RMC OPT-01 - GR-55 Internal Subsonic Filter board

Started by imall41, February 21, 2011, 05:24:58 AM

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surfnorthwest

#25
Ah, thanks for the clairification. I have experienced this also on other patches, thought the woofers on my JBL monitors were going to explode. I think my LGX-SA is a 2007, great guitar. So this fix will require me to open the gr55 and swap the input board?

imall41

#26
Quote from: surfnorthwest on February 28, 2011, 01:44:48 PM
Ah, thanks for the clairification. I have experienced this also on other patches, thought the woofers on my JBL monitors were going to explode. I think my LGX-SA is a 2007, great guitar. So this fix will require me to open the gr55 and swap the input board?

Yes.

Nokie

#27
Quote from: imall41 on February 24, 2011, 08:29:42 PM
I'm guessing the price will be somewhere around $160-$180.(just a rough guess)

I just looked in my checkbook, and I paid $145 for the V9SF-001(VG-99 filter).

But the OPT-01(GR-55 filter), may be a little more involved than the V9SF version.

Richard should get Elantric's GR-55 tomorrow, and hopefully we may have some news on price and ship date by next week.

I don't think it's going to take too long. Richard is very eager to get this to us.

If you are definitely going to get one of these, you could contact him here to get on the order list.
info@rmcmusic.com

I'm using both a Piezo system and a GK-3 on my GR-55. The GK-3 works beautifully and the Piezo has the sensitivity problems. My concern in replacing the input board is that it will affect the excellent performance of the GK-3. Should I be concerned?

imall41

#28
Quote from: Nokie on March 02, 2011, 11:04:58 AM
I'm using both a Piezo system and a GK-3 on my GR-55. The GK-3 works beautifully and the Piezo has the sensitivity problems. My concern in replacing the input board is that it will affect the excellent performance of the GK-3. Should I be concerned?

Read here (posts # 1&2 by Elantric)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=568.75

The way I read this is, the subsonic filter has no audible effect on the GK-3.

imall41

#29
                 G5SF-001 Update

In response to "How is the OPT-01 progressing?"

Richard McClish wrote, on 03/03.

"I sent the OPT-01 gerber files to the p.c.board fabricator and should 
get a few samples sometime next week.
I'm trying to source the wire harness connectors and find a 
contractor to assemble them.
I'd say it is going quite well indeed.

Best regards,

RMC  Richard McClish"

info@rmcmusic.com



Nokie

#30
Quote from: imall41 on March 02, 2011, 12:06:44 PM
Read here (posts # 1&2 by Elantric)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=568.75

The way I read this is, the subsonic filter has no audible effect on the GK-3.
Excellent, thanks!

imall41

#31
                         
                         Update.

        Today, 03/11, Richard wrote,

"-=- Hi,

I'm waiting for 2mm connectors to arrive from a local vendor in order to
assemble the wire harnesses. When we have a few of them assembled, I can
install my G5SF prototype board in Steve's GR-55 and upon 
verification of
performance, we can proceed with production.

See picture showing the OPT-01 proto.

Best regards,

RMC  Richard McClish"

info@rmcmusic.com


imall41

#32
                 Update.

         On 3/18 Richard wrote,

-=- Hi,

The G5SF prototype works fine and I returned Elantric's GR-55 with one 
in it
since I recently received my GR-55 from Roland US.

The wire harnesses require special equipment to assemble cost-
effectively.
I'm looking for a local assembly contractor to assemble the first 100 
pcs.
If I don't find what I'm looking for, I'll have the whole product 
made in
Asia in small batches.

I'm stuck with the flu right now, so things are on hiatus till it's 
passed.

Best regards,

RMC

info@rmcmusic.com

imall41

#33
                            Update.

                   On 03/26 Richard McClish wrote.

-=- Hi ,

  Unfortunately, I still don't have a source 
for assembled wire harnesses, so I'm not in production yet.

Until I can get pre-assembled wire harnesses, customers can send me 
the original jackboard and I can transfer the Roland wiring harness 
onto the G5SF.


I'm having a special de-soldering tool custom made for 
that purpose. This will serve the immediate needs of those who prefer 
not to wait for the production units, and it won't be too labor-
intensive at our end.

I'm doing further filtering experiments to optimize synth tracking 
with the piezos and will keep you posted on the developments.

Best regards,

RMC

info@rmcmusic.com

Nokie

#34
Hey Richard,
In what general area are you located?
-Marty

imall41

#35
Quote from: Nokie on March 30, 2011, 10:27:20 AM
Hey Richard,
In what general area are you located?
-Marty
RMC is located in Calif.
Contact them with any questions.
info@rmcmusic.com

3dognate

#36
What kind of turn around time are you offering (minus in transit shipping time)?

Quote from: imall41 on March 28, 2011, 06:37:47 AM
                            Update.

                   On 03/26 Richard McClish wrote.

-=- Hi ,

  Unfortunately, I still don't have a source 
for assembled wire harnesses, so I'm not in production yet.

Until I can get pre-assembled wire harnesses, customers can send me 
the original jackboard and I can transfer the Roland wiring harness 
onto the G5SF.


I'm having a special de-soldering tool custom made for 
that purpose. This will serve the immediate needs of those who prefer 
not to wait for the production units, and it won't be too labor-
intensive at our end.

I'm doing further filtering experiments to optimize synth tracking 
with the piezos and will keep you posted on the developments.

Best regards,

RMC

info@rmcmusic.com
>>> http://www.tddRocks.com <<<

My live rig consists of:
-Noel Custom Guitars both GK and Ghost Equipped
-Digitech GSP1101 + Control2
-Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth
-EV ELX112P FRFR monitors
-Gator Cases
-Miller High-Life

imall41

#37
Quote from: 3dognate on April 01, 2011, 07:04:03 AM
What kind of turn around time are you offering (minus in transit shipping time)?

Any questions regarding ordering a OPT-01, need to be emailed to RMC here.
info@rmcmusic.com

All the information in this thread is just being posted from email communications with RMC.

carlb

#38
I play Carvins, an SH575 and and SH475.

They are simply exceptional high-quality carved top synth-access guitars.

But a problem with their Ghost/Graphtec piezo pickup system has nagged at me for almost as long I've used them. Depending on your GR-55/VG-99 patch and settings, they can be much noisier than the GK-Pickups or RMC pickups. Especially when your palm rests on the bridge. So noisy that some patches and settings become unusable. Others you have to be careful not to rest your palm on the bridge, or even touch it.

Whereas with other hex pickup systems things are just fine.

Graphtec does not shield their piezo saddle pickup elements. I believe this is because of their simple, non-insulated saddle piece construction. While the tops of the saddles are grounded via the strings, it would seem that bottoms or sides can not.

Instead Graphtec relies on a differential amplifier to subtract out the common-mode noise on each saddle piece. This works relatively well. Except when noise imbalances reach the diff-amp inputs. Two of the main conditions for imbalance:


  • Your palm comes near or rests on the saddle.
  • The balance falls off for very low frequencies (perhaps due to piezo coupling cap tolerances or diff-amp performance.

By all accounts, the RMC input filter does appear to attenuate the out-of-band noise, which is where these problems manifest most.

So, here goes. I'll keep you posted on the results I get.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

viramundo

#39
Quote from: Nokie on February 24, 2011, 06:46:26 PM
I will be interested in how well the filter deals with the problem. I've experienced the noise issues with my Carvin NS1 (Graphtech Ghost Piezo system) plugged into the GR-55. The first clue of a problem was found when using the GK-55's tuner. The 2nd string would register as several other strings. That didn't happen with the GK-3 pickup mounted on my Tele. For now I have dropped the GR-55's global sensitivity setting, corresponding to the Graphtech Piezos, to 10 (I have it at 65 for the GK-3 pickup). In addition, certain settings such as saxophone require individual sensitivity settings. With those adjustments, the extraneous noise problems are gone but the individual patch sensitivity settings have to re-adjusted when I go back to the GK-3. It's great to hear a potential solution to the problem is already being developed. -Marty

Interesting, I have a similar problem with my Frameworks nylon strung Modern Classic equipped with RMC pick up. I've been getting a slightly more acceptable results on the patches by raising the low velocity cut off to 8.

I'll try & locate the global sensitivity control, maybe that will give me a better workaround solution than upping the low velocity cut.

viramundo

#40
My reply from Richard McCleish



"
I've had a nice reply from Richard Macleish from RMC, he says the sensitivity should be set to 0 on all strings.

Here is the whole email



"Thanks for your interest in RMC products.

Since you're using an RMC-equipped instrument, please find below a list of my current GK settigns for your reference.

_____________________________________


GK SETTINGS  as of 4/05/11

"PU"
PU type ;  PIEZO R
Scale :  650 MM
PU phase : NORMAL
PU direction : NORMAL
S1/S2 position : NORMAL
MORM PU gain : 0 dB
PIEZO TONE  LOW  :    0
PIEZO TONE HIGH  :   +5

"DIS"
10.0 mm all strings

"SEN"
0  all strings

"VEL"
Velocity Dynamics :  6
Play-Feel         :  4
Low-Velocity Cut  :  5

"NUA"
Nuance Dynamics   :  5
Nuance Trim       :  5

"DOW"
Shift   :   0

__________________________________


However, properly adjusting the GK (system) settings is only half the story.
There are also patch-specific parameter adjustments to be performed which make a huge difference in play-feel and tracking results.

For example : CHROMATIC, LEGATO, LEVEL VELOCITY SENS & VELOCITY CURVE TYPE are all patch specific.
If chromatic and legato aren't properly set for what you want to do, you're not going to be happy with the results. I recommend discussing these topics on the VG forum. Some power users should be providing some patch-related preferences by now.


With regards to the usability of the GR-300 sounds (or lack thereof) thats where the OPT-01 active jackboard with subsonic filtering does its best work.

The OPT-01 active jackboard features polyphonic subsonic filtering to help eliminate unwanted side-effects due to the subsonic over- sensitivity of the GR-55 when using the analog GR-300 sounds.

The OPT-01 beta prototype is under construction - see picture. 
Pricing will be £ 90.
We expect to have units in stock in June or sooner.

I've created a special inquiries folder for this new product and I'll notify everyone who has requested one as soon as we have units ready to ship. The news will also be posted on the VG forums. I'm keeping their moderator informed so members will be provided with accurate information.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3236.0

I hope the information provided will be helpful.

Best regards,

RMC   Richard McClish""

nelcatjar

I have a Brian Moore i88.13 and Godin xsta with RMC pickups.  If I install the RMC Subsonic filter in my GR-55, how does that non-pickups?  Like what if I switch to another guitar with GK3, or use different guitar with Ghost pickups?  Will the RMC Subsonic filter cause problems other pickups?
Q: What's the difference between a musician and a large pizza?
A:  A large pizza can feed a family of 4.

Brian Moore i88.13, Godin xtSA, GR-55, Boss ME-70.

imall41

#42
Quote from:  nelcatjar on April 07, 2011, 08:45:13 AM
I have a Brian Moore i88.13 and Godin xsta with RMC pickups.  If I install the RMC Subsonic filter in my GR-55, how does that non-pickups?  Like what if I switch to another guitar with GK3, or use different guitar with Ghost pickups?  Will the RMC Subsonic filter cause problems other pickups?

Read here (posts # 1&2 by Elantric)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=568.75

The way I read this is, the subsonic filter has no audible effect on the GK-3,
and will provide similar improvements to the Ghost, as with the RMC.

The RMC Subsonic Filter is designed to remove low frequency noises (from handling, and bumping the trem bar, palming the bridge, and even tapping the body) which tend to transfer through all piezos, not just RMC. Some newer RMC piezos come with subsonic filtering. I believe, starting in 2009.
I do not know if doubling up on the filtering by using a newer RMC along with a G5SF will cause any issues.
Thats a question for RMC, or maybe Elantric.

Elantric

The addition of the RMC Input Filter presents zero "ill effect" problems for GK-3, GK-2A users.
After installation of the appropriate version of the RMC subharmonic filter 13pin input board on either VG-99, or GR-55,   You may freely use either piezo OR magnetic Hex pickups.

Gopaul

#44
I've just completed an 'ad hoc' inline filter using RMC Subsonic filter i had put in my VG-99- It works fine for both units now. I used the connector off an old 2 1/5 HDD and spliced an old 13 pin  cable to it. It aint pretty but it does work! When I've put it in a box and tidied it up I'll post some pictures.
PP
www.staustell-baptist.org.uk
Godin XTSA or GK3 equipped LP
VG-99
Gr-55
RC-30
Vocalist Live 3

nelcatjar

#45
Quote from: Elantric on February 28, 2011, 11:39:12 AM
It also depends on the year of your guitar too.

In 2009 RMC redesigned the PolyDrive preamp used in Godin's and incorporated a new sub harmonic filter into the new PCBs, but these are only just now shipping in specific model Godin instruments.

How could one tell if their Godin has that board?  I got a Godin in 2010.

I have a Brian Moore made in early 2000s which obviously has the older board.
Q: What's the difference between a musician and a large pizza?
A:  A large pizza can feed a family of 4.

Brian Moore i88.13, Godin xtSA, GR-55, Boss ME-70.

Elantric

#46
Is one working better than the other in regards to the COSM GR-300 tones?

a2dconverter

#47
Quote from: Gopaul on April 08, 2011, 01:51:19 PM
I've just completed an 'ad hoc' inline filter using RMC Subsonic filter i had put in my VG-99- It works fine for both units now. I used the connector off an old 2 1/5 HDD and spliced an old 13 pin  cable to it. It aint pretty but it does work! When I've put it in a box and tidied it up I'll post some pictures.

Hey Gopaul...I did the same as you...

I received my new GR-55 Sub filter board today and I and was originally going to install it into my GR-55 but I thought that it would be more useful as an inline device before my US-20 clone. I mounted the board in a BUD diecast box and used a piece of GK cable for the output. (fits like a glove!)

I am using Graphtech Ghost Saddles and I didn't adjust any sensitivity from what I had before and I can actually use the GR-300 patch!

Richard's Filter is a required mod if you want to use that patch and if you generally want to dampen subsonic frequencies that are transferred through the piezo pickups.

here's some pix










seeya

Joe
Guitar Synths/ Controllers
GR-1
GI-20
GR-55
Custom US-20 w/ Breakout for GK Volume and S1/S2
Inline RMC GR-55 Sub-Filter
2 x Ibanez Roadstar II with Graphtech Floyd Rose Piezo Bridge and Hexpander Driver
PRS Santana w/ Graphtech Piezo Saddles and Hexpander Driver
etc...

Elantric

#48
Good Job!!!

imall41

#49
Quote from: a2dconverter on April 15, 2011, 02:01:27 PM
Hey Gopaul...I did the same as you...

I received my new GR-55 Sub filter board today and I and was originally going to install it into my GR-55 but I thought that it would be more useful as an inline device before my US-20 clone. I mounted the board in a BUD diecast box and used a piece of GK cable for the output. (fits like a glove!)

I am using Graphtech Ghost Saddles and I didn't adjust any sensitivity from what I had before and I can actually use the GR-300 patch!

Richard's Filter is a required mod if you want to use that patch and if you generally want to dampen subsonic frequencies that are transferred through the piezo pickups.

  seeya

Joe

Nice work.
Yes, my hopes were for an inline filter, but my modding skills are not up to snuff with yours (mostly lack of a shop, and drill press), so I will have to do the internal install.
I haven't installed mine yet, been too busy at work, and caught up building a new parts guitar for a GK-3.
Thanks for the report on the improvements to the GR-300 patch.
I will report also, as soon as I install the filter.