VG-99 -Would you buy a used VG-99?

Started by supernicd, January 28, 2014, 08:47:44 AM

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supernicd

QuoteBuying a VG99 without the FC300 is like buying a bass fishing boat without the trailer.
So I'd only be catching land-based fish without an FC-300, huh? :)  Point well taken, FC-300 ordered!

I listened to the rest of your demos, aliensporebomb - really well done!  Wow, there's so much versatility there.  I guess the VG-99 doesn't really need a PCM synth.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
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rolandvg99

Quote from: Elantric on January 29, 2014, 04:50:36 PM
Buying a VG99 without the FC300 is like buying a bass fishing boat without the trailer.


+1
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

concordal

Chiming in a little bit late here on the original question:  "If your VG-99 were to break beyond repair and you had available budget to replace it . . . would you do that? 

Like the other posters in this thread, I recognize that the VG-99 is an amazing product.  But every circumstance is different and in my situation I've been using the GR-55 almost exclusively.  Unquestionably, the GR-55 can't do what the VG-99 does, but for me, using both units hasn't been practical.

So after much agonizing I've opted to sell the VG-99 and will shortly be listing it in the Used Gear section of the forum.  Not an easy call because it's doubtful that the VG-99 will be superseded with something better anytime soon.

supernicd

QuoteBut every circumstance is different
So true...  and mine seem to evolve and morph over time.  So just curious, what are you doing in your performances or studio work that makes the 55 your tool of choice?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

concordal

QuoteSo just curious, what are you doing in your performances or studio work that makes the 55 your tool of choice?

Well, SuperNiCd, when a song calls for Brass, Organ, Sax, Acoustic, 12 string, Steel Drum, Strings, Fiddle, Flute, Alt. tuning or perhaps an effect that the lead player doesn't own, then the band stares at me with that look that says: "Well?".  Recently we wanted to do Fooled Around and Fell In Love - Elvin Bishop.  You could play the main riff emulating a steel guitar with volume swells, but the band likes the the flute patch on the GR-55. 

For tunes that don't require a synth I use the 55 as an MFX unit.  That's where it falls far short of the 99.  But for my situation the compromises are worth it.

Elantric

I'll pipe in and say the form factor of the GR-55 is typically preferred by most working guitarists who have a cramped stage.

Read Toby Krebs posts about his success using Boss Stomp pedals in the normal Guitar PU signal path on a modified GR-55 with added Guitar External FX I/O Jacks.

supernicd

Makes sense and agreed.  I've been using the GR-55 on stage at just those types of venues for quite a while now.  There are a lot of nice things about the 55, not the least of which is all the power it packs into a compact floorboard - I like it a lot.  The grass may or may not be greener with the VG-99.  Time for me to find out.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

arkieboy

#32
I would replace my VG99 too.


I'm going to sound a contrary note on the FC300 though.  You absolutely have to have a midi floor pedal with a on/off control pedal and a rocker control pedal.  However there are several other units that meet this basic requirement, a FCB with a UNO chip, a Roland FC200, a Roland FC100 with external FV50 and a FS5U, a Yamaha MFC10 ... heck, I'd be astounded if you couldn't use a GR55.  None will be as convenient as the FC300 and you will have to reprogram the factory presets to use the new controllers but all can be had on eBay for reasonable prices.


I have a UNO FCB. It works well for me - I get more patches that are one pedal press away, I never use the VG presets, and given the extreme flexibility of the VG99 there are ways of bypassing some of the luxury features of the FC300 - for instance the switch underneath the continuous controllers that you can use like an on off switch for a wah pedal - dead easy to tell your VG to use the pedal as if it were a bad horsie wah i.e. off for the first few percent of its travel. 


I have a saved search on eBay for a FC300 and I will no doubt pick one up some day but I'm in no hurry.


Steve


:-)
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

supernicd

Thanks for the additional thoughts.  I have an FCB1010 with stock firmware that I'm using as a lighting controller.  It's a rugged and solid performer with a lot of features at a great price point.  I haven't tried any of the hacked firmware options but they seem interesting too. 

The only con for me is that configuring it without a computer editor seems archaic and tedious.  I can never really remember the procedures without the manual and dialing in values with the expression pedal feels like a chore.  If I have to make a real time change it can be trouble.  Once it's set up though, it does its job well and mine has stood up well to stress of the stage.

Anyone have thoughts on the PDS-10?  Do you put your 99s on a pedestal? :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

arkieboy

Quote from: SuperNiCd on January 31, 2014, 04:56:15 AM
The only con for me is that configuring it without a computer editor seems archaic and tedious.


Indeed!  But you only need to set it up once as you noted ...


Quote from: SuperNiCd on January 31, 2014, 04:56:15 AM
[size=78%]Anyone have thoughts on the PDS-10?  Do you put your 99s on a pedestal?[/size] :)


Rack tray.  Tried the stand - took too long to setup, too messy and likely to get knocked over.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

Brak(E)man

I have 2 units but not a FC300
( also 2 VG8s and 2 VG88s )

I manage with the expression pedal and 2 switches that you can plug in, and all the controlling you can do with your fingers.

It's much more flyable without the FC300
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

germanicus

#36
Quote from: SuperNiCd on January 28, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
I've been on the fence about acquiring a VG-99 for some time now.  Since Winter NAMM 2014 yielded no VG-100, I am looking at the possibility of picking up a used VG-99.  I have a GR-55 (and quite a few other modeling gizmos).  There are lots of threads comparing and contrasting the units on this site, I've read both manuals, etc.  So I wanted to ask a different question of you, taking my preferences and what I intend to use it for out of the equation.

If your VG-99 were to break beyond repair today [I already knocked on wood for you] and you had available budget to replace it with a used VG-99, would you do that?  Or would you spend your money on something else?  Why or why not?

No.
I don't really use it anymore. I find that everything it does (that I actively use ie modeling, fx, midi conversion) can be done better by other devices I own.
I prefer the JT Variax guitar modeling. I have no need for the HRM synth sounds as I have a soft synths and samplers.
The midi conversion is not very good compared to the Fishman system. I prefer the pod hd series amp modeling.
If you have a gr55, you already have the guitar modeling and HRM synthesis. Yes its not 2 separate chains of modeling, and the gr55 is not nearly as robust signal chain wise, but in my experience owning both the vg99 and gr55, I found that the gr55 could replicate most of my vg99 patches, but the opposite was far from the case due to the absence of the PCM synths.

But this is such a specific scenario as it pertains to my ear. The 99 is still a great unit.
Do you need two simultaneous COSM chains? Poly FX?

My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

thebrushwithin

QuoteAnyone have thoughts on the PDS-10?  Do you put your 99s on a pedestal?
I use a metal rack slide out drawer, that I drilled the 4 holes in, to use the mounting screws on the bottom of the 99. The thickness of the sliding tray is about 1/8", so it takes up less room than a wooden slide out tray, and is very secure.

supernicd

^^^
| | |
That is a seriously nice rack!  Thanks for the input.

QuoteBut this is such a specific scenario as it pertains to my ear. The 99 is still a great unit.
Do you need two simultaneous COSM chains? Poly FX?

Need would be a rather strong word.  If I were basing it on need, I could probably get by with a single guitar and my Cube 80XL. :)  I would definitely like to try those and the other 99 features out and see what I can do with them.  Really the biggest limiting factor I find with the 55 is the signal chain.  I always want to add one more effect, or move something around a bit and can't.  It's not that I can't find a good compromise on the 55.  It has served me well and I have no plans to part with it.  But it would be nice to remove those limitations and see where it takes me.  I also like the idea of two COSM chains since it allows for two sound generators with no latency or worries of tracking issues.

I know (or have at least read here) there are a lot of companies that have surpassed Roland on any given piece of the 55/99 technology (e.g. KPA for amp accuracy and feel, FTP for Guitar-->MIDI, etc).  But no one has really put them all into a single box that integrates them together so well, and offers such a comprehensive level of performance control the way Roland has.  At least that I know of.  Thanks for thoughts and probing questions.  It is really interesting to see you've more or less abandoned the 99, germanicus, as you've made so many demos that are a real sales brochure for it!

I've pulled the trigger, and I'm looking forward to trying it out. I'll surely report back my impressions. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Smash

#39
If my VG99 died would I buy another one? Well I would consider buying something....if there was something else to consider that had the bredth of capabilities the VG has. There are better modellers without doubt - but that's not necesarily something that couldn't be fixed with a firmware update if Roland hadn't apparently bailed on that sorta thing quite early on.

I have to say I wasn't blown away to start with. The turning point for me was buying an FC300 (essential IMHO) and spending time looking at how others had built patchs in the VG Editor - I never use the VG internal screen anymore. There is so much you can do it's incredible although I did hit it's limitations the other day when (inspired by something I heard on the Septar demo Elantric posted) I built an analog sounding synth patch that has a separate L/R panning rates for each string on each COSM - it started to glitch quite badly when I got up to the 9th panning assignment but even so, what I ended up with (after restraining myself a little) could not be reproduced on any other stand alone box. It's a simple as that. I ended up calling the patch Panalog (see what i did there?).

And not to blow my own trumpet but I've heard demos of real talk boxes that don't sound as much like a talk box as what can be virtually squeezed out of the VG!

It's gonna have to be a helluva box of tricks to coax me away from the VG99  :)

mbenigni

Quote^^^
| | |
That is a seriously nice rack!

It would be even better if you flipped it upside-down.  ;)

thebrushwithin

QuoteIt would be even better if you flipped it upside-down. 
I like playing while hanging like a bat.  ;)

mbenigni


supernicd

QuoteThere are better modellers without doubt - but that's not necesarily something that couldn't be fixed with a firmware update if Roland hadn't apparently bailed on that sorta thing quite early on.

Really, I don't have a problem with the quality of tones you can get from COSM.  I wasn't impressed at first.  In fact if you read my very first post on this site I had a strong preference for L6 modeling.  That has changed though by means of lots of reading and experimentation.  If I have an axe to grind with COSM, it's the amount of time required to get to said great tones.  I guess that's the price of flexibility.

QuoteThere is so much you can do it's incredible although I did hit it's limitations the other day when (inspired by something I heard on the Septar demo Elantric posted) I built an analog sounding synth patch that has a separate L/R panning rates for each string on each COSM

Yep, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and have experienced to lesser degrees with Boss GTs and the GR-55.  I'm sure it's possible to recreate things like that with other hardware, but it would be multiple pieces of gear and getting it all set up would be quite a feat.  There is really something magical about having all these tools in one integrated unit.

QuoteI like playing while hanging like a bat.

I must come see your live show. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

onemoreguitar

Probably not. I really like my 99, but my AFXII leaves the amps and effects for dead. I'd probably get a JTV. I'm about to work my iPad into my rig as well for synth sounds. A fairlight, Moog and a dozen other incredible synths all in a tiny package. That being said, I've gone to sell it a few times and every time I do, I find something I need it for and back out. As a "jack of all" it's pretty damn awesome. It's feature set could almost be the be all end all if Roland could lift it's game in the COSM guitars to match the JTV and in the amp, effects and routing to match the AFX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

supernicd

You know, as many good things as I've heard about the Axe FX II, I'm unwilling to plunk down $2200 to be put on a waiting list in order to find out someday whether I like it or not.  And I've never seen a demo of one anywhere.  Are these things made by one guy in his basement or something? :)

Synthesizers on the iPad are amazing.  I do take an iPad on stage and use it for a few things (though I play it through a keyboard, not a guitar).  The biggest stage challenge in the iOS ecosystem is a way to really control and get to the sound you need quickly.  If you use 10 sounds, they might be in 10 apps each with varying preset systems, so you have to open each, load the patch, etc.  As for me, I wouldn't want to risk running 10 apps at once due to iPad constraints, so you also have to force close that app when finished.  So switching between patches can take longer than you'd want in a real time environment.  There is no "master app" I've found that ties it all together nicely for stage use, probably because Apple set it all up to avoid a "master" app.  So I don't think anything like Brainspawn Forte or NI Kore 2 is possible.  Other than that, it is fantastic - hard to beat the form factor, and the sounds it can generate definitely rival both VST and hardware.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

A few first impressions of the VG-99 from someone brand new to it in 2014.  I have only spent a few hours with it which I know is nothing at all for a unit of this depth.

I've always questioned the form factor of the unit.  I was wrong about this.  It is brilliantly done.  I like having foot controllers separated from the rest of the unit.  Control seems to be the VG-99s strong suit.  Combined with the GK-3 and the FC-300 there are plenty of ways to set up and control the rig.  In particular I like being able to free up the S1 and S2 buttons for other uses  (e.g. COSM pickup selector) since its easy to switch patches with the FC-300.  On the GR-55 switching banks with the foot controllers is an awkward tap dance for me, and best left to the S1 and S2 switches which ties them up.  It is also awesome that the 99 powers the FC-300 so that you don't have to worry about a power source when placing it.

I also really like the UI.  It seems really quick and easy to get to everything.  There's a ton of parameters and I could see where this would overwhelm many players.  I've spent enough time with Roland gear that it seems intuitive, and for this many parameters, they seem well organized. Having more hardware buttons and knobs makes a big difference in navigation.

What is up with the factory ROM presets?  There is nothing on here I would use or keep.  I am not even sure I'd use them as starting points.  If they still made the VG-99 in 2014, there is nothing in these presets that would make me choose this over a GR-55, GT-100, HD500, Fender Mustang, etc.  The ones that I remotely like are highly dependent on stereo separation to maintain their character.  A lot of the patches don't even have control assignments set up unless they were specifically created to show the D-beam or ribbon off.

There are a lot of things to be impressed with:  all of the pitch shifters, multiple movable parametric EQs, control assignments aplenty.  The FX seem like they may actually be higher quality than the GR-55s.  Does that sound odd?  Just my imagination?

So far the biggest let down are the COSM amps/cabinets.  I was hoping they'd be closer to what appears in the GR-55/GT-100.  Instead they seem closer to what appeared in the GT-3/5/8.  As you venture toward higher gain territory, there's that fizzy character that has to be painstakingly sculpted out.  I have sold off my older Boss/Roland guitar gear, and all I have now are the GR-55, GT-100, and now the VG-99.  It is really clear to me now how much Roland actually has been improving COSM over the years, especially recent years.  I know from prior experience that pre-2010 COSM can be made to sound good and even great with careful coercion, but it seems like a PITA now to have to go in with the assumption that EQ will be a requirement for any non-clean patch.

Overall enjoying the experience.  More later. :)




Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

Hmm, yeah, disregard my previous comments about the amp models.  I am a moron.  All better now.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

QuoteHmm, yeah, disregard my previous comments about the amp models.  I am a moron.  All better now.

What was the "fix" ?

Typically complaints of COSM Amp Modeling are resolved by choosing Output Mode to "Line/ Headphones"

supernicd

You guessed it exactly.  I had tried an experiment connecting it to a tube amp for an FX-only scenario, and forgot to switch the output mode back to Line/Phones.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------