Internal GK-KIT-GT3 kit install?

Started by Kurtatwork, January 14, 2013, 10:50:00 AM

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datsunrobbie

If the mag pickups are not wired to the GK-KIT, won't the G/M/S switch just become an on/off toggle for the synth? I know the guitar setting sends mag pickup signal through the GK connector, but I don't remember if switching to synth actually turns off the 1/4" output. I thought the 1/4" was always on, but I usually only run the 13-pin cable. It seems like the switching jack Elantric suggested would take care of the issue with the GK circuit coloring the 1/4" output (thanks for that tip, now I have to open mine up and break out the soldering iron).

Elantric

#26
QuoteIf the mag pickups are not wired to the GK-KIT, won't the G/M/S switch just become an on/off toggle for the synth?

Correct!

QuoteI thought the 1/4" was always on,

It is, yet if you follow the "official" GK-KIT-GT3" installation manual, thats when you hear the loss of highs on the 1/4" jack when the switch is in the "Mix " position.

This is the the GK-Kit -GT-3 Circuit:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6661
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com


The Fender Roland Ready Strats and GC-1 do NOT follow the GK-KIT-GT3" installation circuit shown above - electing to use a "GK Bypass" 1/4" switching jack that completely removes the Normal Guitar audio path from the GK Circuit anytime a 1/4" cord is inserted into the Normal Guitar output jack - as described here:


Fender-Roland GC-1 GK-Ready Stratocaster question
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5173.msg83658#msg83658


All known Schematics are in this thread

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0

And understand that the GC-1's 1/4" output jack is a unique switching jack - The goal is to have a "stock Strat" when using the 1/4" output jack  - so anytime you insert a 1/4" plug into the GC-1's 1/4" "Normal PU Output"  jack  - this isolates removes the normal passive Strat Electronics signal output from entering into the GK Internal active buffer (which might load down the passive PU's and reduce high frequencies) and removes the ability to send normal mag PU tone down Pin #7 of the 13 pin Cable

QuoteAnyhow the reason for my post is that I had not played for a couple of weeks and this evening when I plugged the guitar in the magnetic pickups on the Strat were much quieter, almost inaudible, when using the 13 pin GK cable, synth/modelling sounds are fine. If I plug the Strat into the GP-10 with a standard 1/4 inch cable the magnetic pickups are fine, normal volume.

datsunrobbie

If I understand correctly, when I wire up the "GK bypass" output jack, with mag pickups connected, the G/M/S switch will have no effect on the 1/4" jack, only the 13-pin. If I don't have the 1/4" plugged in the G/M/S switch works as normal, allowing a mix of signal to be passed on through the 13-pin jack. But if I plug a cable in the 1/4" jack the G/M/S switch becomes an on/off toggle for the synth, because the jack bypasses the GK circuit.

Thanks for your patience, I know I really should sit down with my guitar and check all this out, but the guitar is not here and I'm really curious about exactly how the output jack alters the working of the other pieces of the puzzle.

Elantric

Yes - all this is correct!
QuoteIf I understand correctly, when I wire up the "GK bypass" output jack, with mag pickups connected, the G/M/S switch will have no effect on the 1/4" jack, only the 13-pin. If I don't have the 1/4" plugged in the G/M/S switch works as normal, allowing a mix of signal to be passed on through the 13-pin jack. But if I plug a cable in the 1/4" jack the G/M/S switch becomes an on/off toggle for the synth, because the jack bypasses the GK circuit.

Enticing_Scarab

#29
Quote from:  Elantric on August 08, 2013, 10:03:59 AM
Correct!

It is, yet if you follow the "official" GK-KIT-GT3" installation manual, thats when you hear the loss of highs on the 1/4" jack when the switch is in the "Mix " position.

This is the the GK-Kit -GT-3 Circuit:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6661
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com


The Fender Roland Ready Strats and GC-1 do NOT follow the GK-KIT-GT3" installation circuit shown above - electing to use a "GK Bypass" 1/4" switching jack that completely removes the Normal Guitar audio path from the GK Circuit anytime a 1/4" cord is inserted into the Normal Guitar output jack - as described here:


Fender-Roland GC-1 GK-Ready Stratocaster question
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5173.msg83658#msg83658



So there's only a loss of highs for the regular pickups in 'Mix' mode? Not in regular 'Guitar' mode?

