SY-300 - Boss SY300 & GP10

Started by Brak(E)man, September 26, 2015, 09:40:26 AM

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Brak(E)man

I've tried the pair together and I see only 2 problems.
Back to infinite ( well not quite but) combinations of sounds .
And for it to work ,mixing the pair in real time with 2 volume expression pedals,
I need to sit down.

Even with only the factory patches on SY the combo sounds fantastic.
And no need for a mixer thanx to the working aux in on GP

I believe these two with my DD-20 will be my next live set up.
( in a year or so )

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

If6was9

Since the SY-300 doesn't have alternate tuning capability, I was wondering if I could get similar results of what the GR-55 can do, by linking the GP-10 with the SY-300 (i.e. GP-10 guitar out to SY-300 guitar input). By doing so, I could play keyboard and synth sounds more naturally and without the GR-55 PCM tracking issues of certain sounds.
Does the SY-300 offer keyboard and synth sounds comparable to the GR-55 PCM tones?

Elantric

#2
Easiest would be use a GR-55 Guitar Out mapped to "Model output" , this feeds Alt Tunings to SY-300

No the SY-300 does not sound like the GR-55


Review SY-300 Video Demos here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14586.0

If6was9

Hi Elantric.
My idea is to get rid of the GR 55 and buying a GP 10 along with the SY 300...
What appeals me about the SY-300 is the possibility of playing hi-speed passages in a way I could never do with the PCM sounds of the GR 55 and, since I don't use other instruments on the GR 55 (horns, percussions, piano, violin, cello, etc.) except for traditional keyboard sounds (pads and synths), I thought the SY-300 could easily replace the GR 55 for my purpose. By adding the GP-10, I could take advantage of alternate tunings and further synth-guitar sounds.
So what I'm asking is: how good are the pad/strings sounds (in terms of chords and polyphony) on the SY-300? Are they comparable to the PCM pad/string sounds of the GR 55? Do you think the SY-300/GP-10 setup could work well?

Elantric

Opinions on what sounds "good" are subjective

If you seek lush string pads - the SY-300 is not the right tool ( FTP + iPad and Sampltank do that for me) 

gumtown

Think of the SY-300 more as a 'Sequential Circuits Prophet 5' capabilities.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

rsm

Anyone else running a GP-10 + SY-300?  Curious to hear about your signal path...

I'd like to be able to run the GP-10 alone, SY-300 alone (guitar to main out; synth to sub out) and GP-10 (guitar out) + SY-300 together.  It appears I would have 3 outputs (mono), and would need a small mixer (which I plan to get anyway). While I have several input channels in my FRFR, I'd need to consolidate that to 1 (2 for stereo).

If I need a smaller performance option, I'd consider a Roland Cube Street EX
rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

admin

I often use a quality 3.5mm TRS cable and feed SY-300 Headphone Out into GP-10 Aux Input, GP-10 Out to PA in   stereo

rsm

Thanks!

So you have your guitar standard output going to the SY-300, and hex input into the GP-10?

This enables your SY-300 output to be processed by the GP-10, can you describe an example patch?

I was thinking the opposite: GP-10 into SY-300; using the guitar out of the GP-10 into the SY-300 would be similar to the guitar going into the SY-300 input; assuming I could process the guitar signal path in the GP-10 prior to the guitar out?

rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

admin

Gk Guitar > 13 Pin cable> GP-10 Input

GP-10 Guitar Out jack > SY-300 Input

SY-300 Headphone out > GP-10 Aux Input


GP-10 Out to PA in Stereo ( this gets all sounds from both boxes

rsm

Sweet! thanks, makes sense to me now!
rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

acousticglue

Can you not run the subouts on SY300 to computer and use amp sims and also have output from Sy300 to diff inputs to have a layer of both? I ran the SY300 to GR5 and used just the FX section and enormously created wilder sounds. And you can add cabs with Torpedo as well behind the unit.

I agree had they put in HEX sounds of guitar into Sy300 would have added great combo but also even more layering of OSC and stuff underneath hood or able to store some other sounds such as in Zebra would have been cool. Name them then manipulate them.

MusicOverGear

Here are some ideas on mixing GP-10 and SY-300:


  • Literally mix them as audio. Use a crossfade circuit like pan on a mixer. It would be easy to hack any treadle pedal with room for one extra jack, or use a 9v battery powered treadle pedal and use the stereo input jack as actual stereo audio (build the input cable - or use insert cable?) and permanently mount on pedalboard)
  • use GK vol as some kind of master volume on one of the units. probably disruptive, but if you're building a new rig this is the time to tear everything down to the ground haha
  • use the treadle on one of units as a crossfade. a midi host could either relay the default input (e.g. cc#11 on the GP-10) to the other unit, which could assign that cc on every patch (tedious); or the midi host could translate the cc to something compliant (e.g. midi pipe on mac)
  • think of every pair of patches between the two units as a multi; i.e. one pair=one patch - and program relative levels accordingly. this is limiting, but sandboxes need boundaries, right? :)
  • there must be some foot controller analog of a joystick control? IDK that would be worth a google in the brainstorming phase. that is exactly the kind of thing that strikes me as easy, such that i would spend a month out of my life trying to build it and then finally realize why it's not a popular item. worst case you could just velcro a midi X/Y controller to your guitar and tell people you are a Muse fan?!
  • abstracted, malleable midi interface with contextual controls. you could have a single treadle that is GP-10 vol, SY-300 vol, or crossfade depending on the patch

IDK in general my MO is to imagine first exactly how i want my new rig to work - draw on paper with my 5-broken-fingers-level draftsmanship - then figure out the electronics (with a barely-functional prototype) and finally i try to find and fabricate the parts to make it work. my only edu is in music - no relevant training for electronics, machining, or lutherie - so i have to really break it down to baby steps to make any progress. point being, anyone can build a really nice custom rig.

HTH
Michael

acousticglue

If I go guitar to Sy300 then have outputs on SY300 to Layla24 and SY thru to RP500 pedal and the outs on RP to Layla will that get me both? Will I be able to completely bypass by On/Off for all SY sounds?

Elantric

#14
You mention using a Layla24 , which is a multi-input recording interface.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/echolaptop.asp

This implies you are not playing live but feeding all signals into a DAW Application where you would have complete control over all inputs




gumtown

#15
The SY-300 on/off foot switch also can switch off the synth and leave just a bypassed signal to the SY-300 outputs,
it is very programmable, so I depends on how you want it all to work,
many options.

I haven't heard that word "Layla24" for many years.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

rsm

I'm new to the GP-10, having just received it and my first GK-3 earlier this week.  I've been using a GT-100 since purchasing it in March, 2015 which lead me to the SY-300 (used the group buy here!) and the GP-10...

I have limited inputs into my mixer, I was thinking about ways to combine the SY-300 and GP-10 so I could utilize both effectively independently or combined. Initially I thought of sending the SY-300 synth out (sub outs) directly to my FRFR and chaining the GP-10 and SY-300 guitar processing (main outs) until @admsustainiac explained how he is doing it, which opens up new ideas.

My current plan is to combine the GP-10 and SY-300 as @admsustainiac described.  I'm on the waitlist for a MIDX-10, and plan to use my SoftStep 2 MIDI controller (touch and pressure sensitive) to control both the GP-10 and SY-300, and add a RC-3 to the GP-10 outs which will go out to my CUBE Street EX (stereo). 

Unless I'm missing something (please let me know if you see any issues / flaws!), I should be able to have complete MIDI control over the various on/off, bypass and CC messages - though my MIDI programming is very rusty!

I'd like to be able to have various combinations of instruments and synths that I can combine / loop into layers using any/all aspects of the GP-10 and SY-300 alone/together controlled by my SoftStep2.


Looking forward, if I find I don't need or use the unique GP-10 features (instruments I will use, though at this point alternate tunings are a new capability that I really haven't considered previously), I wonder if I could combine the SY-300 with a GT-001 using a MIDX-10; the GT-001 doesn't have all the audio routing options, so it would be: guitar --> SY-300 --> GT-001 --> RC-3 allowing me to use the GT's effects for the SY-300 outs...

So many options, my head is spinning...wish I had more time to delve deeper into this!
rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

gumtown

What about the GT-100 as a midi pedal + it has built in effects and some S/R loop routing too.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

rsm

Good point though that would make it a large board.   I considered a GT-100 + SY-300, and I wouldn't need the RC-3 or the SoftStep 2.

My new board (under construction) will be: GP-10 + SY-300 + RC-3 + MIDX-10 + SoftStep 2

If I find I don't really use the GP-10 capabilities and find myself missing GT-100 capabilities, I was thinking a GT-001 in place of the GP-10, which would keep the size down.

Already have / use a GT-100 so maybe adding the SY-300 in the send/return of the GT-100 or in front of the GT-100 is all I'd need. 

rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

Brak(E)man

Quote from: admsustainiac on November 04, 2015, 09:17:19 AM
Gk Guitar > 13 Pin cable> GP-10 Input

GP-10 Guitar Out jack > SY-300 Input

SY-300 Headphone out > GP-10 Aux Input


GP-10 Out to PA in Stereo ( this gets all sounds from both boxes

In addition to the above
Is it possible to run a f.i. Line 6 pod from my resonance strings ( they have a seperate output on my guitar ) into the SY 300 s return and have that straight through without interfering with the synth  ?
To get 3 boxes and one stereo out from GP10 to avoid an mixer on stage
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch


Brak(E)man

Thank I've looked at the flow chart , but even with a technical engineers degree and a studio technicians ditto I've never trusted a chart until confirmed , and I don't have the possibility to try it right now so I was wondering if anyone has been able to use the return as a " aux input "
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Vincent

Hello,

I don't know if there are a lot of folks descending all the way down to this part of the forum; Where GP-10 and SY-300 become one super-unit !!

To be perfectly honest I'm just copying my very text I posted elsewhere on the forum but without a huge amount of reactions, likes, answers...maybe that is because I speak not only of the Boss GP-10 and SY-300 but also about a third guest-sta being the TC-Electronics G-System. So here it goes !!

I'm trying to control my SY-300 using my good old TC-electronics G-System.

The idea is to have the G-System control presets switching aswell as further control per preset on both my GP-10 and SY-300 which are meant to work as a team IMO.
This requires letting go of the G-System's internal effects, at least in my case, and only using it for MIDI switching.

I started out with putting both units on #CC16 so the SY-300 can 'hear' the G-System on MIDI.
This allows me to change the patches on the SY-300 following those present on the G-System. It took me about 5 minutes to get this working correctly. Those interested can ask me for further information of course.

The next step was to assign MIDI channels to the 10 switches or buttons left to program on the G-System. I decided to keep the first five for the GP-10 and the following five for the SY-300.

Since I haven't solved my USB/MIDI problem on the GP-10 side yet I started out 'integrating' the SY-300.
I herefor assigned a midi toggle or hold function to switches (buttons) 8 to 12 on the G-system.
Switch 8 has #CC08, 9 has #C09 etc.
This way, using the BOSS TONE STUDIO for SY-300 software, I can attach these MIDI channels to certain functionalities of the SY-300.

I can, for example, use one of the switches to toggle (on/off) one of the 4 FX blocks or modifiy the value of this or that filtre.
The possibilities really are enormous, using the 5 switches makes me play around for ages in every patch.

BUT.....yes there is a BUT  >:(

But for some reason, when I switch from one preset (or patch if you will) to another, and (all this by using the G-system) go back to the first preset, most of the values (on/off) have changed, even if I do a backup, disconnect the PC etc.

This means two things:  (let's say FX01 for the example)

1 - The FX01 block, which was OFF when I left the preset, now is ON for some reason.
2 - The light indicator of the switch I assigned FX01 to is OFF, which means the whole function has been inverted. To put it on I must switch it off and vice versa.

Can this have anything to do with the MIDI message the G-System seems to send on #CC00?
Is there anyone out there who ran into some similar problem (on these units or any others?) and know the reason for this discomfort?

Thanks in advance and greetings from France,
Vincent

gumtown

For the SY-300 and it's assigns, you can reverse the switching by swapping the Target "Minimum" and Target "Maximum" settings.

Also the controlled parameter (such as effect on/off) depends on the state it was saved in, whether the effect is already on or off when the patch/preset is selected.

You say you have this issue using CC#00, but the SY-300 CC# numbering starts from #01
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Vincent

Thanks for your reply Gumtown.

I tried the taget 'Maximum' and 'minimum' mod. I also made sure to 'write' to the SY-300 with the right effect blocks on or off.
I know this is correct because when I recall the patch using the Boss Tone Studio everything comes up the way I saved it.

When I use the G-system to recall the same patch some different effect blocks I choose to have 'off' are 'on'.
The switch to which I assigned the particular effect block concerned is 'off' though, meaning I have to switch it to 'On' in order to switch 'off' the concerned effect block in the SY-300.
I hope I'm being clear enough, please bear in mind that I'm dutch so  ;)...

About the CC#00 thing; I read somewhere (internet without a doubt) that some devices don't quite know how to handle the CC#00 send by the G-system as a 'header' of all it's MIDI frames.

I know I'm real close to the solution but this 'ON/OFF' situation sort of makes the G-system useless. On the other hand I'm pretty stubborn and not willing to leave the field before the end of the game. And if I can get this whole set working....
I need to be able to switch on effects without having to scroll down menus while playing. I use the G-system to do so, and it's the only system I actually got used to so I want to keep it in the heart of my effect chain.

I joined a little picture of the layout showing the footswitch assignment I have in mind.
I need to get the GP-10 to obey MIDI next....

Tonight I'm going to rebuild a preset from sratch trying to assign just one effect at first.