FTP - Losing inner chord notes on FTP

[sine_3000]

Hi All,

Just got a new FTP, and after setting it up I find that it tracks very well (not better than my GK3, though) - but, what I am noticing, when I look at the (very nice!) fretboard MIDI note display, that the FTP is not playing the inner voicings on block chords, when I play them with a fast , single-motion finger pluck.

What it is giving me, is just the top-and-bottom voicings, and omitting the middle notes.  This is happening pretty consistently across the fretboard, on all strings - a little less so on lower-stringed chords.  But, I don't play them as often.

This is bad, because for comping, I do a lot of this, and I was hoping to be able to comp piano and organ chords this way.

I find if I do a fast downward strum, I get better note completion - best with a pick, slightly less so with fingers.  But again, worst with a solitary pull with all fingertips.

I have everything turned up to max sensitivity, mostly, and have set up the pickup to within a close level of the strings (some looseness when measured with the string spacer, but I used the best-fitting pick support for my guitar).

Has anyone else had a similar experience, this losing of inner chord voices?  And if so, did you solve it?  And if so, how?  Thanks for the help.

[neshel]

The TP interface doesn't handle unisons between strings. Sometimes it just misses things. Fishman told me via email that the ware was thrown together as a basic out-of-box application. My best experience is a ASIO4ALL inside Reaper, though Win Audio was a close second.

[Spider]

Use 6 MIDI channel, proper PB setting and try record MIDI this will show what FTP register and what not. 

[sine_3000]

Thanks for those replies you two.  Interesting to know that it might just be the TP interface that's dropping the inner voicings - I sure hope so! 

I could use MIDI-Ox to test the signal.  But, it's going to be hard to parse if there are missing notes, maybe?  I'll have to try.

Still, I do like the fretboard interface, as a visual indicator of what's being played.  Anyone have any suggestions as to another program that can show live MIDI output on a fretboard-like representation?  Band In A Box has one, I know, but I'm not sure if it can only do output from MIDI files, and not display MIDI input.

[fpadellaro]

Spider has the right info here.  In POLY, you're going to have trouble with simultaneous note off and on for the same pitches.  This has nothing to do with the software.  Setup in MONO, either with our software or without, and you'll have accurate tracking on concurrent performance of identical notes on multiple strings.  If you need more details on how to accurately setup for best tracking either within TriplePlay software or as a direct controller, feel free to email TriplePlay customer support at support@fishman.com.  As an aside, our software has been in its current stable version for quite some time and we're really happy with it.    I'm sure there was a misunderstanding somewhere in your email exchange, but I don't want to leave the wrong impression out there either.  There was nothing thrown together about it.

[Elantric]

Frank -

Thanks for joining here and jumping in with excellent FTP tech support

All Fishman Tripleplay owners need to visit and read the FTP Tutorials here
http://www.fishman.com/articles/introducing-tripletalk-a-dedicated-page-for-tripleplay-tutorials
http://tripletalk.fishman.com/

( see you at 2016 Winter NAMM!)

[shawnb]

Ahhhh....  He's in POLY...   

[sine_3000]

No, I'm in MONO.

If I strike very deliberately and firmly with all fingertips simultaneously, all four notes will voice.  But if I am even the least bit casual - like you might be comping some background on a mag pu - only the outer voices will sound.

So it must be a sensitivity issue.  But still I find it strange that only the first and last notes are sounding.

I have the TP pickup as close as I can get it to the strings with my guitar, a modern Tele, and I have screwed it up almost as high as it will go.  Also, I am on "fingerstyle" set to 10.  What more can I do?

[shawnb]

Definitely observe in MIDIOX.   Best tool for this question.  Sometimes tough to get the FTP app & MIDIOX to play nice side by side.   IIRC, set up MIDIOX before loading the FTP app.    Note channels & velocities of notes.

So the notes are missing from the fretboard display and you can't hear them as well?

Your synth voice has 6 channels/instruments setup?

How close is your pickup to the bridge?

Is it better if you play very softly?   You mentioned you had sensitivity set to max.   I wonder if it might be too high.

First I've heard of someone losing the middle strings. 