Elantric

#30
QuoteSo there's only a loss of highs for the regular pickups in 'Mix' mode? Not in regular 'Guitar' mode?

We are talking Specifically about the Hi-Z Audio signal emerging from the Normal 1/4" Guitar Output Jack signal on a Normal "GK-KIT-GT3" Internal Installation following all of Rolands Instructions, circuit diagram and components. (Which is NOT the same as a Fender/Roland GC-1, or the FENDER ROLAND READY STRAT)

If you have perfect hearing  - yes you will hear the loss of high frequencies on the Hi-Z Audio signal emerging from the Normal 1/4" Guitar Output Jack as a result of the GK- Circuit, and yes its worse when the three way Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch is in the "Mix" position.

Its for this reason Fender Altered the Normal PU feed to the GK Internal circuit when implementing it on the Roland Ready Strat and GC-1 - electing to employ a  Switchcraft L12A 1/4" Mono 2-Conductor Jack, Tip Shunt "Switching Jack" - to completely bypass the GK Circuitry anytime a 1/4" Guitar cord is inserted into the Normal Guitar Output jack.

On the Fender Roland Ready Strat and GC-1 or any guitar that is wired the same - the position of the three way Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch has no effect and does NOT disable the Guitar Audio on the 1/4" Normal Guitar Output  when in the "Synth Position. Thanks to the Switchcraft L12A Tip Shunt "Switching Jack"  - the Guitar is electrically identical to (and sounds just like)  a bone stock Mexican Strat Anytime a 1/4" Guitar cord is inserted into the 1/4" Output Jack. Remove the 1/4" Guitar cord  - and then the Normal Guitar Audio is now connected to the GK Circuit. Yet due to all the multiple Op Amp buffers - the signal emerging at the other end of the 13 pin cable on the "Guitar Output" Jack on VG-99 or GR-55 never sounds like a stock Mexican Strat. 


datsunrobbie

Sounds like optimum configuration is the "GC-1" circuit with the bypass jack, as it provides the same functionality that you get by leaving the mag pickups out of the circuit, and additionally get the mag pickup signal through the 13-pin when you disconnect the 1/4" cable.

Elantric

#32
Correct- it just gets another layer of complexity when a Fernandes Sustainer or Mainiac Music Sustainiac is also installed.

Add EMG Active pickups - and its downright crazy.
In that case  - use a special order TRS DPDT 1/4" Switching Jack - (used to be stock Radio Shack Part 15 years ago.)

Stereo Isolated DPDT Switched Vertical Solderable 1/4 Phone Jack With Hardware
http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Stereo-Isolated-DPDT-Switched-Vertical-Solderable-1-4-Phone-Jack-With-Hardware/108001769?gpid=21297750541&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=CNmInIPZ7rgCFUQ6Qgod9jkAGQ

Enticing_Scarab

Quote from:  Elantric on August 08, 2013, 12:54:45 PM
We are talking Specifically about the Hi-Z Audio signal emerging from the Normal 1/4" Guitar Output Jack signal on a Normal "GK-KIT-GT3" Internal Installation following all of Rolands Instructions, circuit diagram and components. (Which is NOT the same as a Fender/Roland GC-1, or the FENDER ROLAND READY STRAT)

If you have perfect hearing  - yes you will hear the loss of high frequencies on the Hi-Z Audio signal emerging from the Normal 1/4" Guitar Output Jack as a result of the GK- Circuit, and yes its worse when the three way Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch is in the "Mix" position.

Its for this reason Fender Altered the Normal PU feed to the GK Internal circuit when implementing it on the Roland Ready Strat and GC-1 - electing to employ a  Switchcraft L12A 1/4" Mono 2-Conductor Jack, Tip Shunt "Switching Jack" - to completely bypass the GK Circuitry anytime a 1/4" Guitar cord is inserted into the Normal Guitar Output jack.

On the Fender Roland Ready Strat and GC-1 or any guitar that is wired the same - the position of the three way Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch has no effect and does NOT disable the Guitar Audio on the 1/4" Normal Guitar Output  when in the "Synth Position. Thanks to the Switchcraft L12A Tip Shunt "Switching Jack"  - the Guitar is electrically identical to (and sounds just like)  a bone stock Mexican Strat Anytime a 1/4" Guitar cord is inserted into the 1/4" Output Jack. Remove the 1/4" Guitar cord  - and then the Normal Guitar Audio is now connected to the GK Circuit. Yet due to all the multiple Op Amp buffers - the signal emerging at the other end of the 13 pin cable on the "Guitar Output" Jack on VG-99 or GR-55 never sounds like a stock Mexican Strat.

So if I don't plug the GK cable in, therefore only using the standard 1/4" and not giving the GK circuitry any power, there can be no loss of the higher frequencies?

Elantric

#34
Correct

Same applies to using BOTH 1/4" cable AND the 13 pin cable at same time.

No Normal Guitar PU's  get sent down the 13 pin cable and no loss of highs.

Remove the 1/4" cable and then  Normal Guitar PU's Will get sent down the 13 pin cable

Enticing_Scarab

Quote from:  Elantric on August 08, 2013, 05:40:14 PM
Correct

Same applies to using BOTH 1/4" cable AND the 13 pin cable at same time.

No Normal Guitar PU's  get sent down the 13 pin cable and no loss of highs.

Remove the 1/4" cable and then  Normal Guitar PU's Will get sent down the 13 pin cable

Ah, well the plan is I'll always play with both cables :) 1/4" going to my Egnater and stomp boxes, GK cable going to a synth or modelled guitar patch.

So in that set-up, there'll be no loss of highs to my 1/4" output even on Mix mode? :) :)

CodeSmart

Elantric, what would happen if a resistor at abt. 100 kohm is introduced between the reg. pup signal/jack and the GK-board instead of going straight to it (the 10k within the board)? This would put less current to the pups and also put a higher degree of insulation between the pups/jack and GK-kit. Q1 Guitar jack signal better highs?. Q2 GR-55 output better highs ?

Has anyone tested that?

(Even with my degraded hearing due to 35 years of abuse I hear difference btw the reg. sound and the version through the GR-55 output, but learnt to live with it by tweaking the eq of my GT-10)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Vade

#37
Quote from: Elantric on August 08, 2013, 10:03:59 AM
Correct!

It is, yet if you follow the "official" GK-KIT-GT3" installation manual, thats when you hear the loss of highs on the 1/4" jack when the switch is in the "Mix " position.

This is the the GK-Kit -GT-3 Circuit:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6661
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com


The Fender Roland Ready Strats and GC-1 do NOT follow the GK-KIT-GT3" installation circuit shown above - electing to use a "GK Bypass" 1/4" switching jack that completely removes the Normal Guitar audio path from the GK Circuit anytime a 1/4" cord is inserted into the Normal Guitar output jack - as described here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9169.msg66118#msg66118




The link given at the end of post #26 is giving an error message when clicked. It looks like it would be a good read.


Fender-Roland GC-1 GK-Ready Stratocaster question
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5173.msg83658#msg83658

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#38
Fender-Roland GC-1 GK-Ready Stratocaster question
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5173.msg83658#msg83658
All known Schematics are in this thread

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0


And understand that the Fender Roland Ready Strat / Roland GC-1 Strat's 1/4" output jack is a unique switching jack - The goal is to have a "stock Strat" when using the 1/4" output jack  - so anytime you insert a 1/4" plug into the GC-1's 1/4" "Normal PU Output"  jack  - this isolates removes the normal passive Strat Electronics signal output from entering into the GK Internal active buffer (which might load down the passive PU's and reduce high frequencies) and removes the ability to send normal mag PU tone down Pin #7 of the 13 pin Cable

QuoteAnyhow the reason for my post is that I had not played for a couple of weeks and this evening when I plugged the guitar in the magnetic pickups on the Strat were much quieter, almost inaudible, when using the 13 pin GK cable, synth/modelling sounds are fine. If I plug the Strat into the GP-10 with a standard 1/4 inch cable the magnetic pickups are fine, normal volume.

Vade

Thanks for the corrected link Steve. I'm mulling over my wiring plans while I wait for special order parts to arrive for my Fender FTP Strat build. VGuitar threads just go so well with my morning coffee!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie