Tinnitus

Started by pasha811, March 27, 2015, 12:40:50 PM

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pasha811

As you might have noticed I've been away for some time.
Last November I had an accident with a Fender Valve Amp while I was testing it at low volume with BOSS ME-25 and a Custom made Guitar. All of a sudden a big noise (Larsen effect I suppose) hit me very hard. I guess it was an impedance thing (I had not my reading glasses with me and I had to rely on the guy in the store) Subsequently I had a very long practice session with hear-phones
with VG99 and since then... Tinnitus got hold of me. It's four months without playing with the band and trying every kind
of possible cure except the holistic ones. I still play with VG99 and Ableton Live at low volume @ home but definitely it's not same as with the band. I miss it.
Just when I had selected an IBANEZ RC320 Red with GP10 and GK3 to have a gig setup...

Does anyone has found some remedy for Tinnitus that wants to share?

Cheers
Pasha


Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Majiken

Hi Pascha, sorry to hear that! Tinnitus hit me about 14 years ago, a very loud gig likely combined with a lot of stress at work, and it's been with me ever since. I regularly read about the latest and greatest medical breakthroughs, but there are myriads of quack hoaxes out there that take your money and run :-(.   I decided for myself just to get so accustomed to the whistling that I can basically ignore it (yes, it is permanent for me and it takes zero effort to notice it). I listen to a lot less radio and CD than before, but I can play at normal volumes and I also still record and mix my own and other folks' CDs.  That's the only advice I can offer as one directly affected; I would be delighted to hear that someone here has a cure.  Otherwise, accept and ignore....
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

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Brent Flash

Tinnitus
Head noise (tinnitus) can be caused by broken or damaged hairs on auditory cells, turbulence in a carotid artery or jugular vein, temporomandibular joint (TMJ) issues.

If it is from broken hairs on auditory cells there is only one thing that show promise and that is gene therapy to try to regrow these cells. Humans don't regrow these so once damaged that is it.

rolandvg99

Sad to hear Pasha. I'm not in the exact same situation cause mine is boosted by my medication. Either I skip the meds, have little to no hiss and can't play, or I use the meds, can play, but suffer periods of increased hiss. Playing live ain't really a problem for me as I'm very comfortable using IEMs. I have found that as long as I'm occupied with something to do I'm OK, but night time can be tough. I truly hope you find a way to get some relief. Fingers crossed.
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concordal

Very sorry to learn of your tinnitus, Pasha.  If it's any consolation, Pete Townshend of The Who has tinnitus and has reported some improvement a few years ago.  And that's after very extensive exposure to loud music.  Based on that, perhaps there is hope that your more limited exposure will result in better and faster restoration

GraemeJ

Tinnitus is not necessarily caused by loud noise.

As an (ex) recording engineer, I was always very careful about exposing myself to excessive volume - to the point where, if an artist wanted to listen to a playback at what I considered overloud levels, I would say "there's the volume control" and leave the room, letting them get on with it.  Similarly as a player, I only ever worked with relatively quiet outfits - no heavy metal for me, more your small combo jazz and swing stuff.

This worked pretty well for me and I was working at audio restoration up to my late sixties.  Then, almost overnight, tinnitus set in.  Slight at first,  but getting increasingly worse over the course of a year or two.

In some ways, this didn't worry me too much - I was ready to retire from commercial work anyway and this was as good an excuse as any - and it hasn't really affected my playing at all.

Like others in the same situation, I read up on the subject a lot and I think the main thrust of opinion is that, once it sets in, there's not likely to be any cure.

From a personal standpoint, I find it is worse when sitting around in a quiet environment and not doing anything.  In the same environment, but with my brain active on some subject, even just reading a book, I almost cease to notice the tinnitus.  Obviously, I do not fall into the 'serious' class, unlike a jazz guitarist friend who suffers terribly 100% of the time he's awake, no matter what he is doing.

ISTM, anyone who does suffer should at first talk to your doctor - who will probably tell you there's nothing to be done - and then just learn to live with it.


Rhcole

Contrary to what you hear ( ;)) it can get better.

I had it bad 20 years ago after lots of studio work with buzzy synthesizers and headphones. I had to stop recording for a number of months and also had to monitor my db levels elsewhere. I did some other actions, and it took some time, but the net net is that I barely notice it at all these days.

whippinpost91850

Pasha, I hope things will get better for you.
Simular to RolandVG99, my tinnitus was caused by a prescribed medicin. They tell me mine will never go away. I still play weekends in my band every week, and I have learned to just live with it.
Good luck Paul

billstein

I also have it. I can pinpoint the moment it happened. Some guy was showing off his amp when I was sitting right in front of it.

It never goes away completely but it does go in and out. If I drink a lot of coffee it gets worse. I've also discovered that when my neck is out it gets worse. A trip to the chiropractor helps some. Mostly, I've learned to live with it.

lespauled

I have it, and I know how devastating it is.  I almost lost my mind.  But, I never gave up trying new treatments.  Nothing worked, until a Chinese doctor mentioned trying acupuncture.  I gave it a shot.  I noticed the sound went down slightly, so I continued.  I went 2X per week for around 6 months.  I now hardly ever hear it, and when I do, it's most likely due to lack of sleep.

Give acupuncture a try.  It can't hurt.

But hang in there, it gets MUCH better.

gumbo

Yep...also suffer from this..

...It definitely is worse when there's no other sounds around, but I guess I've learnt to live with it..
..my hearing is noticeably down in my left ear, and I find that background noise (like the hard walls and surfaces in a coffee shop for instance) has a marked effect on my ability to clearly hear others' speech at times..

Fairly loud bands from an early age (at that point 14 and playing drums, among other things!) and now at going-on for 67, it's the price for all those years of abuse...no-one ever thought about earplugs in the 60s & 70s!

We should all get together for a meal sometime...we could pass notes around the table to keep up with the conversation.  ;)

..still love this life though..a lot better than the alternative!

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

joaobraga

The same here.

I also have it as the result of many years of abuse with very loud amps - mine is always present and very loud - the only think that helps me is having a good atitude with it and trying to get the focus on anything else, otherwise i get crazy with it.

Now i just cant use headphones but i still play and go to concerts but always with dedicated ear protection with a musical filter that gets the music about 25db lower.

pasha811

First of all I'd like to thank everyone for all the answers!
That infuses some positive energy in me.
It's very loud at night and I also think stress might be a cause. I am almost 50 so maybe it has also to do with age.
I cross fingers everyday but sometimes the day after I cannot stand it if I have not slept well.
That's the hard part.  When I am in a slightly noisy ambient (work, house, streets) I cannot hear it. It's at night that the fight begins.

Recently I had to fly for work and my doctor told me to buy hearphones from 3M the one you use when you work on the street as a builder or in the industry, in a plant. The flight assistants were looking at me like weird one thinking it was a bluetooth hearphone..
Well it worked. It protected me and at the end of the flight the hiss was not augmented. I have noticed that I am also more sensible to loud volumes than in the past and the hiss goes up every now and then I am hit by loud noise.

At least I can play at home and enjoy VG99 at a lower level. How much I love music.


Thanks again!
Pasha






Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Quote from: joaobraga on March 28, 2015, 07:08:06 AM
The same here.

I also have it as the result of many years of abuse with very loud amps - mine is always present and very loud - the only think that helps me is having a good atitude with it and trying to get the focus on anything else, otherwise i get crazy with it.

Now i just cant use headphones but i still play and go to concerts but always with dedicated ear protection with a musical filter that gets the music about 25db lower.

jaobraga, I am curious about your dedicated ear protection with musical filter. Can you send me more info? PM if you want. Thanks a lot!
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Paresh

Meditation might help...it's the opposite of getting out of a quiet room (ie now we're facing our demons). Turning away from them/trying to make them go away just adds another level of stress to the nervous system. Too much to try to explain meditation here but mindfulness is a good form to practice - read Wherever You Go, There You Are by Jon Kabat Zinn. There are name musicians who practice it like Santana & John McLaughlin, George Harrison. Good luck!
paresh

Vade

To Pasha and all others with this affliction I wish you a speedy recovery or at least some peace.

Pasha; you mention that "When I am in a slightly noisy ambient (work, house, streets) I cannot hear it. It's at night that the fight begins." You might consider using headphones at night for some quiet music or recorded books. It's excellent for insomnia as well and you can find thousands of books for free using an app such as Audiobooks available on the iPhone.

http://www.sleepphones.com/

You also mention that "It's very loud at night and I also think stress might be a cause." and so I second the recommendation for meditation or some other stress relieving activity. If traditional western medicine provides no answers for you then you might consider an alternative approach and this one from traditional Indian medicine ties right into the stress factor you mention.

http://ayurveda-foryou.com/treat/tinnitus.html

I know a board certified surgeon here in the US who has retired from his surgical practice and does Ayurvedic consulting and practice full time if you feel it might help.

All the best to you all...
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whippinpost91850

Quote from: pasha811 on March 28, 2015, 12:13:05 PM
jaobraga, I am curious about your dedicated ear protection with musical filter. Can you send me more info? PM if you want. Thanks a lot!
Pasha
I'ld be curious also

Mrchevy

I would agree with Vade's recommendation of sounds to fall asleep by. I have had Tinnitus for years. I do not know the degree or level of it as I have just become used to it and really just don't notice it,(most of the time), except if I have been jamming in the studio with headphones at higher levels. I have, for as long as I can remember, had some kind of ambient noise while falling asleep, be it a fan, music, or now mostly just fall asleep while watching TV. I have found that audio, of some kind, that has a warm soft tone to it works best for falling asleep, no beats or percussive tempo's, just smooth ambient, meditative type stuff. Aliensporebomb's stuff come to mind. Fans create a steady white noise, this may or may not do it for you. There's some TV shows that are narrative that work well also where the narrator's voice is calm and steady, this works well for me. The key is to listen at a level that just covers the ringing, but not so loud to keep you awake. Audio that ends after an while , or a TV timer that shuts off  (after you have fallen asleep), works great for me. hope this helps.
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pasha811

Thanks again!

I'll certainly explore all possible methods suggested.
I have to say that documentaries on Universe and Ancient Egypt (with due respects to the topics of course) do the trick and I fall asleep,
especially if preceded by a glass of red wine. So far I am looking for TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy) it looks promising.
It'll be long. That's the common factor from all people I have consulted.

I wish you all and myself some relief for the hiss.  :)

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Now_And_Then

#19
Quote from: pasha811 on March 28, 2015, 12:11:14 PM
I cross fingers everyday but sometimes the day after I cannot stand it if I have not slept well.
That's the hard part.  When I am in a slightly noisy ambient (work, house, streets) I cannot hear it. It's at night that the fight begins.

See http://www.sleepmachines.com/  and particularly http://www.sleepmachines.com/sleepmachine.html - this is just one of many models available. (And of course eBay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sleepp+machine&_from=R40|R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=sleep+machine&_sacat=0 .)

I live on a very odd schedule and for years when I went to sleep I used an fm radio tuned to the interstation static (which is pretty much white noise) and played at a very loud volume - loud enough to drown out all other noise, including the sounds of the world's normal daytime activities. Blissful.

One can also find very extended tracks of various natural sounds (the wind, rain, ocean waves, etc) on YouTube, some of which are many hours long. See for example: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ambient+natural+sounds for a start.

joaobraga


I dont know if i did express myself correctly.

In-ear protection does not diminish tinnitus but in loud environments it prevents the hiss, whistles and pain from getting worst.

What i use is custom mold in-ears that inside has a small hole that is filled with a filter.
I've been told this is common procedure - what may be less usual is that in the past the filters would cut noise in general but there are now musical filters that allow to hear less dbs but still maintain a musical balance and definition.

I believe I've been told that there are also filters specific to certain intruments but now i am not sure of that.

Initially i used 2 other filters but with far less quality.
The filters I use i think are from a swedish company. This is where I bought my system.

http://www.widex.pt/pt-PT/Campaigns/Campanha%20Protecao/PROTECTORES-DE-MUSICA

- - - - -

here is a google translation:
HEARING PROTECTION

MUSIC GUARDS

The ACS music protectors will reduce noise levels in a balanced way. This means that the sound will not sound distorted or muffled, ideal for those who want to play and listen to live music in balance.

The protectors for musicians ACS has the quality seal of a leading brand worldwide in hearing protection.

Protect your ears today, to hear tomorrow.

Music Systems In-ear

The In-ear music system ACS is customized as the user in the laboratory. The system is designed in soft silicone, using advanced manufacturing techniques and the selected components.

In this way we ensure that each In-ear system allows optimum adaptation to the user, ensuring maximum comfort and isolation, to an enriching musical experience.


- - - - -

With this in-ear protections i can go to concerts and hear quite well - in the beginning it was odd but now i feel and hear quite well - in fact, sometimes i feel that i can hear even better because the sound is less harsh.

Playing with in-ear protection at band level is also possible but, to be true, it makes a lot of difference...
anyway, i am not complaining, better feel the diference that dont play at all, right?  ;)

Elantric

Many musicians i know use these too

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Attenuating-Reduction-Rating-Triple-Flange/dp/B005GBJ824

3M E-A-R Hi-Fi Attenuating Plugs 12db Noise Reduction Rating Triple-Flange Design




* Noise reducing ear plugs are ideal for musicians, concertgoers or anyone working in high noise environments.
* Patented technology reduces volume without distortion or muffling.
* Triple-flange design provides comfort making them great for extended use.
Reusable; Noise reduction rating: 12dB.

rolandvg99

I have used molded plugs from Starkey and Univox using Etymotic ER-15 or ER-25 filters for about 20 years when not using IEMs. My IEMs: Etymotic ER-4S has around 35 db reduction and my Shure 215 is also close to the same numbers. I have also had customs from Starkey and Univox, but these tend to slip after 45 mins or so. Customs sound great as long as the seal is tight, but they work loose easier than my universals (my experience).


The robustness of peoples hearing varies a lot. My cousin lost 95% of her hearing permanently after just one loud concert. So, take care, never use just one plug as it wrecks the unplugged ear FASTER, stay away from loud scenarios when not using plugs and tell musicians to shut it while placing mics on their equipment.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

pasha811

Thanks for the variety of suggestions regarding earplugs.
For years I was wondering what musician used.
Too bad it seems it's coming late for me but at least I can go to concerts again and I'm lucky maybe the hiss will give me some rest in months to come or years.

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

dagon1

#24
Obviously prevention is better than cure. It's prudent to use suitable preventative devices recommended by accredited audiologists.
As far as treatment or investigations go it's imperative to seek appropriate medical advice and not make a self diagnosis - especially if it's one sided or associated with other features.
Some drugs can aggravate tinnitus like non steroidal anti-inflammatories or certain anti-depressants.
Masking techniques, tinnitus retraining or desensitisation and CBT are among  treatments that may be suitable and again please consult an audiologist or an ENT surgeon for appropriate advice.
Avoid things that can aggravate established tinnitus like loud noises, caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. Some complementary therapies like acupuncture and hypnosis have helped some.
It's a distressing and frustrating condition and there is no one-size-fits-all treatment. There are support groups out there which can be quite resourceful.
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