions, that kind of thing.I think the only reason I get a lot of that work is that, one I'm willing to work within 2014 budgets, which are a tiny fraction of budgets in the 80s and 90s, and also because I have a ton of guitars, amps, and effects, & I always try to deliver unique, appropriate sounds.before the GP 10, it was all patch cables, pedals, & a million guitars and pickups. Now, it's just Bosston e studio. That's it. I literally use the GP 10 4 tracks where acoustic guitar is prominent in the mix. Part of it is just giving up caring too much about stuff that doesn't matter. I mean doesn't matter to producers.I think the other big thing, huge thing, is that reading up on since programming has really opened my eyes to making things fit into a mix, making things sound the way they should with EQ and other simple parameters. Bthe GP 10 is genius for that

[drbill]

I'm liking it a lot. I take the GP-10 in a backpack and my guitar to rehearsal and add my MacBook Pro to the backpack & run it through my KPA on stage. After Elantric's warning about the brittle solder in the VG-99, I'm getting really paranoid about taking it out of the house, though I'm probably going to sell it soon anyway.

[pasha811]

After Elantric's warning about the brittle solder in the VG-99

Ops I think I missed it and I am also paranoid about VG99 out of home. Can you point me to Elantric's post?
What is KPA?
Why will you sell VG99?

Best Regards
Paolo

[DeRigueur]

I can't answer the other questions, but KPA is the Kemper Profiling Amp.  A high-end amp/fx "modeler".

[drbill]

Elantric explained that 2006 was soon after lead solder was banned & what Roland used then wasn't very durable.

The amp models on the KPA are so much better than anything else, I hate settling for less even if the GP 10 is 95% of the way there. I was already pretty much using the -99 for guitar models & synths only, unless I just didn't want to carry everything or was letting my son use the KPA. I don't have the gear budget to keep everything, so I'll be selling the 99 (& my Receptor) when I can get around to it.

[pasha811]

Elantric explained that 2006 was soon after lead solder was banned & what Roland used then wasn't very durable.

The amp models on the KPA are so much better than anything else, I hate settling for less even if the GP 10 is 95% of the way there. I was already pretty much using the -99 for guitar models & synths only, unless I just didn't want to carry everything or was letting my son use the KPA. I don't have the gear budget to keep everything, so I'll be selling the 99 (& my Receptor) when I can get around to it.

Thanks for reply!
It looks VG99 can break internally every time. I hope my unit, being a Late 2010 belongs to a better batch..otherwise GP-10 soon to come. The same applies to me about Budget. VG99 can raise up some money even if in Italy is not very well known.

Best
Paolo

[giffenf]

I played my GP-10 live for the first time this past weekend, and while my results were less than stellar, I don't believe it was the GP-10's fault.  I made some mistakes:  #1) Never try TWO new pieces of gear live at the same time.  That's just begging for trouble, and I got what I asked for.  But I was too excited to try out the GP-10 AND my new amp (a Quilter Steelaire), and I lost my senses.  #2) Never leave last-minute changes to the last minute.  I knew I needed to add a patch for "Folsom Prison Blues" with tuning up a half-step and the slap-back turned on, but didn't do it in the comfort of home or rehearsal studio, or with the ease of Tone Studio, I did it with the GP-10's buttons and menus.  Yikes, what a pain.  So while dialing in the delay time and checking it by ear by thumping my A string, pop!  The A string broke.  3 minutes to down beat.  On a guitar with a Wilkinson vibrato, that gave me one broken string and five out-of-tune strings.  Who breaks their A string, anyway?  Isn't it always the high E?  Dug out my gig bag and spare strings, found a table with decent light and made friends with the young lady sitting there while changing the string.

The issues I will for now credit to the mistake of trying to new items at the same gig included:

Strange high-frequency response, or lack thereof.  It's a Tele fer cryin' out loud.  Why did it sound like a jazz box with the tone knob rolled down?  There's nothing wrong with that tone, unless you're getting it while trying to play a Merle Haggard tune.  I wasn't even using the modeled guitar, it was the mag pickups.  Amp EQ was set flat.  That one's a mystery for now.

Patch was set to use the GK volume control to adjust the patch level from 0-200.  Occasionally I cranked it all the way and still couldn't hear it.  Thought the band leader was messing with me (that amp is a flame thrower and he might have thought it a bit loud for the room and one point or another; never any louder than the drummer; most jets are not louder than our drummer).  Still looking into that one.

Effects and amp models on regular pickups didn't sound right.  The modeled Tele sounds sounded more like Teles than the real Tele did.  Still looking into that.

Acoustic tones, which sounded great at home and in rehearsal, sounded like, well, like something that doesn't sound good, certainly not like an acoustic guitar.  Probably an amp thing.

Volumes I thought I'd leveled off across all the patches I'd built had great variation in volume.  Again, could be an amp thing.

Lots of gigs next month with the same set list in the same room, so I should have it nailed down by Halloween or thereabouts.  Not terrible at all right now, and still the lightest pedalboard I've ever assembled, but I don't feel comfortably in control of what's coming out of it yet.  At this point in time, if there were no room for error on a gig, I'd go back to my VG-99.  In a month, I'm betting I'll feel differently.

[gumtown]

A lesson well learnt then,
I too have been burnt by applying settings or uploading new patches, or trying a new GK guitar right before a gig without any auditioning.

A) always test things well before, and have a 'no changes' period of 1~2 days before a gig.

B) have a backup plan if things turn to custard.

C) (I have needed this twice now) Bring a laptop + USB cable and a 'last known good configuration' backup.

[gumbo]

...all makes sense..

...but the one remaining, burning question:
   ...did you get the phone number of the girl at the table???     

[supernicd]

Who breaks their A string, anyway?  Isn't it always the high E?

I used to play with a guy who was continually breaking his low E string.  Not occasionally but once every 2-3 sessions.  No idea how the heck he pulled that off.  Must have found a company that made a custom set of 10s and 1 rusted out old anemic 46.

[glennfin]

Most likely a knife edge bridge saddle.. 

I used to play with a guy who was continually breaking his low E string.  Not occasionally but once every 2-3 sessions.  No idea how the heck he pulled that off.  Must have found a company that made a custom set of 10s and 1 rusted out old anemic 46.

[mbenigni]

Probably an amp thing.

giffenf, what were you using to audition GP-10 tones at home, prior to the gig?  If you went from full range monitors to a guitar amp, that would explain 90% of the problems you had.  Note also that the GP-10 will try to auto-detect which outputs you are using (e.g. Left/Mono vs. headphones) and adjust EQ settings accordingly.  This may also play a part in the absence of high-frequency content (the "wax paper"/ "kazoo" effect).

The GP-10 is really designed to be used straight to an FRFR monitoring solution.  Using a guitar amp can also work well - sometimes even better - but you've got to be consistent, configure the outputs accordingly, and for best results do some custom programming for each patch.

[glennfin]

I'm going to be using the GP-10 for a grab and go live rig. I like the fact that's it's small. My grab-n-go setup will be the GP-10, My Mesa Express 5:25+ head with a full stack of mini rectifier cabs and a Carvin HF2S. I'm going to build a GP10 to Raspberry to MIDI to amp channel switcher box to switch amp channels based on the patch selected on the GP-10.

In the VG99 forum, you'll notice I posted instructions on how to modify the VG99 to allow an external device to be inserted in an FX loop. I did this because I don't use amp modeling distortion. (except a Kemper in my studio) I could go into a long rant about why I only use real tube distortion but I'll save everyone from torture 

I plan on using all the FX and features of the GP-10 EXCEPT the amp modeling distortions. (same thing I do with the VG-99) The Mesa is an incredible amp and can produce exactly the tones I love.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 

[pasha811]

The GP-10 is really designed to be used straight to an FRFR monitoring solution.  Using a guitar amp can also work well - sometimes even better - you've got to be consistent, configure the outputs accordingly, and for best results do some custom programming for each patch.

I am curious about this. I am on a long term plan to get the GP-10 but I have no monitors I have a Fender Transistor Amp (20 years old I guess..) that has proven to work ok with my VG99. If the GP-10 switches EQ without my consent based on what it's connected to it I am scared!

Best
Pasha

[mbenigni]

I am curious about this. I am on a long term plan to get the GP-10 but I have no monitors I have a Fender Transistor Amp (20 years old I guess..) that has proven to work ok with my VG99. If the GP-10 switches EQ without my consent based on what it's connected to it I am scared!

Best
Pasha

Don't be scared!    It should work just as well as your VG99 in this regard.  You just want to pay attention to the output settings (i.e. Line vs. Combo amp etc.)  You can disable the auto-detect if I'm not mistaken.  It's just a matter of knowing the settings exist in the first place.

[mbenigni]

I plan on using all the FX and features of the GP-10 EXCEPT the amp modeling distortions. (same thing I do with the VG-99) The Mesa is an incredible amp and can produce exactly the tones I love.

That makes perfect sense and I'd probably do the same.  (My main rig is based around an Express 5:25 too, coincidentally.)  But it doesn't answer my question.  When you said:

Acoustic tones, which sounded great at home and in rehearsal, sounded like, well, like something that doesn't sound good, certainly not like an acoustic guitar.  Probably an amp thing.

What was the variable between home/rehearsal, and the bad sounds at the gig?  Were you using the Mesa at home and the Quilter at rehearsal, or was there a third amp/monitor altogether when auditioning sounds at home?

[Elantric]

I used to play with a guy who was continually breaking his low E string.  Not occasionally but once every 2-3 sessions.  No idea how the heck he pulled that off.  Must have found a company that made a custom set of 10s and 1 rusted out old anemic 46.

I have a a few guitars with 50's style Gibson wrap around tailpieces and due to the severe bend at the ball end of the string to accommodate the bridge design, It was easy to break any string, anytime.




Glennfin wrote>

In the VG99 forum, you'll notice I posted instructions on how to modify the VG99 to allow an external device to be inserted in an FX loop. I did this because I don't use amp modeling distortion. (except a Kemper in my studio) I could go into a long rant about why I only use real tube distortion but I'll save everyone from torture 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=474.0

If you do the a similar External FX loop mod for the GP-10 - post plans here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11717.0

Elantric explained that 2006 was soon after lead solder was banned & what Roland used then wasn't very durable.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11620.msg84411#msg84411


Myself I own two VG-99's  - one is perfect, and the other VG-99 I purchased for $100 "for parts only" because it suffers an anomaly during patch changes that sounds like a runaway reverb tail sound, that eventually locks up the unit. The problem is due to a poor internal solder joint on the PC board under one of the DSP ICs.  The 1st 2007 VG-99 production run used a then new "lead free solder" RoHS/WEE manufacturing process, and apparently Roland did not have their IR / Hot air wave solder recipe adjusted properly for the 1st VG-99 production run. Roland US quoted $750 for a repair comprising a main PC board swap, and the old owner decided to sell for parts         

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive