VG-99 or GR-55

Started by McTam, July 26, 2012, 06:13:20 AM

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McTam

Good afternoon I am completely new on here so hello everyone. I am going to buy myself one of the above. Obviously both would be better but due to financial restrictions there's no chance. I was wondering if there is some sort of list that shows one against the other? I have tried my best to look for this but can't find one. I have a Line 6 guitar and amp and a Les Paul and I am wondering which would be best for me. I am getting totally confused now the more I read so would appreciate any help. I did go and see a band (Big Me), at the weekend and they had one of each but do they do totally different things. Help!

if you can Alex

Elantric

#1
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32798.0


The VG-99 provides Two separate COSM Guitar / COSM Amp Chains, and has an array of Polyphonic Modulation FX, and allows for user re-routing the USB Audio Send / Receive to many sources / destinations. And Four separate Analog outputs, and a 2 channel digital SPDIF Output - all separately assignable. And Very very deep editing with the VG-99 Editor. and Guitar Pitch detection to trigger an external MIDI sound engine (there are No Internal MIDI Synth Sounds).
The VG-99 can also send Guitar to MIDI Note On/Off conversion via 5 PIN MIDI OUT, or MIDI over USB to a PC/MAC, to trigger softsynths, or perform auto tabulature using GuitarPro 6.
Even without owning a physical VG-99, you may download the VG-99 Editor and see all the VG-99 parameters  / controls / FX features.
http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/dld.cfm?PRODUCT=VG-99

By contrast, the GR-55 supports 4 separate sounds at once ( Two Internal Roland SD-50 class PCM Synth engines, One COSM Guitar or COSM Bass Modeled sound, as well as the normal Guitar pickup sound.
Any of those 4 sounds can be routed into separate COSM AMP/Speaker Sim models for further processing.
The GR-55 can also send Guitar to MIDI Note On/Off conversion via 5 PIN MIDI OUT, or MIDI over USB to a PC/MAC, to trigger softsynths, or perform auto tabulature using GuitarPro 6.
http://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php
The GR-55 includes a 20 second Looper, and you can change the current patch, while the old patch / performance  is playing as as a backing loop track.

The GR-55 has No Polyphonic Modulation FX

The GR-55 also functions as Wave / AIFF audio file playback device  - as it reads files from a USB flash drive.


The GR-55 has two operating Modes: Guitar Mode or Bass Mode.

When the GR-55 is running in Bass mode, it can access all the VB-99 Bass processor COSM Bass Models.


 
The VERY Cool thing about the GR-55's Guitar Output jack is that on a patch by patch basis, you can reroute and choose the signal type that will emerge from this jack:

Choices are:

1) Normal Guitar

2) COSM Guitar

3) Both COSM and Normal Guitar


This allows you to mount a GK-3 to your Les Paul, and select the Strat COSM model, and feed your Fender Twin a Strat sound.



Bill Ruppert sums up the differences here:

QuoteThe GR-55 has;
no freeze
no ribbon
no D beam
no front panel assign knobs
no feed back effect or many other effects in general
no 1/4 inch in!
NO movable effects (like a overdrive or compressor or wah in front of the main amp block!)
limited EQ
one channel of guitar not two, that also means only one channel of cosm synth models.... you need two.
NO where near the front panel control
no direct patch buttons
FX lay out is NO where near as graphically easy to see and adjust.
on and on and on

The GR-55 is a great "synth" guitar unit,
By no means a replacement for a VG-99.
Its a different ball of wax.


Re GR-55
I was hoping it would have a few more essentials from the VG that I find a must have.
I was just surprised core items were left out.

Long live the VG-99!




Both above were written during the 2011 Winter NAMM show. Before any of us could own the GR-55 and see how it actually holds up feature for feature wise against the VG-99 in the real world.

Today after living with both units a while, I would point out that the initial impression of the GR-55's fast tracking actually was due to several GR-55's factory presets containing a mix of COSM modeling tones and PCM Synth tones. The COSM modeling is the main attraction for pro players on both units , as this technology allows you to play fast riffs with near zero latency.


Today I find the GR-55 more of a gimmick "jack of all trades, master of none" and due to the 200 millisecond (nearly 1/4 second) gap /mute / dead air / that occurs for each GR-55 patch change (while the single DSP IC inside the GR-55 gets its memory changed with the new patch algorithm ) coupled with zero assignable user knobs to adjust patches on the fly at gigs, and horrid user interface- the GR-55 stays home.
Also clinical measurements of the guitar to synth/midi latency show the GR-55 to be worse than the 17 year old GR-30.

By contrast the combo of VG-99 and FC-300 yield totally pro level results. Fast patch switching with barely noticeable gap ( due to the VG-99 employing two internal DSP IC's), and blazingly fast response to all the speed or subtle picking dynamics of the player. Sloppy guitarists can gig with the VG-99, without an embarrassing totally wrong note emerging from the Roland processor.

Different story with the GR-55, as it's beefiest sounds are the guitar to PCM synth tones, but these demand a stellar professional caliber playing technique, else the dreaded mis triggered wrong note leaving your audience thinking you are only an amateur player, and less money in the tip jar.

McTam

Thank you for your prompt response, still confused unfortunately. It sounds like you like the GR-55? To be honest the VG-99 is probably more than I can handle and will have enough on my plate just learning the 55 functionalities,

thanks again

Alex

Elantric

#3
Suggest re-read all the above.

If money is tight, buy used.
VG-99's pop up under $750 from time to time on EBay.

Or find a used VG-88, I see them on eBay for $350,

We have a good editor and patches  and a dedicated area for VG-88 discussions.

Used GR-30's are $200


Mr.Prezadent

Well here's a little taste of what you can do with a VG99. I'm running through 2 QSC Speakers and I'm getting the K181 sub soon. Feel free to comment

aliensporebomb

Or this:


This is all VG-99 except for the drums.  So the guitar sounds, "faux synth" sounds, organ-ish sound, strings, bass guitar, lead guitar with feedback later in the song all VG-99.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

datsunrobbie


McTam

Apologies Elantric, for some reason the last bit of your response didn't show. Thanks again for your input,

Alex

germanicus

Quote from: McTam on July 26, 2012, 06:13:20 AM
Good afternoon I am completely new on here so hello everyone. I am going to buy myself one of the above. Obviously both would be better but due to financial restrictions there's no chance. I was wondering if there is some sort of list that shows one against the other? I have tried my best to look for this but can't find one. I have a Line 6 guitar and amp and a Les Paul and I am wondering which would be best for me. I am getting totally confused now the more I read so would appreciate any help. I did go and see a band (Big Me), at the weekend and they had one of each but do they do totally different things. Help!

if you can Alex

It really depends on your needs. Both are great units.
Both units share certain functionality. You should try and assess what you need from the unit.

If you have a "line 6 guitar", im assuming this is a variax?

If so, and without knowing specifics on your desired usage, I generally recommend the gr55 over the vg99, especially if you dont have additional synth modules you intend on using. The gr55 has the capacity to create a MUCH larger palette of sounds due to the inclusion of its two internal pcm synths. Combining these with the gr55's COSM engine, one can create sounds the vg99 cannot do. There *are* things the vg99 can do which the gr55 can not as a result of it having dual cosm engines, a Poly effects block, as well as having more dsp for effects, but unless you add an external synth module to the vg99, theres quite a bit that the vg99 simply can not even come close to emulating effectively.

The vg99 is better than the gr55 as a traditional guitar effects processor, as it has more robust guitar modelling and effects options (particularly in regards to how many effects it can run simultaneously). It also can do simultaneous alternate tuning and 12 string emulation. The gr55 does one or the other simultaneously (ie no DADGAD 12 strings).

A few considerations for you:

Do you need PCM based sounds?
Do you need realistic emulations of other instruments (piano's, organs, horns, modern synth sounds)?
Do you need alternate tunings in 12 string emulations?
Do you need a polyphonic harmonizer?

Consider that the gr55 is an 'all in one box' live solution (foot controls and internal synths) - with the vg99 you need a seperate foot controller and a seperate synth module for midi usage. If you want foot controls, you need to factor in this cost with a vg99.

FWIW i use the the gr55 live with a JTV/Pod HD500 setup. The way I use it, I dont have issues with the patch change lag in the gr55 (which is noticeably longer than the vg99).
My vg99/fc300 stays at home in my studio now. I still occasionally use it for some dual cosm sounds, but not much now due to the improvements in the Tyler Variax line.

