Keith McMillen Strong Arm guitar sustainer

Started by thebrushwithin, January 26, 2014, 08:05:25 AM

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GovernorSilver

#25
Quote from: thebrushwithin on February 10, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
Also, if the Eastsider T uses Tele saddles, then there should be no problem using Strong Arm saddles.

Except that Elantric's post implies that KMI will initially sell the StrongArm only to luthiers, not to an end user like me.  Thus, I cannot buy a StrongArm directly and then take an Eastsider T to my local guitar tech to install StrongArm.  I can't take ANY existing guitar to the tech to have StrongArm installed.  The only way I can get StrongArm is to have a luther build me a NEW guitar.  This is all assuming I read Elantric's post properly of course.

The Eastsider T, btw, uses the newer style Tele bridge (6 individual saddles, not old-school 3-saddle).  Regarding trem vs. fixed bridge, we apparently have different tastes.  I already have two guitars with trems, but can't install StrongArm on either one for the above reasons.  I don't have a fixed bridge guitar which I can tune down to C on a whim or other crazy tunings - yes I can use my VG-99, but I like to have the physical sensations of tunings like CGDGGD (used by Preston Reed on a couple of tunes), hence my desire for a fixed bridge axe.

thebrushwithin

Yes, the company did say they will sell them to luthiers, but maybe not just for a new guitar. If the luthier meets their requirements, retrofitting an existing guitar should not be a problem, I would think.
Fishman may also sell luthier kits, for the Triple Play, in the future. That is probably a smart move, so that quality is insured. I'm just happy this is happening, and I hope it delivers as promised.

Gaustu

Quote from: thebrushwithin on February 04, 2014, 03:34:13 PM
I just found this info on Synthtopia:

The Keith McMillen Instruments StrongArm Sustainer system comes with six sustainer saddles, smart driver card, rechargeable battery system and editor. StrongArm Sustainer list price is $495.

Very difficult to guess what will be there in "editor".  Maybe it's just for sustainer mode setup.
The only benefit of this thing I can understand is the separate-6 channels sustainer instead of one-channel like we have on the market. The question is not still clear - what huge advantages will it give to the player. And how usable they will be found on practice.
If they really are. it would be not bad.
I would say you can make your own "string port" hardware part these days for 250 usd + little time for soldering. As a variant of this, you can get audio interface usb or fw with 6 analog inputs 24 bit compatible. The rest part of task is just the matter of simple soldering work for connecting your 13 pin with this box.
I think it was the main reason why StringPort was stopped to be the product.
As for me, I see there the question - do I need the neat 6-ch sustainer for 250 usd?
As about usb 6 channels.... ::) it seems to me it will replace 13 pin cable later or sooner in the future for those who dont need wireless (battery matters)
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

thebrushwithin

QuoteI think it was the main reason why StringPort was stopped
I think so too. Maybe they will include some of their previous software, from StringPort, although the ability to use any software would be ideal. Actually, I was surprised when they told me the USB connection would allow 6 channel processing, and drive soft synths too. Wireless is very appealing, but eliminating the 13 pin cable is good enough for me. Hopefully they will come out with some really good video demos, like they had with Al Ayoub, instead of just letting the strings sustain.

Gaustu

StringPort software, if to dig in its GUI was something... we need if we need something like VG99 of course.
But since we have 6 audio ports, it's not a question to use any software which receives multiple sound ports
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Frank

Quote from: Gaustu on February 11, 2014, 05:37:48 AM
Very difficult to guess what will be there in "editor".  Maybe it's just for sustainer mode setup.
The only benefit of this thing I can understand is the separate-6 channels sustainer instead of one-channel like we have on the market. The question is not still clear - what huge advantages will it give to the player. And how usable they will be found on practice.
I would say you can make your own "string port" hardware part these days for 250 usd + little time for soldering. As a variant of this, you can get audio interface usb or fw with 6 analog inputs 24 bit compatible. The rest part of task is just the matter of simple soldering work for connecting your 13 pin with this box.
I think it was the main reason why StringPort was stopped to be the product.
As for me, I see there the question - do I need the neat 6-ch sustainer for 250 usd?
If you watch the videos, Keith states a few of the functions; sustain on selected strings only, "zoned sustain", specific to a fretboard range.
The current monophonic sustainers from Fernandes & Sustainiac are not truly polyphonic and have a weaker output as they work on different technology.
Polyphonic sustain means just that; independent sustain for each string (like the Moog guitar/VO-96), if you can't see the value in it, it's probably not for you.
Stringport was a very well engineered device (building your own even purely analogue system of a similar quality is not straightforward), I suspect the main reason it failed is that most guitarists are not very adventurous and don't lean towards the experimental, open ended processing environment of Stringport. 
For instance it didn't contain many guitar like sounds, compared to something like a GR-55 which has a dated, generic, sound canvas engine and a selection of guitar models from previous VG units, the sales speak for themselves in terms of what guitarists gravitate towards.
For me, six channel sustain opens up a wealth of musical opportunities, it depends what music you make and how far your imagination stretches I suppose. 

GovernorSilver

#31
Quote from: thebrushwithin on February 11, 2014, 05:27:13 AM
Yes, the company did say they will sell them to luthiers, but maybe not just for a new guitar.

I will be watching for updates on this particular bit of news with great interest.  I signed up for the newsletter.

I probably won't get this on that hollowbody guitar - I doubt all that routing would be good for that type of guitar. 

Gaustu

#32
Quote from: Frank on February 11, 2014, 06:48:29 AM
... I suspect the main reason it failed is that most guitarists are not very adventurous and don't lean towards the experimental, open ended processing environment of Stringport. 

.... the sales speak for themselves in terms of what guitarists gravitate towards.

Completely agree and I'm about exactly the same.
listen for samples/patches/demos in entire net and we see 1% of guitar-lovers symbolically uses something principally NEW what COSM and other thech offers in contemporary devices! This market is for this 1%??! So that's why vg-99/and so on is discontinued - trivially but a truth.
And I am about the same - how many pro players and club bands care about installing electronic sustainers !??? What can we suppose about poly-sustainer then?
Million guitarists need mostly of everything the dirty-farky sound of Urge Overkill for they are eager to go to big satisfaction.
As about me, I'd just eager to buy this to try this out because I cannot predict how it feels in practice.
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

GovernorSilver

Quote from: Gaustu on February 11, 2014, 02:07:05 PM
And I am about the same - how many pro players and club bands care about installing electronic sustainers !??? What can we suppose about poly-sustainer then?

Adrian Belew and Vernon Reid play signature model Parker guitars with Sustainiacs.  Fareed Haque has a Moog Guitar.

The problem with Sustainiac is that the sustain is only truly polyphonic for a short time - the notes on the thicker strings soon take over the sound and the notes on the lighter strings fade out.

The problem with Moog Guitar is that it requires special strings and special pickups, and must be installed on purpose-built guitars (no retrofitting into a cheap Strat/Tele).  StrongArm should, in theory, work with any brand of string and your favorite pickups.

Elantric

#34
QuoteThe problem with Moog Guitar is that it requires special strings and special pickups, and must be installed on purpose-built guitars (no retrofitting into a cheap Strat/Tele).  StrongArm should, in theory, work with any brand of string and your favorite pickups.

Add that the Moog Guitar is completly incompatible with a Roland GK-3 PU or FTP PU or Antares Autotune PU , or any other Magentic Divided hex pickup - due to the severely powerful magnetic flux paths created when the Moog Guitar sustainer is active.

GovernorSilver

Quote from: Elantric on February 11, 2014, 03:18:14 PM
Add that the Moog Guitar is completly incompatible with a Roland GK-3 PU or FTP PU or Antares Autotune PU , or any other Magentic Divided hex pickup - due to the severely powerful magnetic flux paths created when the Moog Guitar sustainer is active.

Ah, so they used a proprietary hex pickup - piezo I guess?  Makes sense.  I've only heard from one person who bought a MIDI Moog Guitar E1.  His comments:

Moog pickups are crap to be honest, very noisy, very hissy, very distorted, bad shielding for EM and a pretty nasty general tone.

The midi board went wrong causing terrible hum on the piezo so it got sent off for mending (9 weeks it took), I asked them to check the noisy pickups and they said they were normal.

I might sell it actually, I'm not using it and when I do only through the VG99 for a virtual guitar and then you lose the filtering but it does sound 100 times better!

There has been a fair few complaints about the pickups on the moog forum, it basically means you cannot really use it as a general guitar, if the vo power is on then it's great as the noise is hidden, as a normal guitar it stinks.


I love how he said it sounds 100 times better through the VG-99.

thebrushwithin

I've never experienced the noise on my Moog, but it is absolutely true that it really only works well with modeled guitar, ala VG... It tracks great on synth though. I have tried it with my Kemper, and it proves you can't really "put lipstick on a pig", and expect beauty. So, the enjoyment that I do experience with the polyphonic sustain, really excites me about the Strong Arm. It sounds like KMI has really taken note of the limitations of the Moog, and made huge improvements. So, I look forward to having infinite sustain WITH my favorite pickups, into the outstanding Kemper. Also, very curious about the 6 audio channel USB output.

Elantric

Business is a gamble and in  any high tech endeavor - there is high risk of never selling enough units to obtain a Return on the Investment,
Id love the Strong Arm Sustainer - and hope there is updated info in 6 weeks at 2015 Winter NAMM
I'm aware of the fact that Keith McMillen has a few coals in the fire - ( and I wish him the best success in all his endeavors !)
He is also CEO of BeBob Instruments and working on a new endeavor for wearable control systems 
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/technology/new-innovation-aims-to/1490924.html

Research shows one of the biggest problems consumers have with wearables is that they do not look fashionable, and a new generation of fabric-makers and clothing designers is looking to fill that gap.

PHOTOSVIDEOS
This shoe insole from BeBop Sensors can show a person how they are walking and help correct their gait. 
ENLARGECAPTION
BERKELEY, California: Tech companies are cashing in on the trend for wearable devices, an industry predicted to rocket from US$1.4 billion to US$19 billion by 2018.

Wearables are all the rage - from Wristify, a smart bracelet that cuts energy use by heating or cooling the wearer, to lightweight 3D-printed robotic hands for young amputees. But many wearables feel bulky, so new innovation aims to take them off consumers' bodies and put them into what they wear.

BeBop Sensors, in Berkeley, near San Francisco, recently unveiled an ultra-thin "smart fabric" that gives real-time information on motion, bending and pressure. They see applications in everything from ski jackets to baseball gloves and yoga mats.

Keith McMillen, Founder and CEO of BeBop Sensors, said: "The sensors can operate and communicate through fabric to a small embedded circuit that will then take over the rest of the processing and transmission of the data."

The company has found a way to use kinetic energy to power their embedded circuits and bluetooth sending data to a remote device. For example, a shoe insole can show a person how they are walking and help correct their gait. Chair cushions highlight uneven weight distribution, and the smart fabric - fitted within a cap - can record the force of a sports injury.

The company transitioned to fabrics from elegant electronic instruments, and understood that wearables must look good. "They either have to be beautiful or unnoticeable," said Mr McMillen

BeBop Sensors is looking for manufacturers and distributors - including in Asia - to help bring their smart fabric to the high street within 6 months. While those creations will have a health or fitness dimension, plenty of other designers are mixing fashion and technology just for fun.

tshirtOS is the brainchild of San Francisco startup Switch Embassy - it is a programmable, shareable t-shirt with an LED screen, camera and microphone that connects to a smartphone. The question is, will anyone buy it?

Owen Geronimo, Founder of the San Francisco Fashion And Merchants Alliance, said: "If it is affordable and it is cool, sort of like a fast fashion approach, people will buy it."

In the future, smart fabrics combined with 3D printing may allow consumers to design and make their own clothes, while keeping track of how the body underneath functions.

thebrushwithin

#38
Just about a week ago, I once again inquired directly to Jon Short, sales manager with McMillen,
QuoteHi Jon,
Sorry to be a pest about the sustainer, but it has been 7 months, since I last contacted you. Any news on the StrongArm? Maybe this next NAMM show?
Thanks,
Mark
and he replied "There have been no updates for the sustainer's release date."
Hope you are right about 2015 NAMM, as a possibility. I have had the sneaking suspicion that there haven't been enough inquiries, for him to consider putting a priority on its release.
It's potential is major, IMO!!!
Please, if anyone is interested, sign up for updates on this page: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/strongarm
I feel if enough people knock on his door about this, we might see its release much sooner!

Elantric

This article explains some of the risks in small production run music gear and possibly why the KMI StrongArm Sustainer release was impacted / on hold.
http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/09/12/creating-dj-hardware-with-kickstarter-the-right-move-for-kmi]
[url]http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/09/12/creating-dj-hardware-with-kickstarter-the-right-move-for-kmi
's-quneo/[/url]
QuoteCreating DJ Hardware With Kickstarter: The Right Move For KMI's QuNeo?

POSTED BY KYLEE SWENSON ON SEPTEMBER 12, 2012
24 Comments
In 2012, Kickstarter—the most popular crowd-funding site—turned a handful of little-known entrepreneurs into millionaires. These innovators, game designers and artists came up with ideas, set dollar goals for their campaigns, and watched as strangers scrambled to throw money at them. How well does Kickstarter really work in the context of bringing DJ controllers and other hardware to market? Today we take an in-depth look at the story of Keith McMillen's QuNeo controller and the Kickstarter project that supported it.


One of the most talked-about Kickstarter campaigns is Pebble Technology's programmable wristwatch, which raked in an unprecedented $10.3 million dollars in funding (the goal was $100,000). But then came the hard part: manufacturing and shipping 85,000 watches. Like 75 percent of other technology- and design-related projects on Kickstarter (as reported by Bloomberg), Pebble Technology didn't hit their target date and hasn't yet delivered on their promises. As of September 5, the company hadn't announced a ship date for the Pebble watch, although their regular progress reports (featuring videos, photos, and FAQs) are somewhat reassuring for backers.



In January, another technology company successfully funded its Kickstarter campaign, but this one wasn't a startup. Keith McMillen, the founder of Keith McMillen Instruments (KMI), has built and marketed music gear for 30 years. In 2012, he decided to launch KMI's QuNeo 3D Multi-touch Pad Controller using crowd-funding.

"A lot times I'll develop an instrument and wait until it's finished to announce it, and that's safer from a PR/timing perspective," McMillen says. "But Kickstarter was fascinating, and it really did exemplify the viral capabilities of an Internet universe. A third of the supporters came in during the last 48 hours. John Paul Jones from Led Zeppelin came in, and Herbie Hancock came in with eight hours to go." By the end date, the campaign brought in 678 backers and $165,914, blowing away KMI's $15,000 goal.

It helped that tech blogs such as Create Digital Music—as well as early praise from synth pioneer Tom Oberheim and musician Vernon Reid—ignited buzz about the QuNeo. The backers came running. "The potential to have a compact 'touch sensitive' controller was the last thing I felt I needed to control Ableton," says supporter Chris Blarsky (aka deathstarchris) from Denver, Co.

Based in Berkeley, Calif., KMI also attracted backers from as far as Istanbul, Turkey, including musician/sound designer Korhan Erel. "I prefer to be physically disconnected from the computer, especially the screen, which means controllers are essential for my playing," he says. "The QuNeo is in some ways more advanced than the iPad, as it is more tactile and offers the pressure dimension."

WRENCH IN THE MACHINE

After the QuNeo Kickstarter campaign closed, KMI hit the ground running to start production. The estimated ship date for the QuNeo was set for March, and a few lucky artist endorsees got their hands on the controller early, such as producer/rapper Thavius Beck.

Everything was going smoothly... at first. Then McMillen discovered that some of the "meatball, 4 cent components" were defective: "I called the manufacturer, and they go, 'Well, it can't be our components. We make 10 million of these every week.' So I did like seven different prototype runs and kept sending them units, and they wouldn't even look at them. Finally, at the end of March they said, 'You're right. The components are bad.' That took four months."



KMI's team took on the arduous task of replacing 350,000 parts. A few weeks later, they discovered that the replacement components were also bad. "It was just horrible," McMillen says. "My heart hit the ground, and they refused to even investigate."

So McMillen bought sample components from 10 other manufacturers, did more testing and prototype runs, and when he received the third batch of components from a new manufacturer, production started moving. "I've been building stuff a long time but have never seen a company treat customers like this," McMillen laments. "It was really frustrating because every experiment would take three to six weeks, and there was nothing to report
."

It brings into question the ethics of manufacturing in China. "It's a land of great expansion," McMillen says:

"It's like the Wild West, and you're gonna run into problems. Some of the stuff that goes into the QuNeo can only be built there because they have the most sophisticated machinery. If I tried to build this stuff in North America, it's not even possible. So as a nation, we got ourselves into this, and there are pluses and minuses."

thebrushwithin

FWIW, somewhat positive news concerning the StrongArm Sustainer. Keith ha once again included a visible tag for it, on his new website, complete with a signup for any further news.
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/strongarm/

Elantric


vanceg

Quote from: GovernorSilver on February 11, 2014, 03:48:35 PM
Ah, so they used a proprietary hex pickup - piezo I guess?  Makes sense.  I've only heard from one person who bought a MIDI Moog Guitar E1.  His comments:


Oh, I bought the very first one. 
I no longer have it.
I got it ONLY to run it through the VG-99.  I was the one who "discovered" that the GK-3 won't work with it and finally Moog went with the Graphtech Ghost system...which I really don't care for on guitars with tremolos....

I now have the Vo96 system installed on a solid body electric with an Aescher Europe Hex pickup and I'm still working on getting all of the electromagnetic interference down...but this time I'm sure I'll succeed...the Vo96 has much less stray noise.

Personally, I didn't mind the tone of the Moog Guitar's magnetic pickups...they just weren't really "normal" sounding.

vanceg

Quote from: Elantric on July 08, 2015, 04:26:35 PM
"not currently in production"


And no word on when, or if, it will be, I assume.

thebrushwithin

Just received this email update today!
Back in the saddle again?
Perhaps in production for NAMM?
Fingers crossed!!!
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/strongarm/


Frank

Quote from: thebrushwithin on November 03, 2015, 02:41:44 PM
Just received this email update today!
Back in the saddle again?
Perhaps in production for NAMM?
Fingers crossed!!!
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/strongarm/
I notice that they didn't demo the Stringport 2 at the same time as the Strongarm.
It would be cool to know if they can coexist on one instrument.

thebrushwithin

QuotePun intended?
Caught in the act.

QuoteI notice that they didn't demo the Stringport 2 at the same time as the Strongarm.
It would be cool to know if they can coexist on one instrument.

Yes, their demos always leave a lot of questions unanswered, and from my past experience with their products, it is wise NOT to assume anything as a possibility, until you read the manual, and even call their support team with questions, before purchasing. Brilliant products, but I am never impressed by their demos. The Stringport 2 does not intrigue me, but the sustainer, and the mixer have my attention.
My first question will be, if either 13 pin can be implemented with the system, and will the strength of the magnetic piezos interfere with using an attached Triple Play, as I cannot use a Triple Play with my beloved Moog guitar, unfortunately.

Now_And_Then

 I'm glad the Windows software for the Stringport never materialized; that saved me, if I correctly recall, about $1000. How well did KMI ever support it, I wonder. It makes me very wary of their products.

(And I'm also glad that I didn't make the effort to get a Moog E-1. That saved me plenty more.)

"Six individual saddle pieces contain an ultra high fidelity pickup..."  Clearly, the piezo output is meant for GK devices, and the odd fellow who wants an acoustic-guitar-like tone with infinite sustain, for whatever small novelty value such a sound is worth.

There's a reason why the VG-99 had 3 different piezo settings. You might need a fourth for the StrongArm hex output - and because Roland ain't gonna supply you with one, you could end up spending long hours wrestling with it. RMC might be able to put something together to make the hex output workable with existing equipment, but such a box could end up being half the cost of the StrongArm itself.

If KMI absolutely, positively had to include a piezo / hex pickup they would have been smart to use off-the-shelf components, which does not appear to be what they have done.  Unless the pickup they chose can use the same eq curves as those already provided by the VG-99 and other Roland devices (assuming that they have multiple piezo input settings), they might end up getting nothing but complaints about it.

Fractal and Kemper users can simply ignore the hex output, but a Roland user might have problems using their units for both "sound designer" and realistic amp sounds.

To me, the Gizmotron 2.0 seems like a much better investment that the StrongArm: I'm thinking that the "infinite sustain" of the Gizmotron coupled with its ability to produce unique bow-like timbres makes it more useful and interesting than the StrongArm's "infinite sustain" with (as far as I can determine) typical guitar timbres. (I am presuming that the StrongArm to leave a guitar note's typical attack basically unchanged and therefore much more "guitar-like" than the Gizmotron.)

thebrushwithin

QuoteTo me, the Gizmotron 2.0 seems like a much better investment that the StrongArm: I'm thinking that the "infinite sustain" of the Gizmotron coupled with its ability to produce unique bow-like timbres makes it more useful and interesting than the StrongArm's "infinite sustain" with (as far as I can determine) typical guitar timbres. (I am presuming that the StrongArm to leave a guitar note's typical attack basically unchanged and therefore much more "guitar-like" than the Gizmotron.)

My past experience with the original Gizmotron, does not even approach the satisfaction I have, with any of my Sustainiacs, Fernandes, and especially the Moog E1-M. The StrongArm's potential seems great, but "we'll see"!