Tripleplay won't sustain long before cutting out

Started by swasyliw82, June 05, 2017, 02:26:03 PM

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swasyliw82

Hi all, no matter what my sensitivity settings my tripleplay will only sustain for a few seconds before cutting out as if the strings had stopped vibrating. It does this on all strings (although bottom E sustains much better than others) and no matter what the sensitivity settings.  I'll strum a chord, the pickup level meter will be halfway then suddenly it cuts out despite the guitar strings still ringing out. Never had this problem on my gk3/roland setup.

Do I have a defective pickup, is there some setting I can change or is this just the way it is?

Thanks in advance.

admin

#1
What type guitar?
What type strings?
post pics

could be an improperly installed FTP pickup too far away from the strings

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/TriplePlay-Install-Guide.pdf

swasyliw82

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The guitar it's supposed to be on is an Ovation electro-acoustic. It has an electric width neck so the pickups line up pretty much nicely below the strings and I've adjusted pickup angle, height (moving closer and further away than the recommended 1mm checked with the tool) and distance to bridge. I originally tried it with the standard bronze strings that were on the guitar and have replaced with ghs white bronze which are for this purpose. The string sensitivity and accuracy of tracking has improved but the sound/signal still cuts out after only a few seconds, even if it's showing as an almost full signal after a heavy strum. I would expect it to fade away as the string does (or sustain and stop depending on synth settings). This is what my old GK3/Roland setup used to do and the RMC system on the Godin does.

I have tried it on my Godin electric to the same effect. Sorry, can't post pictures right now.

Elantric

#3
QuoteI originally tried it with the standard bronze strings that were on the guitar and have replaced with ghs white bronze which are for this purpose.

I suggest the bronze strings are the culprit ( yes  even the "white bronze" type:
http://www.ghsstrings.com/products/11234-white-bronze
-none will function with magnetic pickups as well as nickel steel strings 

try restring the guitar with nickel steel strings in the gauge you prefer
QuoteI have tried it on my Godin electric to the same effect. Sorry, can't post pictures right now.

FTP on my Godin xTSA is my favorite FTP guitar strung with Fender Bullet 10-52 3250RH strings

I get loooong sustain
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8394.0

swasyliw82

I'll buy me some jazz strings and give it a try!

The GHS white bronze are advertised as magnetically sensitive and are recommended by Fishman (also the Godin has nickel plated steel and it did the same on that guitar).

Snap on the xtsa, except I've changed my pups over and added a coil tap switch. It's the most versatile gigging guitar I've ever owned by some margin!

Cheers.

Elantric

hex mag pickups on an acoustic guitar can be hit & miss.

I do not recommend it 

swasyliw82

The GK-3 tracked and sustained perfectly on the same guitar, and that was with normal bronze strings.

As I've said, I have also tried the FTP on my Godin xtsa electric and found the same thing with the sudden dropout of the signal after a few seconds. I understand these devices don't often play nice with acoustics, but as I had no problem with the GK3 (which I may need to go back to and just accept being hard-wired!) I expected to have no problem with the FTP, which I believe is the exact same principle (unless I'm wrong)?

Regards


swasyliw82

Hi, haven't been able to solve problem yet. No reply from Fishman (despite a promise to answer within a day). Different strings and different guitars make no difference. Doesn't seem to be related to sensitivity either and changing settings and adjusting installed position from the recommended yields no favourable results either.

I've watched a few YouTube videos of the ftp and whilst it always tracks well (technique allowing!) I have yet to see a video of someone ringing out some chords rather than playing relatively quick changing chords and damping off the last. I'm not convinced it does sense the sustain of the strings as well as the gk3.

If someone fancies making a video to demonstrate how long it can sustain / hold a chord before dropping out I would be interested to see!

Still looking for the answer.

FishmanSQA

#9
Quote from: swasyliw82 on June 11, 2017, 01:50:58 PM
Hi, haven't been able to solve problem yet. No reply from Fishman (despite a promise to answer within a day). Different strings and different guitars make no difference. Doesn't seem to be related to sensitivity either and changing settings and adjusting installed position from the recommended yields no favourable results either.

I've watched a few YouTube videos of the ftp and whilst it always tracks well (technique allowing!) I have yet to see a video of someone ringing out some chords rather than playing relatively quick changing chords and damping off the last. I'm not convinced it does sense the sustain of the strings as well as the gk3.

If someone fancies making a video to demonstrate how long it can sustain / hold a chord before dropping out I would be interested to see!

Still looking for the answer.

Hi there-
I looked into this a bit...If things are making a note and then shutting off:

1) Make sure you are using factory patches in standalone.  If you are recording, the issue is likely that you have to turn off TP Control (Port 2) as instructed for many DAW.
2) Make sure you are getting substantial (into the red or nearly red) string output showing in the TP standalone product.  If you aren't, you need to get the pickup much closer to the strings.
3) Downgrade firmware to 1.2 (by installing 1.2) and reupdate to 1.4.106

Give this a shot!
Best,
Sara

swasyliw82

Hi, thanks for your suggestions. I am using the stand alone and in Ableton and have tried the factory presets and Omnisphere / Philharmonik (which is what I bought the ftp it to use with) and all with the same problem of lack k of sustain. As already advised, I have tried with different strings, both the recommended setup and numerous other   interpretations of the installation and have also tried another guitar. I can max out the sensitivity giving a red meter on every string and with little effort, but the problem remains that it will only sustain for a few seconds before dropping out. It can go from red to nothing with no fade out at all on the sensitivity meter. If I can I will make a video to show my problem.

The only thing I haven't tried is downgrading the firmware. Will try that asap. Thanks.

Elantric

#11
An acoustic guitar with an FTP and "White bronze" strings is not going to sustain very well frankly

Unless you have a Piezo pick up and you could feed that to an amplifier and play in close proximity to an amplified  speaker and induce a feedback loop mechanically to promote string sustain

swasyliw82

Thanks for your reply, but is there any reason why?

My gk3 which the ftp replaced worked much better in this regard, even with bog standard bronze strings. The ftp doesn't seem to sense the sustain well on my Godin electric either, which I have also tried it with. I have used gk3 and RMC on the godin and not had this problem before so am now presuming I either have a faulty unit or the ftp pickup just isn't as good at string sensing as the other two for guitar-midi.

Elantric

I have an FTP on my Godin xTSA and it sustains wonderfully , equal to a GK3
Several folks here have similar setup with a Godin xTSA with FTP

shawnb

"Long" and "short" are unfortunately subjective.   Are you saying it always cuts out in 2 sec?   Putting a number to it will help.

If it's unusually short, I'd look at everything...   Action that is too low/fret interference will do that.  I'd also look at bridge and nut condition.  Dirt / oxidization may not affect sound quality too much, but may interfere with pitch detection.

Try cleaning everything...

Please share distance from ftp pu to strings.   And distance from pu to bridge.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

I understand  swasyliw82's Fishman TriplePlay is mounted on a guitar like this with Bronze Strings


Ovation electro-acoustic.

swasyliw82

Thanks for all the suggestions, that is the guitar it's currently (and I want it) on. The strings are white bronze ghs, recommended by fishman for being "magnetically active".

The action is definitely not too low (i thought this initially so added the ovation bridge shims back in to raise it). Currently the string height is pretty much bang on 1mm for most strings, using the fishman little guitar shaped gadget.

I intend to make a video and will post pictures when get a chance. Thanks for all the continued effort to get me going, you guys are awesome!

swasyliw82



Finally got around to doing this. Have downgraded the firmware and then upgraded it again. Have reinstalled the software. Does no one else have this problem? Can anyone make a video to demonstrate the sustain? That would be much appreciated, otherwise I think it's time to return to shop and stay tethered to the gr55 as this works perfectly. Thanks again.

Smash

#18
Looks like a velocity problem - one of the things I've noticed about the FTP is that to trigger notes I need to get above a certain threshold before I'll get any decent level - it's a bit like the knee on a compressor. i'm guessing it's like that to clean up tracking and prevent ghosts etc. but it does make it far more difficult to use on an acoustic playing fingerstyle.

I have the FTP on a Variax acoustic with Maxima Gold Custom Light strings - I'm running in Hardware mode with the velocity cranked to the max in the FTP software and set to finger pick rather than pleck.

Even then I still need to get extra velocity help using MIDIflow - it's really inconsistent. My recommendation is have a play with the Velocity and offset sliders in the FTP program

I've yet to nail the settings for FTP on the guitar a problem which is made all the more difficult having to connect to PC to adjust velocity and offset with the FTP program then going back to iPad to see how it translate to iOS apps.

*HINT* can we PLEASE, finally, have an iOS app (or maybe even a response about it)!!!!

steadystate

#19
I am having the same problem.  The FTP will send a note off message around three seconds after initial attack.  I am monitoring the output with MIDIOX.

The meters are hitting red on strong attack.  The pickup is properly installed and the correct distance from the strings.  I am using a Kiesel Vader with steel strings.  This guitar has incredible sustain on its own.

I've tried adjusting every parameter without success.  Nothing will enable the system to have usable sustain.  I will attempt to downgrade/upgrade the firmware, but I am not optimistic.

admin


steadystate


admin

#22
Try different Touch  & Dynamics sensitivity settings


steadystate

#23
I've tried every sensitivity setting.  I've set the parameters such that sensitivity to picking is maximized (at the expense of glitches).  I've tried standalone, plugin, factory patches, pickup distance, different guitars, you name it.  It is my belief that some units simply won't hold the note for more than three or four seconds before a note off is sent.  The only thing I haven't tried is downgrade/upgrade firmware and trying a different unit.

At first, I assumed that there simply isn't enough magnetic energy (string movement) that close to the bridge.  But if others are getting long sustain, then this clearly isn't the case.  I also have MIDI Guitar 2, and it sustains forever.

Smash

A lot of people really rate MG2 on Mac/PC - wondering why you're wanting to use FTP over that?