Time for a New Injection in 13 Pin Land

Started by Rhcole, August 11, 2016, 05:38:56 PM

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Elantric

#100
IMHO - One day multi hour Live Streaming corporate Events have little impact or long term value - specifically if a week later there is no archived "replay" link.

( Sure Apple ( and Samsung) both do  a 3 hour live event each year to show off "this years model " smart phone - . . . )   
Believing your potential customers will stop their schedule to watch one of 9 possible live streaming Roalnd / Boss corporate new product demo events like lemmings on a Friday during work hours strikes me as a waste of resources.

I may change my opinion on Sept 10 , if they repost archived versions of this media content  events on Youtube channel I'll change my mind.  But U-Stream is focused on Live content.

From my experience ,   "U-Stream live video " is far more popular in Asia, where ultra fast internet with unlimited data plans exist, while  in bulk of the western world today there are new monthly data caps on your internet access.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/PG8m95Hty9b
Reveals how out of touch this company ( or I am) today

--

Roland "The Future. Redefined." Trailer
9 HOURS AGO 302 VIEWS
www.tfr.roland.com "Unleash Your Creativity" Evolution, fusion, and transformation. Musical instruments are constantly changing and reshaping our lives. Their spirit and influence transcend the status quo. Acoustic and electronic. Digital and analog. Recording and live performance. Private and networked. Technology is giving rise to boundless creative possibility, with more than 30 new musical instruments from Roland. "The Future. Redefined." Roland's 24-hour "must-watch" online music festival fuses liveliness and diversity with artist performances, new product debuts, and interviews, spanning multiple times zones from major cities around the world. What does the future of musical instruments sound like? Don't miss it. #909day

Elantric

#101
QuoteI think that we can soon look forward to VG-8's and VG-8S1's failing because of we will have reached to limits of the lifespans of some of their electronic components. "Real" VG-8EX's will begin to die a very short while later.

True - but we have service manuals and all the capacitors remain available  - Its no different  than maintaining a vintage MiniMoog

alexmcginness

Quote from: Now_And_Then on August 23, 2016, 07:15:49 AM
Your "decades to come" could turn out to be rather briefer than you hope.

TR-808 early 80's many still functioning 34 years later.
TR-909 1984 many still going strong
TB-303 1982 many still functioning.

If I get another 30+ years outta my VG99 ill be 92 years old by then. Hopefully Ill A still be alive and B: the units I aquire in the meantime will leave me at least one working box.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

gumbo

It will certainly be interesting to see WHAT roland list under the sub-heading of 'Synthesisers' ....   8)    ...I would think that could refer to a number of things that have NO connection to what we have been talking about here of late...
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Elantric

#104
Quote
I wonder if Fishman is developing something new.

Well - do the math

The time is right, and Fishman have acquired the global talent and have their ducks in a row to make a big presence

* They have the talents of Andras Szalay ( he designed the Tripleplay as well as the DSP FX in my old 2003 Akai DPS2496  DAW.

http://www.panda-audio.com/designs.php

and Costas from EvenHarmonic (GTAK5)
http://evenharmonic.com/products
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3339.0
 

* They have hired the former Roland / Boss Guitar product manager  - Gary Lenair
(Peter Swaidon retired last year)

*They have many proactive friendly  / helpful support staff who are already members here at VGuitarforums in the Fishman triple play area 

I predict at NAMM 2017  - Fishman will expand their hex processing product line beyond Tripleplay - not too sure it will have a GK 13 pin interface  - perhaps a modern update of the Shadow GTM6 Mux  / power connection using one TRS 1/4" cable  that ( no surprise) Andras Szalay designed in 1985  ( most recent variation on this approach was the Tronical  / Echo Audio co-designed Gibson Dark Fire with Echo-Audio RIP Firewire box)

or ( deep breath) a true wireless DSP Guitar / Amp modeling solution. 

   

gumbo

#105
Quote from: Elantric on August 23, 2016, 07:48:41 AM
Well - do the math

The time is right, and Fishman have acquired the global talent and have their ducks in a row to make a big presence

* They have the talents of Andras Szalay ( he designed the DSP FX in my old 2003 Akai DPS2496  DAW.

http://www.panda-audio.com/designs.php

and Costas from EvenHarmonic (GTAK5)
http://evenharmonic.com/products
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3339.0
 

* They have hired the former Roland / Boss Guitar product manager  - Gary Lenair
(Peter Swaidon retired last year)

*They have many proactive friendly  / helpful support staff who are already members here at VGuitarforums in the Fishman triple play area 

I predict at NAMM 2017  - Fishman will expand their hex processing product line beyond Tripleplay - not too sure it will have a GK 13 pin interface  - perhaps a modern update of the Shadow GTM6 Mux  / power connection using one TRS 1/4" cable  that ( no surprise) Andras Szalay designed in 1985  ( most recent variation on this approach was the Tronical  / Echo Audio co-designed Gibson Dark Fire)

or ( deep breath) a true wireless DSP Guitar / Amp modeling solution. 