Screenshots & a pic of your ftp installation would definitely help. 

[fpadellaro]

I always get nervous about hearing things like having it up almost as far as it will go.  What is the actual measurement on each string from the bottom of the string to the center of the TriplePlay pickup?

[sine_3000]

Measured with the string spacer, while fretting the highest fret available, I have just a tiny bit of free play up and down, maybe a millimeter, maybe two.  I tweaked it with the screwdriver a bit, tiny bit higher on the treble strings, tiny bit lower on the bass strings.

At this point, I'm thinking that it might be partly due to my strings, which are semi-flats, and thus are a little "deader" than standard, bright round wound strings.  They are fairly new, so it's not that they are sonically dead, but these strings are a bit muted naturally, as is my preference when I'm playing thru mag PU's.  So maybe I'll put on a set of extra bright's and see if that improves things.

I also notice that if I pull my right hand fingers off at a slightly more "right angle" to the strings, I get better note completion.  So, it might even be a case of my own fingers deadening the strings as I attack them.

And, of course, firmly fretting each string with a separate left hand finger (as opposed to partial barres), also helps to present each note.

So also it seems partly a technique issue, and we all know that MIDI guitar is a different beast that regular guitar, of course.

These are things I never noticed with my GR-20 or GR-55, but maybe only because I never had that neat real-time fretboard lighting up in front of me!  I do think that is cool to have. I'll have to drag out the GR-55 and do some similar tests to see if this losing-notes issue is there too.

I am betting that brighter strings will have the biggest impact, though, right now,

[fpadellaro]

Our thickness spacer is 1mm.  We do suggest that height without fretting at the last fret.  over 1mm is going to result in poor relative performance.  p. 4 of this guide shows the optimal height.  On my own guitar, I was able to get closer than that without buzzing, but your own results may vary.  2mm is way to far, especially if you're fretting before measurement.  http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/download/tripleplay_hwguide.pdf

[neshel]

I tried the spacer, but at least on my Carvin DC127, it was too low and the intonation got all whacked, so I had to eye it back up and  compensate with the sensitivity. Still, none of the strings are at sixteen, and my lack of technique hasn't gotten in the way of fairly clean and articulate performance. I can imagine that any certain person's technique might be peculiar enough to make for difficulty.....

...our software has been in its current stable version for quite some time and we're really happy with it.    I'm sure there was a misunderstanding somewhere in your email exchange, but I don't want to leave the wrong impression out there either.  There was nothing thrown together about it.

Oh. Good to know.

[neshel]

Never mind. I posted the idea here.

[melodymann]

 Hey all,
Just wanted to chime in on this, first of all it's great to see Frank from  Fishman helping out on this subject, I've had  A few sessions with him at Fishman support and he is a super nice as well as knowledgeable and helpful guy. I have had similar issues to yours but not specifically inner strings ,just notes dying off faster than others which seems unrelated to the way that I'm striking them. One of the biggest problems that I have with the tripleplay is sustaining notes in general while trying to retain control over them.  If I'm playing a note or chord and adding vibrato triple play will just stop listening to the vibrato but continue to play the note which is now sharp because that's where my finger was when it stopped listening. I have done tests and Roland  definitely doesn't suffer from this problem ... Not only is the sustain slightly longer but it listens to any input all the way through. I posted with more detail about this here on the forum quite sometime ago and couldn't seem to get any useful feedback... Maybe it's just me  but I doubt it.  Could you let me know if you're experiencing this?

Back to your problem here's something that may or may not help. If you're in monomode try setting each channels polyphony to just one voice. This will enable you to use a sustain pedal to hold a chord and change to another one without releasing the  pedal, provided the notes are on the same strings.  This is similar to one of Rolands sustain modes and is very musical....ymmv

Hope this helps
Regards Terry

[neshel]

There's a gating element in Midi Guitar and MiGic. There's probly the same function, whether in hardware or software, in the TP that can be the culprit in a pitch ending early. There could also be something in the pitch detection, that isn't open to the user, determining when the pitch level is below threshold - which seems to be a slight higher than I'd like. Basically the solution is to have new strings, and a good set-up.