What Modeling or Multi FX Unit is Best For Cutting Bass?

Started by Virtual Tone, March 10, 2008, 03:50:36 PM

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Virtual Tone

I know the VG-99 has some bass modeling, but I was wondering what to get for my studio when it comes down to the real deal.

I like what I have heard with the Line 6 Variax Bass unit.  Also the V Bass from Roland sounds good.

I'm a keyboardist first, so I can play any synth bass etc. 

I have Trilogy and other bass samples so that COULD be enough but....

Any suggestions?

V.T.  8)



feloniouspunk

...when it comes down to the real deal?  The real deal.  Get a real bass.  There is no substitute.
Lots of Gear. :)

baranger1

Truth is nothing!

Just a direct box straight in.
Maybe a LA-2 style compressor of some sort.

The bass holds the bottom end down and is very fragile.
Less is always best, unless its some effect you are going after.
Then its best to do it in post.

Bill

Virtual Tone

#4
Thanks guys for your quick replies ;)

Ok... so a real bass eh?  Any suggestions on brand etc.?

Also... DI box?

What about running it through a POD or the VG-99?  Will I still need a DI?

Speaking of PODS... do I need the Bass POD or perhaps the POD X3 which comes with some bass modeling?

Thanks for all your help!

V.T.

feloniouspunk

#5
I dont think any of those things are necessary to get a good bass sound.  Like Bill said, direct box and some compression.  In my opinion a clean bass line is always the best option.  I personally dont like anything to mess with my bass tone. It is hard enough to get a good bass sound to sit just right in a mix. It is fragile.  It should be clean and any changes in timbre should be done with the fingers and where you choose to finger ( that doesnt sound right) the note.  The bass is an amazing instrument.  I have gigged/worked as a bass player way more then a guitarist.  I dont think I would ever use a bass pod or anything like that in a live situation other than as a short gimmick.  And I dont know any bass players (here in Chicago anyway) that use them either.  And in the studio its usually direct, unless I am in a big room where I can crank up an amp and experiment with mic placement as a second track. 

As for brands, that all depends on what kind of sound you want. Some basses are very versatile and some are not.  How much you want to spend is also a factor. Does Switch make a bass?  ;D
Lots of Gear. :)

Elantric

Some like the Roland VB-99

When it comes to bass, I think its important to examine the Bass styles you desire, then examine the methods employed to get those sounds. My friend Taras Prodovniak ( Dwight Yokum, Lucinda Williams) Switches between Fingers and Pick depending on the tune. Live he uses an Avalon Preamp as a DI box - - because He wants clarity and excellent transient response.

Then you have early 60's bass. People forget that back in the 1950's, 1960's, straight from the factory all Fender Bases all had flat wound strings and  a giant Chrome cover over the bridge, and Foam rubber was  wedged in underneath to dampen the strings. Nobody wanted sustain on bass, as it was meant to thump staccato stabs with each note as part of the rhythm section, and most guys turned the tone control down too.


Numerous famous sessions were a miked Ampeg Portaflex bass amp. But modern Bass sounds come from a good DI Box, and a bit of a leveling amp/Limiter/ EQ. (Teletronix La-2a, Urie 1171, Manley) . Most session Bass players may use an active DI box for one sound, and a Passive for another
Here are several popular ones.
http://www.bassexchange.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=287



When I saw Robin Trower last month, I observed a few things, and got to talk to him during sound check 

*  Robin Plays with thick medium gauge strings, and tunes the whole guitar down a whole step - so low to High its D, G, C, F, A, D - pretty deep!!

* His Bass player was also tuned down a whole step (Lo to High) D, G, C, F  - and he played with a Pick, but he also had a piece of foam rubber wedged under the strings near the bridge - so when he played the opening riff  to "Too rolling Stoned" and "Day of the Eagle, or "Lady Love" - it shook the room, was tight and purcussive with the kick drum with good definition, yet was not the bright "chris squire "Yes tone  - but a deep deep james jamerson motown sound. But the Pick gave every note played the same definition and volume - so no compressor was needed.



So it depends on the genre of music too, if it was a Charlie Hayden Jazz trio  / or Jaco Pastorius fretless - then fingers are THE most expressive way to go. But  countless pop / rock sessions I have seen a fingerstyle Bass Player discover that his recorded notes jump radically in volume because he  cant play every note with the same dynamics with all his fingers  - so he gets pursuaded to use a Pick and a foam rubber string damper, just to get a uniform note to note volume and "thump" - without throwing in a compressor  - compressors if not properly configured have a nasty habit to instantly make the track loose definition in the mix.   
So my point - instead of brewing up a modeller and dynamic gates  & limiters- try different strings ( rotosound for bright, flat wound for dark, try adding a damper foam rubber under the strings - try fingers, try pick  - Each yield tremendous tone variations to find what you need.

Virtual Tone

Thanks guys for all your advice!!  I really appreciate it.

As far as music styles... I love the classic rock stuff.  Listening to Trower now (thanks S-MAN) Love that style as well.  ;D

My music will be all original and a blend of old and new.  Some Drop D stuff.

I like Adam Clayton sound in U2, I see he plays a Fender (and others too).

I was going to go down to SMASH (Sam Ash) and check out some basses.  Would active pickups be the way to go?

I was thinking of a 5 string but need to see what is comfortable for me to play (I have small hands).  :P

V.T.  8)

Virtual Tone

Hey guys!

What about the Variax Bass?

Has anyone used it for recording purposes?


feloniouspunk

#9
I am a firm believer that four is the way to go. I have smaller hands too, so I generally dont play much 5.  However, a 5 string should be in every working bass players arsenal, more and more people are asking for them.  Being able to play Keyboard bass is also a valued skill.  As for active pickups, well again that all depends on the sound you are going for.  When your at the store try out bunch of different basses.  Fender basses are always a good place to start, and there is really nothing wrong with their cheaper mexican made versions.  That would be a good first bass.  Please keep us informed of your decision VT.  
Lots of Gear. :)

Virtual Tone

Thanks Feloniouspunk!  ;D

I was thinking of a Fender Squier or something.  I have a Squier Strat here that plays great.  It was $99 used but my friend bought it before I did.

Later... he gave it to me (LOL!)

V.T.

BTW - My White Stein III Signature arrives today.   Monday, my Stein STEALTH arrives.  I'll let you know how they are as well.


Elantric

#12
>What about the Variax Bass?

True - lots of sounds - They work on same basic principal as our VG-99, however:

* Due to the physics of modeling the Bass instruments frequency range ( the fundamental "low E" is 42 Hz), There will be latency of several milliseconds.

* Due to the Finite power rails of the D/A convertor output - The Variax Bass could never replicate the same Dynamic transient Response and peak to peak Voltage output that any above average player could get with a stock P-Bass. 

* Line6 blew this $1200 instrument out @ $499 - even the 5 string, because Pro bass players could do the math, and always detect they were playing behind the beat, with less punch in a live setting.

Virtual Tone

#13
Thanks guys once again!

FP!  Checking link now!

S-MAN!  This is for you! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T58A2w61dD4&feature=related

Trower 1991  ;D

And this one too! 

Man... I need to cop his sound.  He plays what I hear inside!

V.T. 8)

Virtual Tone

Hey FP!

Can that bass give me the Adam Clayton sound?

V.T.  8)

feloniouspunk

#15
http://u2-atomic-adam-gear.tripod.com/adam_bass.html

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/u2s-ground-control/jan-06/16414

also from Wikipedia...

Clayton has used many different basses, but his most-often used basses are listed:
Fender Precision Bass
Fender Jazz Bass
Gibson Thunderbird Bass
Gibson Les Paul Triumph Bass
Gibson Les Paul 70's Recording Bass, unknown model
Lakland Joe Osborne Signature Bass
Lakland Darryl Jones Signature Bass
Auerswald Custom Bass
Throughout his career, Clayton has used both Precision and Jazz basses. His first bass, however, was a dark brown Ibanez copy.[6] He uses Ashdown amplifiers and blue Herdim picks, as does bandmate The Edge.[13] Clayton's Precision bass is modified with a Fender Jazz neck; in an interview with Bass Player magazine, he said that he prefers the Jazz bass neck because it is more "lady-like" and is a better fit in his left hand.[10]

And I am pretty sure he uses a pick.  But...

Forget trying to sound like Clayton.  Go for something unique and new and you.  Yes, Go and develop the Virtual Tone sound.  :D  Buying a Fender P-Bass and an Ashdown amp will get you in the ballpark though.
Lots of Gear. :)

Virtual Tone

Thanks FP!    ;)

My wife and I have seen the U2 3D movie 4 times and we're going back for #5 at the IMAX here in Tampa!  ;D

He uses a pick for sure!  :D

That's the kind of sound I'm going for mostly.

V.T.   8)

Elantric

#17
Old thread
But many believe the Roland VB-99 is Bass Players holy grail

And GR-55 is a very capable unit for Bass too

Bass player in my band plays a genuine upright , but always used a MusicMan for electric Bass - recently acquired a Squier Fretless JazzBass, and that has become his main instrument - much better fit with our music and sits better in the mix  no more " brittle "clank- Clank " , as he was known for with the MM active Bass.

HAMERMAN409

I would agree that bass seems to record pretty nicely direct so starting with a bass with a raw sound that's close to what you are after is the way to go.

I would add that a Sansamp "Bass Driver DI" is a wonderful thing to have when you want some drive in your bass sound.

BTW: Just saw that they now offer a Bass Fly Rig - looks seriously cool, it even has a tuner.