Good luck!
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

montyrivers

VG-99 = expensive and lacks internal PCM synths/usb flash drive playback but it has greater versatility, more flexible inputs and outputs, analog synth waves and the ability to use guitar-to-midi to drive any external synth unit.  The only drawback is, again, you'd need to hook it up to a second unit to get midi synth sounds (which isn't the worst thing in the world) and if you want floor control, you're going to need to plug in peripheral, aftermarket devices.

GR-55 = cheaper and includes internal PCM synths/usb flash drive playback but lacks flexible input and output options.  Also the signal to noise ratio on the normal guitar output makes it impractical to use in a live situation (just run a seperate wire from your normal guitar pickups to another amp).  Also, in spite of the fact that it's a floor unit, the play/stop pedal makes assigning different functions clunky.  Lastly, there's a sound mute delay that's very noticeable when changing patches (the VG-99 doesn't have this problem).

Both units are solid, but I would go with the VG-99 simply because it's the more robust unit with more overall processing power if you're trying to create an end all- be all guitar rig.  If that's not the case and you just want a compromise between value and functionality, go with the GR-55.  In spite of its shortcomings, it's definitely better than its predecessor the GR-20.  It's like re-releasing the GR-33 with a few V-guitar features.


oddguitar

I've actually been trying to decide this for myself. I like that the GR-55 is cheaper, is an all-in-one unit that doesn't require an expensive pedalboard, and is newer & has sold so much more than the VG-99 that it is more likely to get updated firmware and patches.  However, having tried the GR-55 with the GC-1 at a local store a couple of times, I've come away with the feeling that even though the synth sounds are cool, they would probably end up being more gimmicky than useful, much in the same way that effects units with many esoteric options usually end up getting used mostly for reverb, delay, and chorus.  The other factor that is somewhat of a deterent for me is having to get used to playing the guitar like a synth, which, as I found out, is very different that standard guitar playing.  It requires a very precise technique and no bending, which, to me, is the most expressive element of guitar playing.  Glitching and false notes also take a lot of the fun out of playing a guitar synth.

For this reason, I am drawn to the VG-99, which allows me to continue to play the guitar like I always have, but still have access to polyphonic effects that sound very synth-like.  It also has more options in terms of guitar modeling from what I've understood.  Since I already have the excellent KPA for amp modeling, I'm wondering if getting the VG-99 would be overkill, especially considering that Roland's amp modeling can't hold a candle to that of the Kemper IMHO.  Seems like a lot of money to pay for just the guitar modeling and polyphonic effects.  Also buying 2007 technology in 2012 just seems silly...

Other option is the Roland G-5, although I've all but ruled it out due to its lack customization (I want to determine my own tunings and not be limited to the 4 it comes with).  I also don't like having to rely on batteries.  I do, however, like the fact that palm muting is not a problem for the G-5 like it is for the Tyler Variax.  I have yet to hear of any reliability issues with it as well as its predecessor, the Fender VG Strat.  However, there would be no polyphonic effects available outside of alternate tunings and the 12-string.

The Line6 Tyler Variax + HD500 combo is interesting because it is self powered and offers total customization, but does suffer from the palm muting issue.  I have also heard of reliability issues with the Variax from a variety of sources.  Also, like the G-5, it does not offer any polyphonic effects, so no faux synth/pad sounds.

So, in short, if one is interested guitar modeling and polyphonic effects, there is no perfect solution :(

There may be some hope when the Antares Auto-Tune for guitar technology finally gets released by Peavey and Parker, since the guitars have built-in MIDI interfaces which would allow polyphonic effects.   But since neither company (as well as Antares) has said anything about them since January, I don't have high hopes that they will actually make it to market anytime soon.

-oddguitar





jburns

vg-99  :P  & i like montyrivers comparison.

cell7

I would put it that the vg99 is uncompromising in offering everything that 2007 guitar technology could offer, and it was made by Roland not to be popular sales-wise but rather as their flagship and general proof-of-concept. The gr55 is a distillation of this technology, built to a price to offer as much as possible and be highly accessible, but this includes a number of compromises [highlighted in the above posts].
Given that a used vg99 can be found at a similar price to a new 55 - my choice was clearly for the 99. I love that it is the best at what it does, and combined with any synth module or an ipad/iphone it can easily go beyond the PCM synth stuff that the 55 features.

Ed Driscoll

#13
I'll go along with everyone who said they preferred the VG-99 to the GR-55. And certainly right out of the box, the VG-99 is much more user friendly in terms of the number of quickly usable sounds, and ease of playability for anyone with even modest guitar skills. This really is Jimmy Page's proverbial "guitar army" in a box (in more ways than one, given the DADGAD and Les Paul presets...) The ability to switch from open tuning to standard and back on the fly via the control panel and do whammy bar style licks via the D-Beam, are both pretty nifty features as well. 

Elantric mentioned buying a used VG-88 on eBay. If it's in good shape, that's a great suggestion as well, as there are loads of usable guitar tones there, and if anything, is even simpler to get started with, right out of the box, than even the VG-99. (YMMV.)

monks

Hi, I'm trying to actually find what the difference is between GR 55 and VG 99...I saw that the VG 99 was released 4 years before GR 55 but is way more expensive...I was puzzled by that. I came across this forum
I need the following from it:
I'm not overawed by GR55 internal sounds, so I was going to put it through Ableton Live using midi out, but I guess that depends on what mdii out functionality GR55 has. Looks like VG 99 is the way to go for that...hmm dunno It doesn't bother me that VG 99 has fewer internal synths (non COSM) because I won't be using them anyway.
2) Depending on what internal COSM effects the units have....I'm currently using typical guitar patches from the BOSS GT8...so I get fx chains such as Delay + chorus + reverb + distortion. I'm wondering whether VG 99 would be up to this internally. I'd need to have access to these more conventional guitar sounds and midi notes to Ableton soft synths at the same time- or at least routed
independently.
3) I'd like to have the option to send as many midi messages I can- ie to be able to send D Beam info to the soft synths- although I think midi bandwidth might become an issue so the continuous controller message sends are not essential for that reason. I'm not sure what midi bandwidth is? Either way, as long as I can send midi pitch info, that would be enough.
4) It would be really useful to have the tunings since I always had to swap guitars and tune down etc. Both have this.
So, at the moment it looks more like VG 99, with two signal paths. One for the midi note out to the Ableton soft synths, the other to audio using the GT8. Unless of course VG 99 can handle the more conventional guitar fx patches I need as well.
The other way is to get all of my sounds including the more conventional guitar sounds from Ableton as well, and just send midi data from VG 99 but I'd rather not stress Ableton (cpu) out with too much processing if possible. And, it would be useful to keep a contingency of just using the GT8 sounds just in case Ableton went awry in a gig. But then, I suppose I could always just break the GT8 out on those occasions and just use that.

If I'm not using VG 99 internal sounds, I guess it begs the question why go through it at all. Maybe I should consider some other guitar to midi route. But I do like the tunings options since I write so many songs with low D (and since I use a floating trem detuning on stage is not really an option), and I'd like to be able to use slide guitar as well, so I think it still makes sense to at least go through GR 55 or VG 99.
........Reading around a bit more, I think it's possible to do what I want with both units since I read GR 55 has multi fx processor. Does VG 99 also have this?

monks

Brent Flash


gumtown

Hmmm.
I you may need to think on what you actually "want vs need"

In a basic nutshell

VG-99 has
2 x modeling engines for guita/bass/analog synth instruments
2 x fully programmable/movable effect chains (like having 2 x GT8/10's inside) including polyphonic effects.
various input/output options
guitar to midi
no internal PCM synth

GR-55 has
1 x modeling engines for guita/bass/analog synth instruments
1 x programmable effect chain - not movable - aout 2/3 of a GT-8/10
limited input/output options
guitar to midi
2 x PCM synth engines (fully ADSR/synth programmable and 910 PCM tones each)


You may want to look at the Fishman hexaphonic wireless midi only system too.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Athelstan12

I own both the VG-99 and the GR-55- the former gets used,and the the latter,stays in it's box,as I find it user-unfriendly,maybe that's just me though.

jannugimes

My VG-99 is the coolest musical toy I've ever owned, for any number of reasons (Freeze being way up there). My GR-55 is on order with Guitar Showcase in San Jose, and I have hopes that I might be able to use it in lieu of my VG for gigging (i.e. I'm hoping that the VG side of it can emulate what I'm doing now with the -99), but as has been noted these are very different boxes. I have been snickering when someone says "I just sold my VG-99 'cause I'm getting a GR-55". I've had my -99 pretty much since it came out and I have barely scratched its surface in terms of possible tones/tunings/sounds.