MIDI CC from an external Source for volume reduction

Started by mwd, March 20, 2014, 11:25:13 AM

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mwd

My bandmate has been using the GR-55 for a couple of years now. We control patch changes via MIDI with ShowBuddy software from a MacBook. It controls our light show as well as patch changes for all of our pre-amps, amps, echo, reverb and Voice live units as well. I bought my GR55 for the versatility of my own rig (later) but for the moment more to help my buddy dive into his and take the GR-55 MIDI control to a new level.

There are 2 areas that I would like to see if someone can point me in the right direction.

1. On one patch he has to reduce volume during a solo. He is doing so with the pedal. I told him we should be able to send a CC command to automate this process to possibly cut volume 20% briefly and then restore full volume as needed.

After getting my GR-55 I see the presets have a solo function. I am thinking that even though this is usually used for a boost couldn't it also be used to reduce the signal as well?.

Could someone tell me the CC on/off command for that solo function?

2. The second issue is during one measure during a song it is necessary to turn the PCM's off due to an out-of-tune dissonance that is unpleasant. It is being done by rolling off the volume briefly but it is a pain.

Could someone point me to the correct CC on/off command for the PCM functions?

I appreciate any help.


gumtown

"Look at the Assigns" says a mysterious voice from nowhere.
If you look at the Asigns section,
you can control many GR-55 parameters from the Target options,
and control them with many cc# from the Source options.
Select a cc# and note the midi channel number (system settings),
then match that from the software controller.

The solo function only boosts, but with the above assigns/cc# method, you can control levels, PCM on/off, and much more.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mwd

Thank you both for the info and help. I'm used to mainly program change messages. I had already read some of the data you suggested but it just wasn't clicking yet. So technically both of my buddies issues are related to Patch Volume. One issue needs to back off a bit and one needs to mute for a few seconds.

Therefore, if I understand you guys correctly, I could turn on Assign 1 and give it a target of Patch Level with a source of CC#01. Then sending CC#01 messages, with different values, would simulate a volume control where I could back off on one of his patches and mute totally on the other? 

Elantric

#4
QuoteTherefore, if I understand you guys correctly, I could turn on Assign 1 and give it a target of Patch Level with a source of CC#01. Then sending CC#01 messages, with different values, would simulate a volume control where I could back off on one of his patches and mute totally on the other?


Most gear uses MIDI CC#7 for Volume (data 0-127) where a MIDI CC#7 data value of "0" = no sound, MIDI CC#7 data value of "127" = Full Max volume.

Read more here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

mwd

Uggghhh. Having a brain block. I don't have my show software at home so I'm using Logic to generate PC and CC messages. They are hitting the GR-55 but the CC isn't working. I have tried assigning Volume and just reverb on/off. The patch change is working but I can't get the CC's to do anything. I turn the assign orange light on, assign cc#7 to patch volume and send a 100 command and then a 25 command anticipating volume changes. Actually the patch goes silent. 

mwd

Lost me on that one Elantric. Looks like it's referring to different GK profiles. Not seeing the correlation to CC messages on that one.

Elantric


mwd

Driving me nuts. I am an admitted beginner on CC messages. My Big Sky and VL were fairly straight forward but this GR-55 is kicking my butt. I assigned CC85 to patch volume for testing and trying to get a grip and this is my discovery. I tried to send commands to vary the patch volume and it basically just does on/off. So I then switched to just turn on/off a PCM tone.

I sent 127 and it turned on. Then I noticed another 127 would turn it off only if I sent some other value in between. So CC85/127 then CC85/0 then CC85/127 would turn PCM1 Off then back on.

Is there any way to have the patch volume controlled by the pedal and send variable signals that would simulate (or control) the pedal? So I could call up on the fly 25% or 50% or 100% of the volume. Or something like that. I just need the capability to back off a preset by a bit for a few seconds and also the capability of killing the synth sound for a few seconds.

My go around is to create a mute preset for one solution and create a duplicate lower volume preset on the one that needs reduced volume and control it with PC messages. I was hoping to accomplish this with CC messages.   

Elantric


gumtown

Check your assigns "source Mode" if it is set to "Toggle" it will do just that, extreme on/off switching.
Set it to "Moment" and set the Target Min/Max parameters where you want them (minimum = 100 and maximum = 120 or whatever the valuse you need).
The default values for the Min/max will always be the extreme min/max (just like off/on), and you need to set them on each assign to the range you want.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mwd

Will read up on your post Elantric and your suggestions gumtown. Thanks a bunch. Guess I'm thinking in terms of MIDI drums and such whereas the values are like a variable slider instead of just 2 settings on/off or min/max. Was hoping to throw a 127 and get full volume or a 0 and get no volume or values for everything in between.

Elantric

#12
Quote"Was hoping to throw a 127 and get full volume or a 0 and get no volume or values for everything in between."

YEs - using a remote MIDI footpedal with an Expression pedal that scan be mapped to CC#7 and send data 0-127 ( or anything in between) thats how most of us control volume of the GR-55 remotely.
Read here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10855.msg78794#msg78794
http://www.rolandus.com/support/knowledge_base?product=GR-55&keywords=&stype=any&submit=Search


and here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10675.msg77421#msg77421


*GR-55 Control Assignments
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10677.0

I find it valuable to use  an iPAd +Apple Camera Connection Kit + USB Class Complaint MIDI Interface 
(read here)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0
Then use and IOS app called "MIDI Monitor" to send test MIDI messages and inspect all MIDI Traffic



https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/midi-monitor/id395750746?mt=8


See Equivalent MIDI apps for Windows
http://www.midiox.com/

If you have a Mac, "Snoize" is an OSX equivalent to MIDI-OX

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/




or Android Pads/Phones






and how to use them to debug your MIDI Controlled guitar Rig here:

MIDI controller Setup / Debug
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0



mwd

I will digest this info. I have an iMac at home and MacBook at the studio. I have downloaded the Snoize app and am learning it. Yes, to be clear, I want to 'replace' the MIDI footpedal expression pedal with a MIDI software track. Like a 'virtual' expression pedal. 0 to 127 whereas 63 would (for example) be half volume.

Elantric

#14
As a test

1) Disconnect the GR-55 and set it aside  - we will get back to it later.
 
2)  Connect your external MIDI Controller with an expression pedal (Many use a Behringer FCB-1010) that generates the MIDI CC#7 (data 1-127)


3) Use a separate MIDI Interface ( I use a cheap MIDI to USB cable) connect to your Mac and launch Snoise MIDI Monitor.

4) Move the   expression pedal  - verify it generates MIDI communication  - you should see MIDI CC#7  or "Channel Volume" (data 1-127) - Write down the MIDI CH (Channel Number)  - there are 16 MIDI Channels - All devices must be on the same MIDI channel or set to transmit  / receive on all channels. But these must match. I'm using MIDI Channel 1 in this example
On the far left below we see the MIDI Data changes over time as we move the External Expression Pedal
Example of Snoize MIDI Monitor MIDI Message activity screen below:
  TIME               SOURCE          Message   Ch    DATA
08:23:10.742   From FCB-1010   Control   1  Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.048   From FCB-1010    Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   101
08:23:12.055   From FCB-1010    Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   98

. . . . .

Now that we have established our MIDI Controller is working - now disconnect the External Expression pedal and now lets configure the GR-55 USer Patch to Respond to the  External Expression Pedal.

5) Connect the GR-55 to your Mac using USB - requires the Roland GR-55 USB Driver is installed on your Mac.

6) Lanuch GR-55 Floorboard Editor, Find a USER Patch you want to use.

7) Enable MIDI Receive - see "RECEIVE PROGRAM CHANGE" = ON ( see screen below)


8 ) Look on the upper right "ASSIGNS"  Click on  "1" - ( could be any of 1-8)  - and Assign 1 configure box open  - match the settings shown in the center Assigement Window
( see screen below)


9) Save the patch or press "Write" twice on the GR-55

10) Shutdown GR-55 Floorbaord Editor, Disconnect the GR-55 from the Mac, and connect your External Expression Pedal MIDI OUT into the GR-55 MIDI IN. - You should now have remote volume control of the GR-55 using  External Expression Pedal.





mwd

I appreciate all the efforts Elantric. Guess that is where I am miscommunicating. I don't have an external expression pedal and don't want to use one. I want to use a computer MIDI track generated by Logic or ShowBuddy. At a certain part of a song I want to send a CC command that will reduce volume for 5 seconds then another CC command to restore that volume. I would like for it to function as if it were an expression pedal with the ability to send commands that would choose any level of volume. Not just on or off or just hi or low.

I have already verified via snoize, Logic and showbuddy that the messages are being sent. Just don't know how to apply them or create a variable automated volume control.   

Elantric

#16
Easy - just follow all the same procedure above - just use Logic or ShowBuddy MIDI Control  instead of FCB-1010.

But be sure to follow all the steps# 5 thru 10 above to set up GR-55 to react to external MIDI CC#7 Volume messages first
- you need to do this regardless for any Remote control of GR-55 Volume  using MIDI

Snoize MIDI Monitor will detect all MIDI traffic on your Mac - its essential you confirm MIDI messages are being sent by Logic or ShowBuddy.

Elantric

#17
Also suggest ask the same question on the Showbuddy forum
http://forums.dmxis.com/viewforum.php?f=12


http://www.dmxis.com/midi-output-show-buddy-equipment/
What equipment do I need for the MIDI Output feature of Show Buddy?
Posted on August 14, 2012
The MIDI Out feature in Show Buddy is primarily intended for controlling hardware FX (like the Roland GT-10 or TC Helicon VoiceLive examples shown in the 1.1.0 release video).

For this, you (obviously) need some external equipment that can be controlled via MIDI commands. Some equipment supports MIDI directly via USB, so all you need to do is install the appropriate drivers and plug the equipment into a spare USB port.

In other cases, where the equipment does not support MIDI over USB, you will need a separate USB-MIDI interface for your computer like this one. Your external equipment would then plug into the MIDI interface.

Show Buddy can also send MIDI to other programs running on the same computer, via a MIDI loopback driver (such as LoopBe on Windows or the standard IAC MIDI driver in OS X). This would let you, for example, synchronise video playback on a VJ program like Resolume with Show Buddy – assuming your computer is powerful enough to run both Show Buddy and the VJ program simultaneously.

http://www.dmxis.com/video-show-buddy-midi-output/

mwd

Absolutely AWESOME. Got it.

Not understanding that the momentary switching was capable of variable control put me one click away from success. 

Issued 5 commands to test:

127 = 100% volume
32 = 25%
64 = 50%
95 = 75%
0 = 0 or off or mute.

I appreciate your help and patience. Thank you both so much.

Elantric

#19
Glad we got your rig  working - this will help others too!

Quote
Not understanding that the momentary switching was capable of variable control put me one click away from success. 
For Expression Pedals,  "Moment'" is simply a Roland Term which Roland employs for defining the operation of Expression pedals, or a foot switch  button you wish to only work when being held down, -think of "Moment" as the opposite of "Toggle"

Other gear often uses these terms
Moment = Non Latched
Toggle = Latched