Katana - Add 5pin DIN MIDI Control to Katana Combo Amps.

Started by Elantric, November 21, 2016, 12:02:53 AM

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Elantric


Good News for Boss Katana Amp Owners.


Just connected Boss Katana 100-112 Combo's USB Client port ( with a typical USB 2.0 cable) to the PrimovaSound MIDX-20 Dual USB Host to MIDI Adapter's Upper Host Port
Eureka - The MIDX-20 provides a path to access the Boss Katana's MIDI Control via standard 5 pin DIN MIDI Input.

I verified the stock Boss Katana 100-112 Combo supports the same MIDI Implementation as the Boss Katana Head MIDI Implementation, Thanks to the PrimovaSound MIDX-20 Dual USB Host to MIDI Adapter
http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20.html






QuoteWhat can you control (with MIDI commands) on the amp that the footswitch can't?




Nothing


However, a functional MIDI input opens doors for Katana to be used by a show band that has a master computer controlling lights and send patch change commands to the stage MFX

It also allows Katana to be integrated into a larger rig where there is a MIDI foot controller

But the GA-FC provides more control , tap tempo and support for dual expression pedals

mchad

I just performed the same exercise with the MIDX-10. It too will select channels 1 to 4 and Panel. I haven't programmed any channels yet. I just plugged in the MIDX-10 and used an old Yamaha MFC05 midi footswitch.

I did not perform the midi receive procedure as per the manual excerpt shown in Elantric's post. I'll do that if it is supposed to make a difference? Only mentioning that because the combo is not meant to react to midi.

mchad


I just did a factory reset of the amp and hooked up the MIDX-10. Now I have a beautiful clean selection of channels with my midi footswitch. Before the reset I could select a channel but some random unintended effect selections were also occurring. Note I haven't saved any channels yet. I'm still exploring the Panel tones. Nonetheless the MIDX-10 activates the channels via midi to usb. Cool!

Elantric

#3
Of interest: The fact that the stock Katana 100-112 combo firmware 1.02 already supports MIDI over USB with identical MIDI command features as the Katana Head with MIDI Input jack suggests the MIDI Input jack and optoisolator were just left off the bill of materials for the Katana 100 watt combo's,   and that a clever person with DIY skills might be able to add the missing 5pin DIN "MIDI INPUT" jack and optoisolator IC  to the Katana 100 watt combos and achieve a working  MIDI Input.
(The Katana 50 appears to be a different animal with less features  and smaller PCB boards.)

stay tuned

   

Filipe

Quote from: Elantric on November 22, 2016, 10:05:57 AM
Of interest: The fact that the stock Katana 100-112 combo firmware 1.02 already supports MIDI over USB with identical MIDI command features as the Katana Head with MIDI Input jack suggests the MIDI Input jack and optoisolator were just left off the bill of materials for the Katana 100 watt combo's (...)

Well, they had to justify the Head's higher price somehow... here in Europe it's another €100 on top of the 112, and the 212 puts another €100 on top of that.   :-X

vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on November 22, 2016, 10:05:57 AM
Of interest: The fact that the stock Katana 100-112 combo firmware 1.02 already supports MIDI over USB with identical MIDI command features as the Katana Head with MIDI Input jack suggests the MIDI Input jack and optoisolator were just left off the bill of materials for the Katana 100 watt combo's,   and that a clever person with DIY skills might be able to add the missing 5pin DIN "MIDI INPUT" jack and optoisolator IC  to the Katana 100 watt combos and achieve a working  MIDI Input.

It would be delightful if that simple.  I was more thinking of an add-on board in the head.  Since you own a head and a combo, I think you're the man to answer the question definitively!

mooncaine

NOW I'm finally thinking about getting one, because I already have a MIDX-10 and I want control, always more control than I really need, so the combos weren't getting any traction with me because, well, no MIDI. The head's fine, if you like head, but I like combo.

After playing out with my Mustang III v2 a dozen times, I'm disenthused. I should probably work up a MIDI control layout for my FCB1010, stick that on the Mustang and kick some sounds around. And maybe roll off more treble. I got the habit, a bad habit, of diming the treble first, and pulling back only later.

Well, I guess I don't *need* it. I should work on mellowing out my Mustang. It's all me, not the amp. I got bad tone knob habits.

vtgearhead

Quote from: mooncaine on December 15, 2016, 11:38:11 PM
NOW I'm finally thinking about getting one, because I already have a MIDX-10 and I want control, always more control than I really need, so the combos weren't getting any traction with me because, well, no MIDI. The head's fine, if you like head, but I like combo.

The same folks who brought you MIDI control of the Mustang (Codesmart and I) are working on full MIDI support for the Katana.  If you want to follow our progress, see the thread here on sysex reverse-engineering.  While the head is fitted with a MIDI connector, they expose almost nothing as CC and PC controls.  We'll need to map PC and CC to sets of sysex messages to do anything really interesting.

carlb

I can report the Katana works great with the MIDX-20 to allow a Midi-Mouse to change channels. "Channels" on the Katana are implemented the same and present exactly the same as the patches for other Roland/Boss gear.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

admin

#9
Additional development on working 5 pin MIDI control for all Katana amps is underway

follow these threads here:

KATANA- MIDI over USB Sysex Reverse Engineering
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19707.0

QuoteBut if you are brave enough to run my MIDI bridge code on a small embedded computer, sky's the limit (including external access to the missing presence knob):

https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge

This is not plug-and-play, however.  Some hacking required.

Elantric

QuoteWould someone who owns a Katana head please take close-up photos of the MIDI connector region - both front and rear of board if possible?






The missing "JK4" 5 pin DIN MIDI IN connector used on Katana Head  / Katana 100-112  / 212 PCB is a special type from here

T-Tatsumi / JALCO YKF51-5067V (YKF51-5067)
http://t-tatsumi.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/c53310b95cfb71233ead925bf8cc92f2.pdf


http://t-tatsumi.com/


T-Tatsumi / JALCO YKF51-5067V(YKF51-5067) is a special MIDI connector that brings only three pins (#1,#2,#3) down to the PCB 


reference

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/midi-tutorial/hardware--electronic-implementation
Hardware & Electronic Implementation
MIDI Hardware
One of the design goals of MIDI was that it needed to be relatively inexpensive. When MIDI was created, most electronic instruments were already built around a microprocessor system, so MIDI was defined as a micro-to-micro digital communication buss. One goal was that the hardware for the interface would only increase the bill of materials cost by about $5, which, by comparison to the rest of the parts, was an insignificant cost.

Physical Implementation

Since electronic musical instruments already feature a number of plugs and connections, MIDI specifies one that wasn't commonly in use at the time: the circular 5-pin DIN connector. A unique connector was selected so things couldn't be misconnected.

Note that the pins on the connector are numbered out of order – it's as if two more pins were added between the pins of a 3-pin connector. To help keep it straight, the numbers are frequently embossed in the plastic of the connector.

To plug into that connector, you need a MIDI cable.


While the connectors have five pins, only three of them are used. If you want to wire your own MIDI cable, you'll need two male, 5-pin DIN connectors and a length of shielded, twisted-pair (STP) cable.

A MIDI cable is connected as follows:

MIDI Cable Wiring
First Connector   Cable   Second Connector
Pin 1   No Connection   Pin 1
Pin 2   Shield   Pin 2
Pin 3   No Connection   Pin 3
Pin 4   Voltage Reference Line   Pin 4
Pin 5   Data Line   Pin 5
The spec defines a maximum cable length of 50 feet (15 meters).

QuoteNote: If you're looking for a 5-pin DIN cable with all five pins connected, you don't want a regular MIDI cable, as there's no guarantee that all of the pins are connected. You need a 5-Pin DIN cable. In a pinch, you can substitute a 5-pin DIN cable for a MIDI cable, but not the other way around.






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vtgearhead

My undying gratitude to the first person who can point me to a source for those connectors. 

admin

I'm just going to cut the unused pins #4, #5  and solder it in

QuoteMy undying gratitude to the first person who can point me to a source for those connectors. 

http://www.tokyo-cci.or.jp/english/ibo/0704334.htm


melodisk

So its possible to buy a din connector and solder it with 3 wires and it would work ???

Elantric

#14
QuoteSo its possible to buy a din connector and solder it with 3 wires and it would work ???

