VG-99 - can't plug 1/4" and Gk at same time, need 13 pin schematic for the GK

Started by RobertT, August 19, 2009, 11:51:12 AM

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RobertT

Roland confirmed to me that you can't leave both a 1/4" cable and the GK cable plugged into the unit. It's one or the other. This means that every time I switch guitars, I have to go to the VG-99 and plug and unplug if one guitar is GK equipped and the other guitar isn't. A real pain.

Roland says that there's a switch in the 1/4" input that detects the plug so they can't write a software patch for this change.

What I'm thinking is that since the GK3 pickup can "pass through" the regular 1/4" source, then I should be able to rig an adapter for the GK cable with a male 1/4" jack on one end and a 13 pin female on the other. That way I could leave the GK cable in the VG-99 and when I change guitars simply use the adapter with the GK cable for guitars without the GK plug.

Of course, besides the hardware, I need to know which two pins on the 13 pin GK carry the regular 1/4" signal. Anyone know where to find this info?

jon_bondy

I'm puzzled.  I've plugged two separate guitars into the VG-99 (one via the 1/4" jack and one via the 13-pin connector) and set up a patch so that each input was processed separately. It worked fine.

Kevin M


chipstar

Hi Jon,
I agree with you. There is a thread on this site on how to do it. It has something to with the setting that determines whether VG-99 is set to detect the GK pickup or not. I'm not at my DAW or I'd give you the setting. Best of luck.

later,
Chipstar

Brent Flash

Quote from: chipstar on August 19, 2009, 01:39:23 PM
Hi Jon,
There is a thread on this site on how to do it. It has something to with the setting that determines whether VG-99 is set to detect the GK pickup or not.
This setting is in the GK SETTINGS area and is called GK CONNECTION. The options are AUTO, OFF, or ON.

Using ON will allow you to plug a guitar into the rear GUITAR INPUT and also have a guitar plugged into the 13 pin input and use both guitars at the same time.

aliensporebomb

My understanding is if you set it to AUTO it won't let you use the analog input.  So set it to ON.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

fokof

I use my GK basses in my VB99 and also process other non-GK bass and a guitar. To do so I use a RMC Fanout box to switch between different instruments. http://www.rmcpickup.com/fanoutbox.html

The rear #7 jack is a send/return , I use that in conjonction of a A/B box to switch between GK and non GK instruments.

pwatsky

So I have the same issue. Playing live I switch guitars 10-15 times per night. Currently I unplug the 13 pin and plug in the 1/4 and vice versa.

I am somewhat confused by the thread here as to whether there is actually a way around this...using a AB switch box, or writing a patch. Since I am a techno-noob, has anyone solved the problem? If so, exactly what was your solution??

Thanks for reading.

MCK

Quote from: pwatsky on January 16, 2010, 07:25:56 AM
So I have the same issue. Playing live I switch guitars 10-15 times per night. Currently I unplug the 13 pin and plug in the 1/4 and vice versa.

I am somewhat confused by the thread here as to whether there is actually a way around this...using a AB switch box, or writing a patch. Since I am a techno-noob, has anyone solved the problem? If so, exactly what was your solution??

Thanks for reading.

Perhaps off-topic but may I ask why the need to change guitars so many times per set? Is it due to different tunings? If so check out Gibson Dark Fire or Suk tiger (if the looks don't put you off). Many people appreciate their ability to quickly change from tuning to tuning and drive VG99 at the same time as well. Perhaps an option. I might be totally off-track here of course in which case apologies where they are due. Cheers.

pwatsky

I use different guitars for different sounds, the Synth guitar for special tunings, synth sounds, etc....A real strat or real Les Paul for certain other songs. I would rather play the real thing, then a patch for certain songs. The switches are done fairly quickly. I am just not having fun plugging and unplugging the 13 pin and 1/4in so often. Hence my need for a switch box....if one exists

MCK

Got you. How about this? The following product is meant to connect 1 guitar to 2 VG99s etc but I'm thinking it should be somehow possible to make it work the otherway around. Anyone out here tried this already?

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=61&ParentId=55

Elantric

Yes - but the Roland US-20 A/B Selector does not work "backwards".

The Roland US 20 is specifically for one guitar to feed two GK 13 pin target processors , like VG-99 and a GR-55.

MCK

Thanks for sharing your insight. Can it be "persuaded" to cooperate through some solder-jockeying?

pwatsky

As I said earlier I am a technonoob....but years ago you could buy and make your own A/B switches from Radio Shack parts....IS IT possible to do that here, where the A position somehow(noob question) turns off the B plug.  Someone said somewhere else that the VG 99 senses a plug...which might mean there is no work around. I am hoping someone  has figured out whether there is any possible solution.

Also in this thread fokof mentions the RMC Fanout box....not sure what the box is supposed to do. Anyone on that? Fokof are you around???

fokof

Yep , I'M here!

Ok , the fanout box is a "multi uses" box for GK sources.
It can be used to "split" the GK signal to feed two GK processor.
You can also use it if you want to insert analogic processing to each strings Before it gets to the VG99.


I personaly use it for 3 purposes;
-pass the mag signal of my GK basses through a Tube preamp , before the VB99.
-Switch between my GK basses and non-GK basses and non-GK guitars to be processed by my VB99.
-Multi-string processing in my CPU.

The fanout would be the answer to your problem.
GTR~Fanout~VG99
Insert cable in the #7 (mono) tip to A of your A/B box , ring to the out of your A/B box , your other gtr in the B of your A/B box.
Leave everything plugged , just change patch and click A/B box.

pwatsky

Fokof...Thanks for answering, but you will have to forgive my ignorance.

Your reply:

"The fanout would be the answer to your problem."
Great News


"GTR~Fanout~VG99"
I assume that means my synth 13 pin cable from the synth guitar to fanout and another one to the VG 99. What does "ring to the out of A/B" mean?

"Insert cable in the #7 (mono) tip to A of your A/B box , ring to the out of your A/B box , your other gtr in the B of your A/B box."
I assume the 1/4 inch cable from non-synth guitar to #7 on Fanout. What does "ring to the out of A/B" mean?....Did you build a box or is there one available??? Now I'm confused, "your other guitar in the B...which one. I thought the synth was guitar to fanout to vg99


"Leave everything plugged , just change patch and click A/B box."
So, if I have everything hooked up right, change the patch, click the box and I can change to whichever guitar I have selected??? Right??


Please forgive my questions, but I am just a little confused. Thanks for understanding and helping.

fokof

Quote from: pwatsky on January 17, 2010, 05:38:57 PM
"GTR~Fanout~VG99"
I assume that means my synth 13 pin cable from the synth guitar to fanout and another one to the VG 99.

Yep , and remember that your standard pickup sound from your guitar "passes" through the 13 pin cable that goes to the VG99.
It passes in the wire #7 of the 13 wires.

Quote from: pwatsky on January 17, 2010, 05:38:57 PM"Insert cable in the #7 (mono) tip to A of your A/B box , ring to the out of your A/B box , your other gtr in the B of your A/B box."
I assume the 1/4 inch cable from non-synth guitar to #7 on Fanout. What does "ring to the out of A/B" mean?....Did you build a box or is there one available??? Now I'm confused, "your other guitar in the B...which one. I thought the synth was guitar to fanout to vg99
On the fanout box , there are 1/4" numbered 1 to 11.
The #7 jack is an "insert" for your mag pickup. From there , you can do whatever you want with the signal coming from your magnetic signal of your guitar.(standard guitar sound)
Since it is an insert , you'll need an insert cable. An insert cable is a stereo1/4" to 2 mono 1/4".
On the stereo plug , there is a "tip" (return), a "ring"(send)  and a "shield"
So you plug the stereo part in the #7 of the fanout.

To be able to switch guitars this way , you will also need an "A/B" box (guitar switcher" like this one;http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-io.htm
These things have two inputs (for two different guitars) and one output.

The two mono 1/4" from the fanout goes to the A/B box (guitar switcher), let's say in the "A" input.
So , this way , you will have the mag sound of your GK guitar in the VG99 when the switcher is @ "A"
Then plug whatever other instrument you want in the "B" of your switcher.


Quote from: pwatsky on January 17, 2010, 05:38:57 PM"Leave everything plugged , just change patch and click A/B box."
So, if I have everything hooked up right, change the patch, click the box and I can change to whichever guitar I have selected??? Right??
If everything is hooked right , you'll have the choice between your GK instrument and another non-GK instrument to be processed by the VG99. The non-GK instrument will be processed only in the FX and amp section, no COSM guitar or poly effects.
That's what the OP was asking for.
If you want to have more choice of non-GK guitar , you'll have to get a bigger switchbox.


Quote from: pwatsky on January 17, 2010, 05:38:57 PMPlease forgive my questions, but I am just a little confused. Thanks for understanding and helping.
Hope it clarifies....

Macciza

I'm nowhere near my guitar setup at the moment but I am sure this works if I understand you right . . .
I use the 1/4" jack to return a VL70 synth to the VG - and play both at the same time.
I have also had jams just through the VG unit alone - 1 VG & 1 Analog . . .
You need to set up seperate patches for what you want . . .
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

gp81

So it IS possible to run a 1/4 inch guitar input and the GK pickup at the same time while processing them separately?  I actually just returned my VG-99 to guitar center because I was under the impression that only one could work at the same time.  Event the guy at customer support at Roland told me that.  Can anyone give a detailed explanation of how to run guitar-guitar input-output to amp  AND GK pickup-GK input - output to amp both running simultaneously.  If this is possible I will go out and buy it again.  I want to run my regular guitar with some pedals in front of the guitar input and run acoustics and synth sound off of the GK pick together through a Full Range system.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: gp81 on January 26, 2010, 05:15:00 AM
So it IS possible to run a 1/4 inch guitar input and the GK pickup at the same time while processing them separately?  I actually just returned my VG-99 to guitar center because I was under the impression that only one could work at the same time.  Event the guy at customer support at Roland told me that.  Can anyone give a detailed explanation of how to run guitar-guitar input-output to amp  AND GK pickup-GK input - output to amp both running simultaneously.  If this is possible I will go out and buy it again.  I want to run my regular guitar with some pedals in front of the guitar input and run acoustics and synth sound off of the GK pick together through a Full Range system.


That's what Frank Gambale was talking about in his interview on the RolandChannel on Youtube.  The key is:
you need to program your patches to run this thru, it doesn't do this by default.

It's like having a car radio with no station presets setup, you'll have to set them up yourself to do that.

I came up with a slightly different way to handle this:  I run my standard guitar rig alongside the VG and then
run the VG's MIDI out to a bank of softsynths and I can do this kind of thing live:



That's all live, submixed to two tracks in stereo.  I could play live gigs and sound exactly like that.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

QuoteSo it IS possible to run a 1/4 inch guitar input and the GK pickup at the same time

Correct!


You must program this yourself

Its explained here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,13.0.html

* How to mix GK + Normal PU sounds with the VG-99

Press the "Modeling Type" switch on the VG99 then go to Page 6 and
there's two knobs for mixing the "COSM Gtr" and "Normal PU" sound. By
default the "Normal PU"(1/4" Input) sound is zero so you have to write the patch
if you edit it (obviously). Since it's possible to be using two
Modeling Types at the same time (A and B) then each has it's own mix
control.


And Be sure to use the User patch area 001-200

mos6507

The important thing to remember is that the VG-99 only has 7 audio inputs.  The 6 polyphonic inputs and one "normal pickup" input.  That normal pickup input is sourced from either the GK cable OR the 1/4 jack, but not both at the same time.  You can not, for instance, have the A channel process the normal pickup from the GK and the B channel process the normal pickup from the 1/4" in the same patch.  I wish you could, because then you could, let's say, process the mono piezo signal on one channel and the mag on another for piezo pickup users.  As it is now, you would either have to sum the two first, or process them separately from the VG.

In my experience with the VG-99, the system really discourages you from using your mono pickups.  The pitch shifting makes it difficult to blend the normal pickup in since the COSM will be shifted and the normal pickup won't.  That part is unavoidable.  But also, the normal pickup is fixed as the first item in the FX chain.  So you can move the COSM but you can't move the normal pickup.

Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

mos6507

Quote from: jon_bondy on August 19, 2009, 12:25:56 PM
I'm puzzled.  I've plugged two separate guitars into the VG-99 (one via the 1/4" jack and one via the 13-pin connector) and set up a patch so that each input was processed separately. It worked fine.


What you probably did was fool the VG-99 into disabling pin 7 on the GK and taking the "normal pickup" signal from the 1/4".  You can't independently process pin 7 and the 1/4".  It's either-or.  There is only a single signal path.  So if you have a patch where one channel is GK+normal and the other channel is normal-pickup only, the normal-pickup on BOTH channels is coming from the 1/4".  If you want to treat each channel like independent stomp boxes for two different guitars you have to roll the normal-pickup level down to 0 on the GK channel.


Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

Kebbel

Before I ever saw this thread, I had been using CTRL1 and CTRL2 buttons to switch the COSM Guitar Mix Level from 100 to 0 on COSM guitarS while simultaneously switching NORMAL PUs from 0 to 100.  Worked for me.

Kebbel