VG-99 - Midi Designer (IOS) Layout for VG99 (iPad Control)

Started by cmurse, January 07, 2014, 04:42:05 AM

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cmurse

Hi Guys,

If any of you are interested, I released the first version of my VG99 layout for Midi Designer. It leverages the full midi Sysex commands to surface way more controls that you will use in the patch creation process.

Please bear with me though, this is the FIRST version, and there is a way to go to make it really rich. For now, it really helps with exploring AMP/MIC/Speaker combos and basic mixer settings.

Hope you enjoy and maybe provide some constructive feedback.

http://virtualpud.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/midi-designer-vg99-layout/
====
Today I'm releasing a draft version of my VG 99 layout for Midi Designer.

The layout contains a significant number of controls so you will need to consider becoming a Midi Designer Pro user, but believe me, I've got way more value from Midi Designer than the purchase price. Now I can integrate and interact with midi devices in ways I'd never previously imagined. Midi Designer Pro upgrade is a no brainer to me.

My aim for this template is to support the CREATION of patches, not to ease your task in performance mode...as there is already a Midi Designer layout for that. My layout goes way beyond the previously available VG99 layout as the images below show.

When I've talked to friends who own VG99?s they always said their biggest challenge was finding the basic controls to tweak sounds. So with this in mind, I've surfaced the controls that let you setup what I refer to as the FRONT and BACK of a chain of effects.

Just so you can understand why I've constructed the layout as I have...I consider things like the Noise Suppressor, Compressor, Amplifier to be the front end of the signal chain. Things like Delay, Reverb and EQ I consider to be the back end. This thought process just helped me decide where to place controls consistently.

There is also a zone I refer to as the Patch, which controls which patch number is selected and the tuning in effect, such as Standard, DROP-D, etc. This page also allows you to control the patch level.

Take a look at the Patch Page here:








rolandvg99

#1
Sweet! Thx for sharing.  :)


Now, if only my iConnectMIDI4+ could arrive soon...
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric

#2
Nice!

Yours Seems more complete than Erikbojerik's  Midi Designer VG-99 Control App for iPad 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8651.msg62024#msg62024
http://mididesigner.com/qa/492/call-for-layouts-roland-vg-99

Here is a control surface for the Roland VG-99 for you MIDI guitarists.  This is but a subset of the tweeks available on the 99, I have attempted to narrow it down to the ones that would be most obvious to adjust in a live situation that fit on adjacent pages.  Note that the 99 has only 16 control assigns (each one with a secondary assign that is ganged to the first one, for a total of 32), so you need to pick & choose which parameters on the VG you want to assign to a CC# and connect with the control surface.

If you make any cool adjustments to the layout, post them here so we can stay updated.   



cmurse

>>Erikbojerik's  Midi Designer VG-99 Control App for iPad 

This was inspiring to me and the reason I bought Midi Designer to learn how this was possible. My focus was different, based around the sound creation process, where the previous template assists more in performance mode. So all credit to the previous template :)

Quote from: Elantric on January 07, 2014, 07:51:37 AM
Nice!

Yours Seems more complete than Erikbojerik's  Midi Designer VG-99 Control App for iPad 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8651.msg62024#msg62024
http://mididesigner.com/qa/492/call-for-layouts-roland-vg-99

Here is a control surface for the Roland VG-99 for you MIDI guitarists.  This is but a subset of the tweeks available on the 99, I have attempted to narrow it down to the ones that would be most obvious to adjust in a live situation that fit on adjacent pages.  Note that the 99 has only 16 control assigns (each one with a secondary assign that is ganged to the first one, for a total of 32), so you need to pick & choose which parameters on the VG you want to assign to a CC# and connect with the control surface.

If you make any cool adjustments to the layout, post them here so we can stay updated.   




ericar123

First of all, Thank You for all of your work on this design. I have tried this myself but could only work with control changes . I couldn't find the info on sysex for the VG99. You are obviously very talented at this. I tried it with my VG and it only works a little for me. For example, I can keep pressing a button like the one that turns on or off the delay in the mixer section and it will work maybe once in 20 tries. Also my display on my VG gets screwed up and the patch name will go away and something unreadable will come on. Is there aa setting on the VG I should change? When I use the simple layout I did on Midi Designer it works fine. It is like there is too much information trying to be sent to the VG and it can't handle the speed or amount? Everything I have done on my own is using a patch I have set up with control change numbers assigned to the things I want to control. I would guess this is less info to be sent . As you know, the problem with using control change is that I am limited to only a few controls. Is anyone else having similar things happen? Once again , Thanks for the work you have done. I hope I can get my system working well.

Elantric

#5
QuoteI couldn't find the info on sysex for the VG99.


Get it here:

VG-99 Complete MIDI Implementation

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2968.0

cmurse

Hi, well the template doesn't really send a lot of information unless you're doing something like changing a volume, which would then send a stream of volume messages.

One thing I'm not very clear on is the MIDI setup on the VG99, but what I can tell you is I've never seen anything odd. I use MIDI OX to monitor the midi messages going backwards and forwards, and this is how I learned about the sysex messages and which bytes change from control to control...i.e. which parameter, and the range of values and which value maps to what text, e.g. 1 - might mean 20Hz, 2 - might mean 200Hz.

This is my first attempt at doing a template and I'm working with the Midi Designer team to suggest improvements that will enable me to create a much more powerful, yet easy to use template.

Message me here with some contact details and maybe I can work out a way to help you.

supernicd

I grabbed MIDI Designer Pro over the weekend while it was on sale ($4.99 - think it still is today if anyone's interested) and tried out this template.  Very cool!  I have a few questions.

Should the communication be bi-directional?  MIDI Designer seems to send to the VG-99 (after a bit of heart ache, see below).  But the reverse does not seem to be true.  The MIDI Designer template does not seem to react to SysEx messages from the VG-99 (if in fact the VG-99 even sends SysEx over the 5-pin interface).

Also, I'm wondering if I have my MIDI settings set up right.  Prior to trying this, MIDI OUT routing (F3) was set to OFF, and communication with the template was not happening.  When I switched it to MIDI, things start working (one directional).  Then oddly, when I switched it back to off, things kept working.

I was using an M-Audio MIDISport Uno USB-->MIDI cable.



Any thoughts?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#8
QuoteThe MIDI Designer template does not seem to react to SysEx messages from the VG-99 (if in fact the VG-99 even sends SysEx over the 5-pin interface).

AFAIK - the latest version of MIDI Designer now supports Bi-Directional MIDI communication since October 2013
MIDI Designer and Bidirectional Communication
http://mididesigner.com/qa/2049/midi-designer-and-bidirectional-communication


But MIDI Designer Templates created with the older versions - like the 2012 era VG-99 Designer Template no doubt lacks this feature.

FWIW - The full VG-99 MIDI spec is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2968.0

supernicd

I am thinking that the VG-99 does not send SysEx type messages out its 5-pin ports.

I can see the outgoing SysEx in MIDI Designer's log when I twiddle one of the knobs such as Amp Presence or Treble.


And I when I set up a controller in System-->MIDI to send a continuous controller (CC) message, and then use that controller, I can see the incoming CC messages.  Here I assigned the Ribbon controller to send CC #1 and then ran my finger up and down it.



But when I twiddle a control like Amp Treble or Presence on the VG-99, I don't see the incoming SysEx - nothing in the MIDI designer log.

If my conclusion is right (no SysEx sent from VG-99 over 5-pin DINs), then I guess bi-directional communication is not possible with the VG-99.  Advanced mode for USB with the iPad pops up a message saying the VG-99 is not compatible.  Standard mode does not seem to support MIDI (audio only, I guess). 

Anything else I'm missing that could make this work?

If not, it is still a pretty sweet template, even one-directional, and would be just slightly sweeter if bi-directional. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#10
QuoteAnything else I'm missing that could make this work?

Read the Complete VG-99 MIDI Implementation doc in its entirety

(search on "transmit" - there are 44 occurrences describing specifics of MIDI transmission and type of messages that are transmitted in this doc )
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/63185573/VG-99_MIDI_Imple_e01.pdf

Sysex Transmission is not automatic - only occurs as a response from a specific type external Sysex message.

supernicd

Thanks, I think I understand now.  Looking at this thread, it looks like MIDI Designer controls mapped to SysEx only work bi-directionally if the hardware sends the SysEx message back out when you adjust it on the target hardware.  And it would appear the VG-99 doesn't do this automatically - you have to create a request to get the value.

So you probably can't create a bi-directional template for the VG-99 with MIDI Designer.  You'd need to use something like Lemur which has a scripting language that would allow you to send requests to the VG-99 for the parameters of interest every X milliseconds and update the template controls to match. 

Does that sound right?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#12
For additional incite into Roland/Boss MIDI Sysex - read the entire GR-55 MIDi thread here - focus on GumTown's posts there.

Roland is consistent with their Sysex Transmission and bulk of knowledge shared regarding the GR-55 MIDI Implementation remains applicable to the VG-99   
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3348.0
===========

Quote from: Click Sky Fade on April 16, 2011, 12:07:39 PM
1) i am trying to control various setting ( currently achievable through gymtowns excellent editor) using a behringer BCF2000 with limited success. Now correct me if i'm wrong but the GR-55 doesn't send sysex messages for parameter changes? (I have used midi monitor and sysex librarian (OSX) to check this).
The GR-55 doesn't send sysx data unless a data request is sent to the GR-55 via midi  from an external source.

Quote from: Click Sky Fade on April 16, 2011, 12:07:39 PM
2) Does anyone know if there is an application allowing one to change certain values of sysex data using a specific MIDI controller? ( eg. F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 10 0A 00 4E F7 -> change the last byte of 00 with 01 using CC77)
I am not familiar with mac software, you might notice on the modeling and PCM tone switching that they are actually logicaly backwards "00" = on and "01" = off.
Sometimes i do use an Edirol PCR-M1 small keyboard controller to send sysx data to devices.
The Gr-55 is not fussy about a correct checksum, any value will do for parameter control.


Quote from: Click Sky Fade on April 16, 2011, 12:07:39 PM
3) And finally and I suppose this should be in the GR-55 Editor thread as it is aimed at gumtown, how about incorporating midi control within the editor in order to resolve question 2?
The Gr-55 Assigns should cover most needs from any midi sequencer, the assigns are capable of using external cc# continuous controller midi data to change GR-55 parameters on almost all patch parameters.

F.Y.I. You can set GR-55FloorBoard to "deBug Mode" from the midi settings menu, and watch the sysx data sent by the editor on the bottom left status-bar, good way to learn the midi spec for each parameter.

supernicd

Thank you - this is good info, and hopefully I can figure out a bit more about interacting with Roland products via SysEx from the info here.  Would it kill Roland to make a couple page document explaining this with some examples? :)  I know, it's stuff 99.99% of consumers could care less about.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#14
QuoteThank you - this is good info, and hopefully I can figure out a bit more about interacting with Roland products via SysEx from the info here.  Would it kill Roland to make a couple page document explaining this with some examples? :)  I know, it's stuff 99.99% of consumers could care less about.

All links below are worth reviewing:


Roland System Exclusive Implementation
http://www.chromakinetics.com/handsonic/rolSysEx.htm

http://www.2writers.com/eddie/tutsysex.htm

http://www.kidnepro.com/blog/sysex-made-simple/




gumtown

The VG-99 will work like other Roland products, it can receive a single sysx parameter or a whole range of parameters, the same goes for requesting sysx data from the VG-99, either a single parameter, a block of patch data, a complete patch, or a range of patches (bulk dump).
Generally an editor program will send a patch change message to the VG-99, then the editor will request the whole patch be sent back so the editor parameters are 'in sync' with the VG-99 parameters.
Once they are both in sync, you only need to send sysx data to the VG-99, as the data changes sent to the VG-99 are reflected in both the editor and VG-99 at the same time.
So no need to retrieve single parameter data.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

supernicd

Thanks Elantric and Gumtown!  I haven't worked with Roland SysEx before.  In my very limited experimentation with SysEx, the device I was working with sent the SysEx message automatically rather than having to explicitly request a parameter.  This is a little different but I think I can figure it out from the info above.  If not I may be back with more questions.  ;)

It occurred to me while thinking about the bi-directional controller template that SysEx might work nicely in my other pet "how to kill a holiday weekend" project.  If I can send SysEx messages rather control change messages, it eliminates the whole mess of having to configure patch assigns specifically to work with the controller.  I.e. the template could work with any patch, user or factory, without any special setup.  At least that's the theory...
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

gumtown

Quote from: SuperNiCd on December 01, 2014, 01:01:34 PMIf I can send SysEx messages rather control change messages, it eliminates the whole mess of having to configure patch assigns specifically to work with the controller.  I.e. the template could work with any patch, user or factory, without any special setup.  At least that's the theory...
Did a lamp just switch on?  ;D
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

supernicd

Quote from: gumtown on December 01, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
Did a lamp just switch on?  ;D

Why yes it did!  And that always makes me happy, to know that the ol' lamp still works. ;)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Vaultnaemsae

It looks like cmurse's MIDI Designer layout for VG-99 is no longer available.
Would anybody who has the layout file be prepared to share it? :)
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae

admin


Vaultnaemsae

Thanks. Also cmurse kindly responded to my post on his blog with an updated DB link. Tested it out earlier today - nice simple layout.
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae