GR-55 - Sound of normal guitar is heard thru L or R Output jack

Started by Skysearcher, October 31, 2013, 07:29:28 AM

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Skysearcher

Hi all, this is my first post here, so please be gentle ;-)

I recently bought a GR-55. I use it on my bass guitar. I owned a GR-20 before this.
My problem is the following:

When i am playing live on stage i want to hear my normal bass sound, unaltered.
When ready to play the GR-55 i want to push a pedal and use the synth sound.

But, i can't figure it out, because the patch sound is always on. Do i need a normal pu patch or something
and switch between the normal sound and the synth sound?

I activated the guitar position switch but that is not working with every patch and when it is working
i still can't get it to work properly.

With a normal stomp box i can switch the fx on and off....how do I do this with the GR-55??  :'(

Cheers,

Ron

Elantric

Read GR55 FAQ
and How to enable Normal PU sound.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0


This same question is asked every 4 days

Skysearcher

Hi Elantric,

I do know how to enable the normal pu in the settings. Thats what i said.
But the problem remains. It does not work with every patch and when it does
i still get all kinds of fx on the normal pu i don't want.

Elantric

Must read entire thread.

Every GR55 patch you intend to have instant access to Normal PU must be edited and saved-one by one.
This is Not a Global Setting.


* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0

Jim Williams

The reason for the switch working in some patches and in not in others is the assign of the GK3 knob on your guitar. If it is not assigned to a PCM the 3 way switch will not work. and you can assign the on and off status of any of the 4 sources to the CTL pedal. An in-depth article on Control assigns is on this site in a PDF format and spending some time reading some of the other PDF documents on this site might give you a better understanding of the GR-55. It is a pretty big learning curve but once you get some of the tricks down it is pretty straight forward.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Skysearcher

thanks Jim i will look into it!

*Elantric, like i said i do know how to setup the normal pu and i do know i have to enable it for every patch.

Elantric

QuoteBut, i can't figure it out, because the patch sound is always on. Do i need a normal pu patch or something
and switch between the normal sound and the synth sound?

The current Roland Corp policy is disabling the use and functionality of the "old school" GK-3 Three way Guitar /Mix/Synth" switch on all new Gk13 pin products (Dumb decision IMHO) - They do this for the same reason they  omitted installing a normal 1/4" Instrument Input Jack on GR-55 - they want to promote more sales of the GK-3 hex PU.

Since inside the GR-55 is a perfectly suitable DSP for real time Roland COSM Amp /FX simulation just like a Boss GT-100  / ME-50 - they did not want to kill sales of those products with every GR-55 sale, so they  omitted installing a normal 1/4" Instrument Input Jack on GR-55

(Here's how to install your own  normal 1/4" Instrument Input Jack on GR-55)
  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3994.msg27011#msg27011

This thread explains how to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55 on every User patch (sadly only 3 factory patches have Normal PU Input working - and those cant be edited!)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0

But remember the GR-55 does not have a "True Bypass" circuit, the above strategy assumes you enjoy using the GR-55's DSP for real time Roland COSM Amp /FX simulation.

But most GR-55 owners with ears who desire the most flexibility run both a 1/4" cable to a Volume pedal and their normal Amp Rig , and another Roland GK 13 pin  cable to the GR-55. Use  a separate Volume pedal and GR-55 Expression pedal to Control the Mix of Normal PU & Amp tone or GR-55 Synth Tone.
   

supernicd

This may sound odd, but when I saw this post today, I was reminded that this 3-way selector on the GK-3 existed.  Despite the fact that I use the 55/GK-3 almost every day, I had just plain forgotten about it because I never use it. I tend to control the inclusion or exclusion of the normal p/u (and any other internal sound source) with other controllers (expression or ctrl) or just patch by patch and this 3-way toggle is always set to mix for me.  I control the normal p/u's volume with the guitar's volume knob and also use this to include or exclude from the signal chain.