   

Well, I'm sure that gumtown and I will still sleep well tonight anyway.....   ;)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on August 23, 2016, 07:32:21 AM
True - but we have service manuals and all the capacitors remain available  - Its no differ  than maintaining a vintage MiniMoog

Unfortunately, when proprietary VLSI parts start dropping dead from electromigration it may be difficult to source replacements.  A lot of effort is expended on high-end ASICs and CPUs to optimize mask design and ensure little or no net DC offset in functional signal patterns.  Consumer parts?  Not so much.  EM is the number one cause for failure of embedded logic in audio, video and cheap computer components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

( . )( . )

Quote from: Elantric on August 23, 2016, 07:48:41 AM
Well - do the math

The time is right, and Fishman have acquired the global talent and have their ducks in a row to make a big presence

* They have the talents of Andras Szalay ( he designed the Tripleplay as well as the DSP FX in my old 2003 Akai DPS2496  DAW.

http://www.panda-audio.com/designs.php

and Costas from EvenHarmonic (GTAK5)
http://evenharmonic.com/products
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3339.0
 

* They have hired the former Roland / Boss Guitar product manager  - Gary Lenair
(Peter Swaidon retired last year)

*They have many proactive friendly  / helpful support staff who are already members here at VGuitarforums in the Fishman triple play area 

I predict at NAMM 2017  - Fishman will expand their hex processing product line beyond Tripleplay - not too sure it will have a GK 13 pin interface  - perhaps a modern update of the Shadow GTM6 Mux  / power connection using one TRS 1/4" cable  that ( no surprise) Andras Szalay designed in 1985  ( most recent variation on this approach was the Tronical  / Echo Audio co-designed Gibson Dark Fire with Echo-Audio RIP Firewire box)

or ( deep breath) a true wireless DSP Guitar / Amp modeling solution. 


A true wireless DSP guitar/amp modeler is what I've been dreaming about as long as I can remember. I'm not going to hold that deep breath though.

Rhcole

I'm pretty sure Fishman isn't interested in the 13 pin connector. In the conversations I've had with them they showed little interest in it.

Elantric

#109
QuoteI'm pretty sure Fishman isn't interested in the 13 pin connector. In the conversations I've had with them they showed little interest in it.

Agreed - i'm Not expecting any 13 pin compatible solution directly from Fishman

luckily we have a staff of hackers who know how to adapt gear to meet our genuine needs from disparate sources   ;)

FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0

concordal

QuoteI will be using 13 pin tech for decades to come

Quoteit's great that there's still going to be a way of keeping all this stuff running

It's easy to forget that we're still going to need drivers. Gulp.

HecticArt

Quote from: ericar123 on August 23, 2016, 05:22:57 AM
Just got an email with this link. ?????

http://tfr.roland.com/ca/

'The Future. Redefined' is a 24-hour online event unlike anything you've experienced before. Streaming live from eight iconic cities across the world, we'll be unveiling the new generation of Roland electronic instruments in real-time – and giving you the first look at the future of music-making.
A ground-breaking mix of music festival and product launch, this one-off event will introduce and demo 30+ brand-new Roland instruments, including synthesizers, electronic pianos, V-Drums, DJ rigs, guitar accessories from the BOSS brand, and more. Plus, with performances and lectures from some of the best-known artists around, you won't want to miss a minute.
'The Future. Redefined.' starts at 4:00UTC on September 9th, with the streamed action then moving to cities including Tokyo, Paris, New York and Los Angeles, as new Roland products are revealed in each location. Wherever you are, it's free to watch on the dedicated website – active from August 23rd.
More detailed schedule, artist and product details will be revealed soon. Register now to receive updates before the event starts on September 9th http://www.ustream.tv/channel/PG8m95Hty9b
Plus, follow 'The Future. Redefined'. on Facebook and Twitter for all the latest news.


What the hell? Nothing in Toledo?

Then how futuristic can it be?

;D


Elantric

QuoteIt's easy to forget that we're still going to need drivers. Gulp.

Just a current  image of your working  Win7 / OSX 10.10  - and current era computer

But I'll  be using VMWARE or Parallels to run a virtual version of this image on my 2025 computer - assuming I last that long

Elantric

#113
I agree -

I accept  FTP is the fastest Guitar to MIDI hardware system today - but it still has 15 to 20 milliseconds latency (average) per string.

This latency detracts from its use as a tool for live performance compared to the VG-8EX, VG-88,  VG-99,  GP-10 COSM Hex modeling systems.

Most guitarists in a blind test can feel the faster response of the Roland 13 pin V-Guitar systems

But talking about latency is like dancing about architecture


Rhcole

I think that Roland is moving to the EHX model of 1/4" FX with a slowly improving poly pitch-shifting technology. The SY-300 would have been brilliant as a hex box, but if Roland can sell enough  1/4" boxes while pitch-shifting is dirty and glitchy, they know that later generations will just get better. That's what EHX is doing, with good results. You lose alt tunings and many other refinements, but it is way easier and more profitable for manufacturers to go that direction.

