Good news for GK 13 pin users

Started by highlandsrock, September 11, 2017, 09:29:05 AM

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chrish

#25
Quote "But my prediction is dumb down versions of GR55 and maybe GP-10"

I hope Roland remembers that high-tech guitarists didn't support the dumbed-down 13 pin pedals like the GR-D, the GR-S and that wave pedal that they made.

Every 13 pin pedal that Roland has made has not included a pass through 13 pin connection. The marketing strategy appears to be to prefer to sell an auxiliary pedal that does the 13 pin splitting.

And then they discontinue the solution for running more than two 13 pin pedals. :o

Brak(E)man

Quote from: chrish on October 08, 2017, 08:58:00 AM
Quote "But my prediction is dumb down versions of GR55 and maybe GP-10"

I hope Roland remembers that high-tech guitarists didn't support the dumbed-down 13 pin pedals like the GR-D, the GR-S and that wave pedal that they made.

Every 13 pin pedal that Roland has made has not included a pass through 13 pin connection. The marketing strategy appears to be to prefer to sell an auxiliary pedal that does the 13 pin splitting.

And then they discontinue the solution for running more than two 13 pin pedals. :o

The problem now seems to be that they don't support high tech guitarists but are aiming for
normal guitarplayers ( whom does not want 13 pin on their precious LPs or Strats ) and because of that Roland/Boss are shooting themselves in their feet ( not only one foot ) and they will not include a pass through 13  but it'd be nice to send a processed signal from one unit to another, what you're doing with the SYs , or only pass through for ease
Well well ....
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

reingarnichts

They need to built a versatile system with better connectability (is that a word?  :) ).
Those damn fickery 13-pin-connectors would be the first thing I would abolish. Something more common and more robust would be great.
Something that would be suitable to serve as a hex-processing-standard even for other companies and DIY-pedals (Distortion/Fuzz isn't that hard to built sixfold).
The pickups itself are quite ok and usable...
At least that is what I'm thinking.

gumtown

#28
Digitize the hex and normal pickup signals as soon as they leave the pickup,
and use a regular TRS 1/4" (6.5mm) jack plug for +5 volt power and digital signal.

That will remove the "13 pin midi cable" stigma, and give guitarists "peace of mind" to use a regular looking cable.

A GK internal kit which is not reliant on the "extra knobs and switches", so it can be completely hidden.
and leaving the "knob kit" and optional extra with a few different design types,
a) all out control to be drilled into your guitar, lots of controls, switches , knobs.
b) volume/tone pot replacement only, may be with push button on the two knobs for S1/S2 switching, with eccentric stacked dual pots, so the guitar looks original.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

chrish

Quote from: gumtown on October 08, 2017, 12:21:44 PM
Digitize the hex and normal pickup signals as soon as they leave the pickup,
and use a regular TRS 1/4" (6.5mm) jack plug for +5 volt power and digital signal.

in its current analog configuration the hex pickup serves the both analog and digital world of processors and break out boxes.

However why not just have both configurations and the same system?

HecticArt

Personally, I want something like the GR55 on steroids.
We know people are willing to spend $1500 - $2400 on processors like the Helix or Kempers and whatnot.
Go big! Give us one big beautiful box to put at our feet, and let us leave everything else at home.

gtlist

yehe.

So we can have kemper quality amp model, fractal quality fx, and 13pin's own ac and nylon guitar and alt tunning in just one unit. 
Fender Stratocaster American Deluxe hss with gk3.Tom Anderson Atom wraparound bridge.
Tom Anderson Crowdster plus+ with gk3.
Steinberger GTPro hsh with sustainer pu and Gk3
Taylor 814CE,   Taylor GS Mini, Epiphone masterbilt dr500mce, martin xt1
Roland Gp-10, voicelive 3, Boss Sy-1000

HecticArt

Why not? The tech is out there.



Aka: a boy can dream.

gumbo

Quote from: reingarnichts on October 08, 2017, 12:05:00 PM
They need to built a versatile system with better connectability (is that a word?  :) ).
Those damn fickery 13-pin-connectors would be the first thing I would abolish. Something more common and more robust would be great.
Something that would be suitable to serve as a hex-processing-standard even for other companies and DIY-pedals (Distortion/Fuzz isn't that hard to built sixfold).
The pickups itself are quite ok and usable...
At least that is what I'm thinking.


Of course, while you're waiting for the World to get it's act together, you could buy some of my NON-flickery 13-pin jacks which I've been selling for over four years on this Forum..   ;)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Brak(E)man

I've used the same standard 13 pin jack internal gk kit on at least three guitars since 97 when I got VG 8 (and most likely the same cable ) not one problem.
( now I guess I've jinx it )
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Rhcole

It should be clear to most of our established members by now that, although we remain the biggest fans of Roland's 13 pin gear, we are not who they wish would buy it. They don't want to sell to engineers, programmers, hobbyists, eccentrics, and techno-geeks. There aren't enough of us.  They want mainstream players.

Although I have been critical of their constant targeting of metal musicians, I understand that they think they are a large enough audience that they might be able to woo. Roland knows that guys with Teles playing through Fender Deluxes for Wednesday blues jams don't get it and more importantly don't WANT to get it. This is why Roland seems to be increasingly reducing features to try to get a pedal for the Everyman.

They backed into a success with the GR-55 because it worked pretty well for the gigging guitarist who needed to cover multiple styles and sounds. I have seen it praised for church services and other social functions as well.

I sometimes think that Roland would be best served by just cutting loose with the kind of brilliant boxes they seem to make DESPITE themselves, such as the GR-300, the VG-99, and the SY-300. It's like the can't help but make devices with countless hidden features that a dedicated musician can explore for years. Why not go deep, and release a VG-99 and keep it in the market for 5 years or more? Let the products find a market over time, and keep a small advertising campaign going to keep the product fresh. And maybe even update it and fix bugs.

It might work.


reingarnichts

Quote from: gumbo on October 08, 2017, 11:00:17 PM
Of course, while you're waiting for the World to get it's act together, you could buy some of my NON-flickery 13-pin jacks which I've been selling for over four years on this Forum..   ;)
This is why I love this forum: There seems to be a DIY-solution for nearly everything. =)
Thank you, this is great to know for my next guitar (I'm currently working with an external GK3, so I have to live with it).

Quote from: Rhcole on October 09, 2017, 12:45:19 AM
Why not go deep, and release a VG-99 and keep it in the market for 5 years or more? Let the products find a market over time, and keep a small advertising campaign going to keep the product fresh. And maybe even update it and fix bugs.
It might work.
Yes. Todays processors are quite capable and firmware updates with new features could be a way to keep a box fresh for more than 1-3 years...
But most of the pedals released today are more lifestyle products than tools for working musicians...

carlb

#37
Quote from: Rhcole on October 03, 2017, 01:43:10 PM
Whatever they build, you can bet the demo videos will feature smokin' metal-inlfuenced leads as their primary means of enticing customers to buy.
Maybe a root-fifth interval or two to demonstrate polyphony.

With a bank of factory presets to match, at disparate output levels. The loudest being for the most ear-grating or embarsassing. Once again, we'll have to choose between two foot control switches or an external expression pedal. And no direct midi in-out. And no 13-pin output (switchable by patch to follow the input signal or the output signal). And no digital I/O so that Roland products could daisy-chain a digital signal path for A/D and D/A only to be at the very ends of the signal chain.

But this time they'll add a mono effects loop.

No wait, the new pedal will be a 13-pin fuzz box or GR300 "best-ever" box. Without 13-pin pass-through nor 13-pin output following nor midi-control, such that integration with other 13-pin processors will be a head-scratcher.

Quote from: Rhcole on October 09, 2017, 12:45:19 AM
<...>  cutting loose with the kind of brilliant boxes they seem to make DESPITE themselves, such as the GR-300, the VG-99, and the SY-300.

A VG-990 would be purchased in a heartbeat.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

GuitarBuilder

Here's the modern solution:  Cycfi Research' approach uses a Lemo-compatible Industrial/Medical grade 19-pin connector.

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

rsm

are we anticipating a GK-4 pickup design?  Most likely because I just purchased a new GK-3 that was delivered today ;) 

Hopefully, it will be backward compatible :)

rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

Elantric

Quoteare we anticipating a GK-4 pickup design?

Best I can determine - no new Gk pickups are in the works,  - but new GK 13 pin Processors are.

rolandvg99

Next gen GK should move the hex AD conversion to the guitar, use a non-proprietary cable/wireless and offer Dante/AVB options alongside the regular analog connection for GK-13 equipment. A digital signal is less prone to interference/noise in more complex audio system.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric

#42
Quote from: rolandvg99 on October 09, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
Next gen GK should move the hex AD conversion to the guitar, use a non-proprietary cable/wireless and offer Dante/AVB options alongside the regular analog connection for GK-13 equipment. A digital signal is less prone to interference/noise in more complex audio system.

Re: Dante , Not going to happen - as that requires Roland /Boss to pay for a Dante Licence
http://controlgeek.net/blog/2016/6/25/avb-and-audinates-dante-an-update-after-infocomm-2016

AES67 would be more attractive  / possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES67

cags12

IMHO - Since the majority of guitarist are purists/conservatives, they need to facilitate a less intrusive(zero perm modification) /easy installation option. As easy as swapping pickups.

Instead of swapping the 13-pin connector to a RJ-45, Lemo, etc.. A nice digital multiplexing system using a TRS jack (similar to Dusk fire) whereas the TIP carries the digital data (when in HEX mode) and the regular analog (when in MONO mode) with the ability to sensing and toggling if connecting to a regular AMP or the De-multiplexer. Power on the RING and Ground on the Sleeve.

On the other side of the Stereo/TRS cable you can have the next Roland/Boss processor and/or a Breakout box to backwards compatibility. This box can even have a digital interface to the next in chain processor.

I am new to the whole V-Guitar and while I am all in with this tech, my main road block I have faced is my own reluctance of modifying the instrument permanently. I keep looking for options to avoid it while giving access to Hex processing. And this is me, any other conventional guitarist would simply say "Forget it". 

cags12

Before anyone mentions the External GK installation. That is not an option for many, that ugly device is even a bigger deal breaker to me. Yeah, perhaps I am too much into the looks of my guitars.

chrish

#45
Quote from: cags12 on October 09, 2017, 03:51:55 PM
Before anyone mentions the External GK installation. That is not an option for many, that ugly device is even a bigger deal breaker to me. Yeah, perhaps I am too much into the looks of my guitars.
I'm into the looks of my guitars also and the external GK 3 looks cool on them. The device gives a guitar a high-tech look.

reingarnichts

Quote from: chrish on October 09, 2017, 05:42:21 PM
I'm into the looks of my guitars also and the external GK 3 looks cool on them. The device gives a guitar a high-tech look.

Nah, more like a plastic pimple.


;)

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: cags12 on October 09, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
IMHO - Since the majority of guitarist are purists/conservatives, they need to facilitate a less intrusive(zero perm modification) /easy installation option. As easy as swapping pickups.

Instead of swapping the 13-pin connector to a RJ-45, Lemo, etc.. A nice digital multiplexing system using a TRS jack (similar to Dusk fire) whereas the TIP carries the digital data (when in HEX mode) and the regular analog (when in MONO mode) with the ability to sensing and toggling if connecting to a regular AMP or the De-multiplexer. Power on the RING and Ground on the Sleeve.

On the other side of the Stereo/TRS cable you can have the next Roland/Boss processor and/or a Breakout box to backwards compatibility. This box can even have a digital interface to the next in chain processor.

I am new to the whole V-Guitar and while I am all in with this tech, my main road block I have faced is my own reluctance of modifying the instrument permanently. I keep looking for options to avoid it while giving access to Hex processing. And this is me, any other conventional guitarist would simply say "Forget it".

Gibson tried it with the Digital Guitar and failed miserably.........
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

#48
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 10, 2017, 08:23:39 AM
Gibson tried it with the Digital Guitar and failed miserably.........

because the price for what was delivered did not match the hype: their hex multiplexing scheme yielded high white noise, which was apparent with VG-99 COSM Guitar modeling. I attempted to provide technical help, but the Gibson / Tronical / Echo Audio R&D department  had no interest ( and no budget) for obtaining one VG-99,  - instead they preferred to operate in a vacuum and get product placement with the Jonas Bros at the Grammy's instead

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Elantric on October 10, 2017, 08:54:41 AM
because the price for what was delivered did not match the hype: their hex multiplexing scheme yielded high white noise, which was apparent with VG-99 COSM Guitar modeling. I attempted to provide technical help, but their R&D department  had no interest ( and no budget) for obtaining one VG-99,  - instead they preferred to operate in a vacuum and get product placement with the Jonas Bros at the Grammy's instead


They should have listened to you, Elantric!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973