Absolutely

The MIDI input on Katana only needs two pins (#2 & #4) on the DIN5 connector

You can easily use a chassis punch and mount a metal DIN 5 female Chassis mount jack and run wires down to the PC board

Just need to add the other components

Hope to get this info soon

vtgearhead

Quote from: admsustainiac on February 24, 2017, 07:43:50 PM
I'm just going to cut the unused pins #4, #5  and solder it in

That's easy enough, yes.  But the major issue is the ground lugs which serve as the primary strain relief.  The OEM Tatsumi part has them on very different centers from any chassis-mount DIN connector I'm able to source.  I suppose I can cut the ground lugs off and epoxy the connector on, but that seems a bit kludgy. 

Or, am I missing something obvious?

admin

#16
QuoteOr, am I missing something obvious?


use a chassis punch


5 Pin DIN Socket Female Panel Mount

and mount a metal DIN 5 female Chassis mount jack ( rotated 45 degrees)  and run wires down to the PC board


Just need to add the other components

Quote
That's easy enough, yes.  But the major issue is the ground lugs which serve as the primary strain relief.

the above Female Panel Mount type MIDI socket mounted to a metal chassis ( not the PC board) achieves higher strain relief - although you must pay attention to the way your MIDI cables you intend to use are wired. 

The MIDI INPUT only needs two pins (#2 & #4) on the DIN5 connector , and nothing else


To prevent a Ground Loop  - THE DIN SHELL HAS NO CONNECTION - only connect the MIDI cable earth shield to Pin #2 ( per the MIDI spec )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI

Every member of the forum should Learn to use a Ohm meter  - quality MIDI cables are fine, however some cheap 5 pin MIDI cables tie the cable shield to the DIN Shell ( like our GK 13 cables require)

But thats a No-No for proper 5 pin MIDI cables  - as the spec demands only 2 wires to feed an opto-isolator  IC on the MIDI Input side  -  and NO Ground connection , to prevent ground loops ! ( the bane of all audio gear!) 

vtgearhead

Thanks.  Have chassis punch, will travel!

I hadn't thought about panel mounting, but that's the obvious answer.  Sometimes I cannot see the forest because of the trees :-). 

When you (or anyone else) gets the PCB out of the unit, would you please take a photo of the bottom in the area of the MIDI connector outline?  I need the part number for the little opto-isolator SMD and values for the chip resistors.


vtgearhead


Elantric


melodisk

#21
Okay,im.an midiot, where on the PC do i solder pin 2 and 4 , drawing maybe ?
and will this work with my midi controller without midx-20 , lastly do I need this opto isolator,
Sorry for the dumb.questions.:)

Elantric

#22
Quote from: melodisk on April 08, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Okay,im.an midiot, where on the PC do i solder pin 2 and 4 , drawing maybe ?
and will this work with my midi controller without midx-20 , lastly do I need this opto isolator,
Sorry for the dumb.questions.:)









here is the target PC board at "JK4"  the pin order ( far to near) is #5, #2, #4
With

pin #5 close to the "JK4" text.
pin #2 is in the center  - offset to the left
pin #4 close to the "R105" text.

Quote

But I highly suggest wait for the step by step instructions   - else you do risk burning up a power rail and frying your katana if you hook this up wrong

Quoteand will this work with my midi controller without midx-20 , lastly do I need this opto isolator,

Opto isolator is mandatory

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-PC410L-SMD-5-PC410-SOP-5-High-Speed-Response-High-CMR-OPIC-Photocoupler/371690246964?_trksid=p3693.c100102.m2452&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140212121249%26meid%3Df34e1c798772435c8c60523a883cbd8e%26pid%3D100102%26
AFAIK - nobody has completed this yet - its still a "theory"

Elantric

#23


Katana Head  - PCB Bottom view under the MIDI Input jack

IC10  = MIDI Input Opto-isolator IC

IC9  = GA-FC Input Opto-isolator IC

IC7  = GA-FC Input Opto-isolator IC

vtgearhead

Thanks!  Next question:  Which resistors / caps are missing from the combo amp PCB and what are their values?  I suppose I could infer this from the GR-55 tech information, but would be better to get from the Katana head.