So depending on usage, I guess you could just set to mix and ignore this toggle switch and set up your patches to work without it. That's what I've been doing.   I guess what got me started on this is that for patches that include more than one sound source to be used at different times, my use case was more that I wanted to gradually fade another sound in rather than bring it in abruptly most of the time (like the toggle switch would).

Too bad there's no way to assign the 3 way selector to control some other parameter (there's not is there?). It'd make a great COSM guitar pickup selector.

Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

Myself - I prefer having a functional guitar mounted 3 way Guitar/Mix/Synth switch . When i used my VG-8 and GR-30 , if I had a failure at the live gig, I used the 3 way Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch as my "take me out of Roland Synth world" panic switch. Switch it to "Guitar Only" and finish the gig. I'm still a straight up guitarist 90% of the time - I ALWAYS view the Roland COSM/Synth tones as "icing" but not crucial for my needs.  This helped me a lot as both those old 1990's Roland devices (VG-8 and GR-30) were more focused on providing a working "analog bypass" signal flow chain by providing a functional low noise "Dry Normal PU Guitar Out" jack (before all A/D Conversion  - enabled by the 3 way Guitar/Mix/Synth switch ),  to have normal pickups feed typical analog stomp boxes / external Instrument FX / Tube Amps - while the Roland Virtual Guitars/Amps/Synth  could feed a PA.

But I know many here rely on the the GK3 PU (or equivalent) for their "whole enchilada" for all tones at all gigs. To each their own .

Skysearcher

Thanks everybody for the tips, i am going to do the input jack mod on this baby for sure!  ;)

imerkat

you can also install the FX loop mod and not route the Normal pickups back in. I believed this way it will function as originally intended.

Toby Krebs

I don't use the switch. Never have except for about a month when I got my first GR-1 20 years ago. Quickly realized it doesn't work well for my own purposes and the effect loop/GR55 mod makes it very easy to get out of "Roland VG/GR world" because you are always connected to the GR55 with your own mag pickups on your guitar.

If6was9

Hello everyone, I'm new here.
So glad to be a member of this great and helpful community.

Just bought a GR55GK and I have one, pretty straight question concerning the GK-3 pickup.
I know that this topic's been already discussed in many ways, but I just don't seem to understand if there's something I'm missing or if my GK-3 has some issues.
Now the question is:
is it normal that when I put the GK-3 selector on the "Guitar" position I don't get no sound at all? Even after disabling PCM1, PCM2, MODELING and enabling NORMAL PICKUP only?
For instance, on the "FOR NORMAL PU" patches, should I get just the normal pickup sound  moving the selector on the "Guitar" position? I don't get no sound at all.

Please be patient...

Thanks in advance.

Elantric

All you describe is true

To make Normal guitar position work on GK3 read the link supplied here.
GR-55 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0

Elantric

* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0

If6was9

Hi Elantric and thanks for your quick reply.
I followed step by step the procedures described in the links you suggested, but I don't seem to get always the same result :-\. For example, at one point - with the GK-3 switch on the "Guitar" position - I had the synths sound coming from the L-R outputs along with the guitar sound. Now, I don't seem to understand if this is correct...
Even so, the only way I can fully take advantage of the "three way switch" is to use the "Guitar Out" jack, which is the right solution for me. So, as far as I'm concerned...
...problem solved!  :)

Thanks again.

Fusion

Far as I know, as I run my normal pickups independently, the "guitar" position on the GK3 is still the synth voicing on COSM section. If the patch in question does not have a COSM guitar voice, nothing will be there. Normal guitar is controlled by two things, the guitars volume control and if you have the "normal pickups" section on the patch on. You will probably want this at full volume level. The sound of the normal pickups goes out the stereo outs on the snyth and or the guitar out jack.
Since I run a populated pedalboard for my std guitar arsenal, I run a std guitar cable off my guitar and bypass the synth completely. I run two separate rigs for the guitar and the synth. If you want to use the COSM modeling and feed that to your amp that has its advantages as well. I was trying to use the guitar out feed but it did not seem to be an untreated or unbuffered signal for my rig chain.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

Actually the "Guitar" position on GK guitars is the Normal pickup signal path fed down the 13 pin cable on pin #7 and emerging from the "Guitar Out" jack on the GK processor to feed your Guitar Amp.

This always worked straight out of the box with older GR-09, GR -30, GR-20,GR-33, VG-8, VG-88. For all factory presets.

Its a chore on GR-55, VG-99

Fusion

Right again. Been a while since I had mine rigged that way. Guitar is guitar plus the guitar volume knob. Not sure how that relates to the Normal Guitar toggle in the editor maybe the guitar out, have to drag out the manual as I am not using it.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

Must read and follow the instructions to enable the Normal Guitar on GR55

* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0

Magiamusical

You can also assign the normal input volume range to the Ctl switch, assign also to the CTL the inverse range to the synth so everytime you engage the switch you went from normal guitar to synth and from synth to normal guitar

that's the way I do it instead of using the GK 3 way switch.



Godin LGXT, Les Paul Studio w/GK3, JTV89F w/GK3, GR-55

Fusion

I do not find it useful for me to route my guitar through the 55. I prefer to run a separate std cable to my pedalboard and guitar rig. Having two separate independent rigs is doing the deal for me. I kick on a 55 COSM thing at times but it stays in the synth rig. Mainly I dig the bass tones, 12 string, and some of the synth modeling Analog GR is nice. Do not need most of the high gain amp stuff as my std guitar rig ranges about anything.

The low impedance buffer out from the GR55 is a deal kill for me, problematic for running it into other pedals and having too many buffers in a chain can actually create noise issues and befuddle dynamics. I just run the std guitar cable and stay tie the two together. I suppose if one installed that loop mod you might get around the buffer but it may be buffered as well, have not really dug into it much. Not in a hurry to smoke my warranty as well.

Seems like they could have done a lot more to improve the normal guitar via perhaps a switchable buffer and a nice stereo loop would have been most insightful.
I cannot see the purpose of what they did as who runs the guitar out right into an amp w no pedals and whatnot? If I want a buffer in my chain I like to pick where it is and first up is not always good. Feed that into an old style fuzz circuit and crap is in order. I do not use fuzz but some pedals are not the same with a buffer in front. Say you just want to use one pedal like a Klon into your amp, you do not really want a buffer running into the Klon as it already has a good buffer. 
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

rumrill

#22
I have a routing problem. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.
I'm running a GK-3 equipped guitar into a GR-55 and then into a Line 6 Pod HD500x, and out to a Line 6 Stagesource L2m full-range powered speaker. I'm using separate inputs on the Pod (Guitar In & Aux In, respectively) for the normal guitar pickups & the synth (PCM) sounds of the GR-55.Pod.
So far, so good. Problem is, even though Guitar Out from GR55 is running into Guitar In on Pod, and L/Mono Output from GR55 is running into Aux In on Pod, and these 2 signals are assigned to Path A & Path B respectively in the Pod (Input 1 source is Guitar, Input 2 source is Aux), there is guitar signal coming into the Pod from the L/Mono Output of the GR55!  HOW DO I MAKE SURE THAT THE L/MONO OUTPUT CARRIES NO NORMAL PICKUP GUITAR SIGNAL? I WANT IT TO BE ONLY PCM1/2 AND/OR MODEL, AND FOR THE GUITAR OUT JACK TO BE ONLY NORMAL PICKUP GUITAR.
I hope I have explained this well enough. I'd be grateful for any suggestions. . .

admin

QuoteHOW DO I MAKE SURE THAT THE L/MONO OUTPUT CARRIES NO NORMAL PICKUP GUITAR SIGNAL? I WANT IT TO BE ONLY PCM1/2 AND/OR MODEL, AND FOR THE GUITAR OUT JACK TO BE ONLY NORMAL PICKUP GUITAR.

Turn off "Normal Pickup" here:


rumrill

Thanks for quick reply. I do not want to change the PCM Tone, and the on/off box for Normal Pickup is already ON.