VG-99 - Noise when using steel guitars

Started by topido, January 07, 2017, 08:55:28 AM

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topido

Hi everyone,

I need a little help on this one. I do get some noise when I chose steel guitars (and not with Nylon one).
I made a small recording.
The noise comes only when I play: I muted the strings in the middle of the recording and the noise is not there.
Let me know if someone has the same pb

Thanks (it's hurting my ears ;) ) :)

HecticArt

If the noise goes away when your hand is on the strings, it sounds like your ground wire might not be connected inside your guitar. Is it an electric guitar, or an acoustic with an internal pickup?

topido

Quote from: HecticArt on January 07, 2017, 12:54:48 PM
If the noise goes away when your hand is on the strings, it sounds like your ground wire might not be connected inside your guitar. Is it an electric guitar, or an acoustic with an internal pickup?

It's an electric one but I only use the GK3 on it. In fact it goes away when I stop playing (even when my hands are not on the strings....
Pardon me but... what is the ground wire in the guitar?

admin

#3
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8270.0

Its important in some regions to use the short 1/4" guitar cable between the GK-3 and your guitar's Output jack.
This should tie the GK-3 and GR-55 to the same Ground / Earth potential as your Guitar's Ground and Guitar Strings.

This should help tame background noise, and electrostatic charge which could blow opamps on the GK-3.

HecticArt

Quote from: topido on January 07, 2017, 01:21:57 PM
It's an electric one but I only use the GK3 on it. In fact it goes away when I stop playing (even when my hands are not on the strings....
Pardon me but... what is the ground wire in the guitar?
If it's with your GK3 only, start with the info that admsustainiac shared. He's got a LOT more GK experience than I do.

It's generally good to know about your guitar's grounding. If you get noise when you aren't using your GK, you'll want to look into it. You can Google to see if you can find your specific guitar or pickup/control configuration, but typically, the casings of your volume & tone controls have a wire that runs inside the body of the guitar to your bridge.


If you are having noise issues with your normal pickups, and you aren't comfortable with wiring and soldering, your local guitar shop should be able to take care of you pretty quickly.

chrish

#5
Also remember that it's an 'electric' guitar. I remember the days before house electrical systems were required to have proper grounding. And then came ground fault protection on bath, hotub, and outdoor circuts.

When i was 11 years old, a shorted soldering iron sent a shock through me where it felt like someone kicked me in the back.

It was common back then for electric guitars to hand out small electric shocks when plugged into those old tube amps. And through my memory fog, i believe that there have been fatal shocks occuring to musicians due to faulty grounding.

gumbo

Quote from: chrish on January 08, 2017, 07:53:11 AM

It was common back then for electric guitars to hand out small electric shocks when plugged into those old tube amps. And through my memory fog, i believe that there have been fatal shocks occurring to musicians due to faulty grounding.

John Rostill (70s bass player to the Shadows) was but one to have his life ended that way...
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

HecticArt

Back in the day, Zeppelin and the like wouldn't go on stage at outdoors gigs if it had been raining.
Now, it's hard to find a outdoor gig that's been cancelled for rain.

topido

First of all, thank you very much for your help.

I tried to put the short 1/4" guitar cable and it did not change anything :(

I noticed two things:
- I only get it with steel guitars: when I mix a steel guitar and another one, I only have the noise when I put the balance on the "steel side".
- The problem occurs only when I play E (low) and A strings!

I didn't update the VG99 (still in its first firmware). Do you think it would change anything?

topido


topido

Ok, I updated and it changed nothing.

BUT


I realised that the noise stops when I touch the EMG pickup with a thinger. I will change the battery and see if it changes anything :)

I'll be back after the test.

admin

#11
Quote
I realised that the noise stops when I touch the EMG pickup with a thinger. I will change the battery and see if it changes anything :)

Be sure to use the short 1/4" cable between your guitar's Output jack and GK-3 INPUT


Also check for a presence of a string ground wire to your guitars out put jack

Many EMG PU installers remove this important String Grounding  wire,  which is important as it lowers hum and noise with GK-3
The short 1/4" cable between your guitar's Output jack and GK-3 INPUT provides the ground path between strings and 13 pin cable

topido

Quote from: admsustainiac on January 09, 2017, 07:12:22 AM
Be sure to use the short 1/4" cable between your guitar's Output jack and GK-3 INPUT


Also check for a presence of a string ground wire to your guitars out put jack

Many EMG PU installers remove this important String Grounding  wire,  which is important as it lowers hum and noise with GK-3
The short 1/4" cable between your guitar's Output jack and GK-3 INPUT provides the ground path between strings and 13 pin cable

I used the 1/4" cable: still this sound.
I put a battery in the compartment for the EMG: still the noise with steel guitar.
When I have time I will check if the string grounind wire is there. I'll come back :)

Elantric

Post an audio recording of the  "noise" - so others can help identify and debug . 

mooncaine

2 photos of the guitar might help. Front and back, if possible. Just phone photos are fine. Could save a lot of words.

aliensporebomb

Agreed.  Both audio recording of the problem sound plus photographs will be a huge help in resolving your issue!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

topido

#16
Quote from: Elantric on January 11, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
Post an audio recording of the  "noise" - so others can help identify and debug .

I did, it's in my first post ;)
(you can hear it clearly at the 17th second)

topido

And here comes the pictures :)

(thanks AGAIN for taking time to help me  :)).

Brak(E)man

Try the normal PU in a guitar amp and see if you have a noise problem there as well
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

admin

#19
That noise is typical for many  - often a result of an incorrectly installed GK Hex PU.

Post your VG-99  patch so other can help improve the dynamic range - you may have a compressor that is contributing to the noise "bloom" at 17 seconds

But might be due to a GK-Hex pick that is mounted too far away from the strings  - requiring a boost of the GK String sensitivity - too much boost  = noise

lower the noise by raising the Gk PU height closer to the strings


post pic of the front of your  guitar and close up of the GK Hex PU installation. 

topido

Quote from: Brak(E)man on January 14, 2017, 07:18:03 AM
Try the normal PU in a guitar amp and see if you have a noise problem there as well
I don't have the noise with the EMG pickup alone... Only when I use the GK3.

admin

#21
 a GK3 Hex PU mounted too far away from the strings  = poor results and noise

Post a photo of this view from YOUR guitar

( GK Hex too far from strings below)


topido


admin

#23
Upload the VG-99 Steel Guitar patch you are using so other can help improve the dynamic range - you may have a compressor that is contributing to the noise "bloom" at 17 seconds

or try alternate VG-99 patches here - many have lower noise that yours

VG-99 Acoustic patches

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=796.0


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=29.0

topido

Ok, I'll post the patch (it's quite easy, I took the excellent FlashNylon I got here and replaced the nylon guitar by the MA28 model here ;)). But I'll post it, give me 5 minutes to create it.

Have your looked at the wiring? Is the ground wired in the correct way? I think I can see three black cables connected to a screw in the bottom of my picture. Is it the right way to do?