It's like we are in a valley here: on one side are the hex 13 pin products that seem to be abandoned, moving into the past. Here in the valley in the present are products that are kind of synthy and interesting (Mel9, C9, SY-300) but can sound just gawdawful depending on what you play through them. On the other side of the valley are products yet to come that have clean 1/4" poly pitch shifting and can emulate synths keyboards samples etc. without being true synthesizers.


Elantric

I would not write off hex pickup as being obsolete

Predict Fishman will introduce an improved version that resembles the current External Trilpleplay , same hex pickup but the guitar mounted controller will use a faster pSOC ARM CPU with DSP and low latency guitar modeling built in. And support a wireless streaming connection and iPhone control

Probably occur  next year

alexmcginness

Quote from:  sec6
BTW, Andertons won't have new GK kits until November--wouldn't be surprised with the new direction of Roland if they don't get re-supplied.

.And so it begins. If you need 13 pin hardware and accessories, right after the big reveal in Sept, if Roland isnt supporting 13 pin tech snap up as much as you need in the coming months and years as people start dumping it and youll be a happy camper until Roland does what they did with the drum machines, synths and basslines and starts making the reissues.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

chrish

I predict that roland will continue to produce 13 pin products. The 'super v' will be a sy300 and gp-10 combined into one product and have pcm sample hrm. The preset factory patches will be the best thing out there.

Rhcole

Fishman is for sure continuing development, I know that for a fact. It's the 13 pin standard that is at risk. Roland has lost people from its 13 pin brain trust, they will have to have quite a bit of faith to rebuild that.

Personally, I'd REALLY LIKE somebody to refine hex COSM-type products. I love the FTP, but it's not like playing an instrument directly. I wonder what it would take to develop COSM or similar voicings for an iPad or similar? Keith McMillen?

Elantric

#119
QuoteI wonder what it would take to develop COSM or similar voicings for an iPad or similar? Keith McMillen?

I'm weary of the Apple / Microsoft / Google tight control on my mobile computer Music platform  - its all too common to experience spurts of 8 weeks of productivity, then be stuck in months of non productive  bug land, waiting for a firmware / OS update to fix what broke with the prior firmware / OS update.

Today for $300 you can buy the BeagleBoard X15 - with ti ARM 15 which runs rings around most iPads


https://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBoard-X15

Add low latency 6 in / 6 out audio interface for a GK PU and write Guitar Modeling code in embedded Linux


chrish

^that would be awesone. Couple that with some fine hex, like the one a forum member is developing. And i'd still like to have the sy-300 type and vg99 type synths along with sample based hrm.

vablows

From my conversation at NAMM inJanuary, Roland is not working with the 13 pin hex anymore for future development.
I was told that they are going forward on development with the 1/4" output and SY technology for future products.

So nothing new in hexland for a while.

That is the reason I moved to the FTP.

I also use FTP live regularly and it has been extremely freeing from the 13 pin cable jail I was in for years.

alexmcginness

Quote from: vablows on August 26, 2016, 08:59:51 AM
From my conversation at NAMM inJanuary, Roland is not working with the 13 pin hex anymore for future development.
I was told that they are going forward on development with the 1/4" output and SY technology for future products.
So nothing new in hexland for a while.

I love it!!!!!  When I see stuff like this all I hear is " BIG BLOW OUT SALE ON ALL 13 PIN HARDWARE AND ACCESORIES WHILE SUPPLIES LAST.

It doesnt get any better than that.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Rhcole

Gee Alexmcginness,

You've already got all the hex gear, right? I suppose 10 VG-99s in the closet will ensure that at least one of them works when they perfect cellular MIDI reception in our brains in 2065...

I personally am sad that Roland has given up on 13 pin. It could have been made SO MUCH BETTER. They could have changed the pickups and hardware to be less intrusive and clunky. It's a twenty five or so year investment that has reached a dead end in the evolutionary path.

Turns out the VG-99 marked the high tide, and we didn't know it.

Elantric

#124
QuoteTurns out the VG-99 marked the high tide, and we didn't know it.

but many here  suspected it


Since the 2007 VG-99  the trend for new Roland  / Boss releases has clearly been downward "dumbed down  /  less features"

For my needs,  the SY-300 is still a toy compared to a VG-99

Roland abandoning the GK hex pickup concept means Line-6 has won the Guitar modeling war to the general guitar consumer -

In this short attention span world, companies have 15 seconds to make the sale 

In 2016, Antares offers the best DSP Alt Tuning  / Guitar Modeling system available - but stuck with the "AutoTune for Guitar" brand name moniker simply continues to confuse and alienate many professionals who view it no better than this failed product marketing attempt from 10 years ago: