FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay

Started by utensil, April 21, 2013, 01:29:52 PM

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CodeSmart

Quote from: drbill on January 14, 2016, 09:03:47 PM
This is a 6-channel pot in an IC, no?

http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM125/CL935/SC913/PF74850

Yes it is. Unfortunately it doesn't run dual rail on +/- 7 V
Looks like it only allow positive supply. You need caps on all inputs and outputs.
You need at least 10V supply as GK is pretty high voltage. With lover powering voltage, inputs may get clipped.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

susbemol

I finished building mine and it is all working really well so far. :) Thanks again, CodeSmart and the others for the help.

I've written a blog entry with more details here: http://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor


utensil

Hey this looks great, how are you powering the preamp , I don't see any batteries? Or are you using another GK device simultaneously?

susbemol

Yeah, I'm using one of CodeSmart's nifty boxes to split the signal from the guitar between a GP-10, a GI-20 and now the TriplePlay.

The preamp gets powered by the first unit connected to the box, in my case that's the GP-10.

drbill

GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

drbill

Quote from: CodeSmart on January 15, 2016, 05:46:36 AM
Yes it is. Unfortunately it doesn't run dual rail on +/- 7 V
Looks like it only allow positive supply. You need caps on all inputs and outputs.
You need at least 10V supply as GK is pretty high voltage. With lover powering voltage, inputs may get clipped.

The caps aren't so much a problem as the voltage. I would want something that runs on either a USB or GK supply voltage.  :(

Too bad, because this looks pretty easy to integrate.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Elantric

#131
QuoteThe caps aren't so much a problem as the voltage. I would want something that runs on either a USB or GK supply voltage.


FWIW - I have designed gear with digipot IC's that can adjust analog signals that swing +7V to -7V  - yet they are powered by a single 5VDC voltage rail and can be interfaced  with 3.3V logic - Intersil and Exar supply these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intersil/X9C103SIZ/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuD%2f7PTYBwKqSpQl7USA1PmmCjNJBjODzg%3d

Intersil X9C103 is the 10K version
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/x9c102-103-104-503-555255.pdf

or

Intersil# X9C303S8Z
http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/x9c3/x9c303.pdf

alancarl

Quote from: CodeSmart on January 02, 2016, 04:55:19 PM
I wonder if they are needed at all....the GK-3 will swing the hex voltages around +/- 0V, with virtually no DC offset. If,...of some reason needed, probably 470nF -> 4.7uF (plastic film or bipolar electrolytic cap) is ok enough for guitar frequencies when input impedance > 50K ohms.

Hi everybody,
      I am wanting to try to drive my FTP and RR Strat from the RR hex pickup...
Do I need to worry about DC offsets and blocking caps when I am just y'ing the internal hex pup's outputs to both preamps inputs?
This was suggested very early on in this thread but as many people wanted to be able to grab the hex audio signal After the 13 pin GK preamping, the majority of the discussion was around this method.
Thanks,
Al

Elantric

#133
The reports are a simple Y cable works  - no DC blocking capacitors needed

this is often the case for me and my busy schedule - I often brainstorm here on the forum, but someone else takes the lead and actually connects the hardware and reports back their findings

Read this thread
FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0
Quote
Re: FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 08:56:48 AM »
ReplyQuoteModifyModifyRemoveRemoveSplit TopicSplit Topic
it works  this is too cool you can plug a a gk-3 wort board straight into a fishman triple play oem and share the fishman pickup between the the roland and the ftp how cool is that i had a 4 inch long male to male 8 pin plug cable from a g5 pickguard that i bought with pickup and wiring that was too easy

alancarl

Thanks Steve,
       I did find the strat FTP GK thread that you pointed out right after I posted my question.
The FTP strat looks pretty cool--a mirror image of what I did to my RR strat awhile ago...I just haven't fired up both systems simultaneously...I just wanted a strat with the FTP and the first gen FTP pickup wasn't going to cooperate for me in this so...
I'm looking for a good deal on a FTP strat so the GAS continues!
Thanks again Steve,
Al

CodeSmart

Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?

Q-Will it be possible to close the FTP enclosure? I opened up the FTP and its a bit tight in there :o
Q-Has anyone fed attenuated Piezo into the FTP?
Q-It would be great if it's possible to hack the FTP volume so it can be controlled by the GK VOL 0-5V signal. Anyone done that?

Probably add two regulators to create proper +/-7V from an optional 12VDC adapter (9VDC will not be enough) in case GK OUT is unconnected + the 6 six attenuation pots as outlined in this thread.

GK IN
GK THRU
GK FTP ( or 8-cable JST wire set).
6 pots
12VDC connector
12V->7V regulator
12V->-7V regulator
4 Schottky diodes
A few caps and a few resistors for regulators to give noise free DC at desired voltage.

We'll see...time is rare.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumbo

Quote from: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?



Certainly...let's talk!   ;D


Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

utensil

Hey I've initially setup my adapter so the gk side is connected to the center pins of the trim pots,(like everyone else it appears) would it be exactly the same if I had put the FTP side on the center pin instead?

Elantric

QuoteHey I've initially setup my adapter so the gk side is connected to the center pins of the trim pots,(like everyone else it appears)

You should be connecting the Potentiometer's  center pin (Potentiometer "Wiper" Pin#2) to the Output side - sending signal to the FTP Control board hex PU connector destination 



utensil

Yes this is what I think just occurred to me when I have been working on a new adapter as I intend to share it with my GP 10. Looking at most of the posted pics of everyones DIY and my own first adapter I think we've done it the other way.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?

Q-Will it be possible to close the FTP enclosure? I opened up the FTP and its a bit tight in there :o
Q-Has anyone fed attenuated Piezo into the FTP?
Q-It would be great if it's possible to hack the FTP volume so it can be controlled by the GK VOL 0-5V signal. Anyone done that?

Probably add two regulators to create proper +/-7V from an optional 12VDC adapter (9VDC will not be enough) in case GK OUT is unconnected + the 6 six attenuation pots as outlined in this thread.

GK IN
GK THRU
GK FTP ( or 8-cable JST wire set).
6 pots
12VDC connector
12V->7V regulator
12V->-7V regulator
4 Schottky diodes
A few caps and a few resistors for regulators to give noise free DC at desired voltage.

We'll see...time is rare.

How about interfacing directly with an FC-1?  If you are running a GK cable from the guitar anyway it would seem superfluous to have a wireless FTP connection, right?  How about a straight USB connection from the FTP board?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

BurninBen

I'm thinking about getting a Godin Montreal Premier TP & FC-1.  Anyone know if I can connect the FC-1 to my GR-55?  Or if not, can I use a different controller instead of or in addition to the FC-1?  I'd like to have a few more foot switches, expression pedals, but most importantly the ability to tweak sounds on stage without bringing a computer.

Marin

Hi!

This thread is very interesting to me because I own Godin Multiac Nylon SA and Roland GR55, but I'm not really happy with Roland, especially considering comparisons with FTP, which to me seems as much better solution for guitar-to-MIDI.
At first, I thought that I don't have any choice except to stick with Roland, but this thread has opened my eyes for new possibilites!  ;D

But! After reading all posts in this thread, apart from seeing that a few of you that really made this GK13->FTP adapter are happy with it, I haven't really seen any concrete info how this new systems behaves? Ofcourse, maybe I have skipped some posts, if so, please point me to them. Especially if someone has made video!

The most important thing for me to know is what difference in tracking performance do you notice?
For instance, I'm a bit disappointed in results with my Godin - Roland combination regarding lower two strings (especially low E).
I'm unable to pluck low E in faster tempos (eighth notes at 100bpm) without having problems with tracking.

If I do this kind of adapter to FTP, will tracking results improve, or will it be the same?

Thank you very much!


utensil

I don't have any noticeable difference in performance between a regular ftp setup on a strat vs the ftp via 13 pin adapter on my godin multiac grand concert, both work equally well.

In addition , IMO any of the ftp options above are substantially better for triggering midi in comparison to the Roland gr55 and slightly better than the GP10 . The difference becomes more apparent on the lower 2 strings.  I.e yes the ftp should perform far better than the gr-55 which you will find confirmed in many places on this forum

Marin

Since some of you have connected GK-3 directly to FTP and results are good, I wonder would it be possible to also connect GK-3B directly?
I know that guitar and bass are in different frequency range and that FTP is optimized for guitar, but still, could it work?
Has anyone tried that?

Elantric

FTP is not going to track Low bass notes  - it has a non user accessible input frequency cutoff filter

GR-55 remains an option for bass Players

chlorinemist

This is a cool idea. I wonder how my FTP would behave when driven by my Cycfi Nu. I could install a second 13 pin out into my nexus to feed the FTP and keep them rack mounted on a sliding shelf.

Quote from: Elantric on December 09, 2016, 08:47:27 AM
FTP is not going to track Low bass notes  - it has a non user accessible input frequency cutoff filter

GR-55 remains an option for bass Players

Thats disappointing to hear! I was planning to use it with my Bass VI to control the envelopes on my 6Appeal. Maybe now I really do need a Roland unit. Do they all do Midi mono mode? Is the GR-55's midi tracking noticeably better than, say, the GR-33? For my purposes triggering correct notes aren't necessarily a major concern. Acceptably low latency note on/off messages are what i'm primarily looking for.

Elantric

If your goal is using a bass to drive a roland GR Synth your only options are GR 55 in bass mode or GR 20 with updated firmware in bass mode

that's it

Or for VBass units (COSM MODELING /HRM Syth) get a VB-99 or VBass

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 09:04:11 AM
This is a cool idea. I wonder how my FTP would behave when driven by my Cycfi Nu. I could install a second 13 pin out into my nexus to feed the FTP and keep them rack mounted on a sliding shelf.

Thats disappointing to hear! I was planning to use it with my Bass VI to control the envelopes on my 6Appeal. Maybe now I really do need a Roland unit. Do they all do Midi mono mode? Is the GR-55's midi tracking noticeably better than, say, the GR-33? For my purposes triggering correct notes aren't necessarily a major concern. Acceptably low latency note on/off messages are what i'm primarily looking for.

A simple envelope follower with trigger and gate outputs is all you need.  Check out the Eurorack modular synth sites; here is the one I got:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chlorinemist

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
A simple envelope follower with trigger and gate outputs is all you need.  Check out the Eurorack modular synth sites; here is the one I got:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html

Interesting! I was just looking at eurorack stuff, toying with building rack with enough resonant filters to process 8 pickups at 2 different points in the signal chain. Ended up with this so far:


Would it really be as simple as you describe though? I'd think in order to utilize cv envelope triggers and gates to control the 6Appeal's envelope function I would need 6 envelope followers, a CV->MIDI interface and use software to translate the triggers and gates into note on/off data and send each module to a seperate midi channel. In theory that should be possible but I imagine this would be a much more complicated method to achieve something that might be done better and cheaper with a GR55. I have zero real world experience with modular and CV based gear though so if I'm totally wrong I'd love to be enlightened