Mount GK-3 internal kit in custom external box?

Started by mooncaine, January 10, 2017, 01:17:48 PM

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mooncaine

I have been thinking, from time to time, about the best way to mount a GK-3 on my favorite headless Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro (the classic 'boat oar' 80s shape).

The GK-2A was easier to fit, but the GK-3 external is not a good shape to stick on this particular guitar. Here's what the GK-2A looks like on my Steinie:


I'm wondering if a 'case mod' would work, and what do you think? What ideas, what warnings, can you think of?

Here's a quickie sketch of my idea (sketch is not "to scale!" I just eyeballed it in 5 minutes). I'd take the guts of a GK (probably external kit), make or buy a box about like this sketch, and mount everything there. Then I'd stick it to the edge of my guitar. Theoretically, I can 3D-print the box, but I don't know if it'll be exact enough for me to mount the 13-pin and guitar input jacks, or firmly attach the internal parts to the plastic box.

Should I use an internal kit, or start with an external kit? I'd like it to be removable, so probably external. I'm afraid that the pickup on the internal won't be attached as durably as the external version. If I had to settle for semi-permanent install, I'd go with instead. The box idea probably wouldn't suit other guitar shapes, anyway.




Headless68

Why not go with internal kit & route a cavity on the opposite side to the existing control cavity

Use a Gumbo 13 pin socket (needs less room & less routing)

Consider losing tone pot & put the gk pot there

S1/s2 either on the side edge of the guitar or replace with a single 3 way momentary on/off/on

That's what I would do :-)

ffata

#2
http://www.headlessusa.com/restoration-2

Scroll to the bottom of the page for images of a Steinberger GL2T-GR restoration.
Maybe the pics could give you inspiration/direction.

I own one of those Roland GL's, great guitar btw. I just need the funds to get it to Mr. Babicz for a good cleanup/restoration.
Still works but many gig miles...
HTH


mooncaine

Quote from: Headless68 on January 10, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
Why not go with internal kit & route a cavity on the opposite side to the existing control cavity
Mostly cuz I don't want the bother. The external box interests me more. More easily messed with later.

But I'll consider it, cuz, why not, the wood's not so darn special. I definitely don't want to make it neck heavy, though. Hate that.
Quote from: Headless68 on January 10, 2017, 01:36:42 PMUse a Gumbo 13 pin socket (needs less room & less routing)
Quote from: Headless68 on January 10, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
Consider losing tone pot & put the gk pot there
I'm so with ya on the tone pot; it's already gone and I'm kinda getting spoiled by having some room to play where a volume knob used to get in the way sometimes. If I did put a GK pot there, I'd go small. I really want sorta soft, knurled silicone knobs. Easy to grip and turn. Durable.

Quote from: Headless68 on January 10, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
S1/s2 either on the side edge of the guitar or replace with a single 3 way momentary on/off/on
If internal, I'd probably  lean to the 3 way switch. Maybe I should go with that anyway. If I had my druthers, they'd be big, strong buttons like we used to see on coin-op video games of the early 1980s!

One reason to do this in an external box is to leave room inside the guitar for other stuff, and to have a somewhat reversible mod (I could take it off the guitar and put it on another, though obviously not just any guitar shape would work with this box).

I'm also open to the idea of putting on a flatter, smoother box on the back of the guitar. It would be rounded or beveled to be as comfy as possible. Not my favorite idea, though.

mooncaine

#4
Oh, and dig this about the guitar such a box is meant for: it's routed H-S-H, but has a Duncan Vintage Stack Tele in the bridge or something similar (their names are too goofy to remember), a Duncan Pearly Gates neck humbucker (awesome pickup), and nothing in the middle single-coil pickup hole. That space is available. This guitar will eventually host a Virtual Jeff, if they ever frickin' sell me one, or something like it, so that space might be taken up with a little circuit board or computer someday).

The reason I put a Stack p/u in the bridge slot is to make room for the GK, cuz it needs to be far enough away from the bridge to work properly on me VG99, as described here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13322.0

mooncaine

ff, that Steinberger is divine, what a privilege to have such a thing. Yeah, I'd fill that space up, too. Yea, baby!

mooncaine

ffata, I totally forgot about the knobs on the top edge of those vintage Roland-ready Steinbergers. Yeah, that's probably where I would put this notional external GK box.

I *could* put the box down below, along the bottom edge, and if I'm 3dprinting it, I could shape the bottom into a curve or knee rest... but it'd have to be tougher and would take more stresses, in ordinary use, than if I put it on the top edge.

Whatever I do, I want to be able to fit the guitar into a gig bag. It currently squeezes in, with that extension you see in my photo.

So what puzzles me about building these things is: how do you put the circuit board in?

admin

#7
QuoteSo what puzzles me about building these things is: how do you put the circuit board in?

I would order an internal GK-KIT-GT3  from Andetons UK  ( it arrives in 4 days anywhere) and install the guts in a small box, the internal Kit PCB board is physically  smaller and fits in more places compared to  the odd shape External GK-3 or GK-2A PCB

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11241.msg81997#msg81997

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/GKKITGT3/electric-guitar-pickups/roland-gk3-internal-pickup-kit




mooncaine

Thanks, Elantric. That confirms my first guess (internal kit would better for this). Seeing photos of the 80s RR Steinberger makes me want to emulate that knob layout.

Now I need to do some reading on how to design a plastic case with the right kind of standoffs* or pillars inside that: a) hold the circuit board securely, spaced safely far enough away from the walls of the case and b) how to design a case that I can screw together or snap together, and disassemble again safely without breaking it.

As I type this, I realize I might not need many screws inside, maybe just pegs that meet together, top and bottom, at each screw hole of the circuit board.

If any of you have favorite sites or sources for this type of knowledge, pass me a link or book title or whatever you recommend, OK?

*I'm not 100% sure I'm using that word corrrectly yet.



whippinpost91850

You could just Velcro the circuit board to the inside of the box

admin

#10
Try MAKE Magazine
http://makezine.com

Find a local robotics club to network with local hardware hackers


and review links in our DIY Section

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0

And GK luthier section 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=183.0

gumbo

Quote from:  sec6
Don't know if you would be interested in the box being detachable from the hex pickup.  This would help with fitting in gig bag and could be potentially used on additional guitars with hex pickups with an 8-pin output connector.  If so, you could do a Roland GK version of the RMC Poly-Drive II: http://www.rmcpickup.com/polydriveii.html

Interesting concept to 'float past'...
...with all the (1-into-2, 2-into-1) hex pickup leads that I have built for various people, it would be no problem to conjure up a 'pickup extension lead' with the appropriate 8-pin socket on the end to accept the original 8-pin pickup multiplug, and have that hanging out of "The Box"...   8)   ...the other end of that would just have another 8-pin (pickup) multiplug to connect directly with the un-altered GK-3 mainboard.

...now, what was I really doing today?   ???

Peter

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Elantric

#12
inline disconnect for GK-3 Hex PU - Could be accomplished with  two of these

TRRS cable #1  for e,b,d string+ground shield

TRRS cable #2 for g,a,E string+ground shield





4pole 3.5mm TRRS plugs and jacks



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5set-1-8-3-5mm-male-4-pole-stereo-plug-female-jack-Audio-TRRS-connectors/507141_1917167489.html


whippinpost91850

How long a cable do you think you could  have between GK3 p-up and the pc board?

gumbo

#14
Quote from: whippinpost91850 on January 12, 2017, 03:35:49 PM
How long a cable do you think you could  have between GK3 p-up and the pc board?

I've done a Y-cable with one leg at about 18 inches, and the pickup worked without probs.  (That's measuring the Y-cable leg & the original attached pickup loom together).

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

gumbo

#15
Quote from: Elantric on January 12, 2017, 03:32:48 PM
inline disconnect for GK-3 Hex PU - Could be accomplished with  two of these

TRRS cable #1  for e,b,d string+ground shield

TRRS cable #2 for g,a,E string+ground shield








Now if I could just figure out how to plug all that into my iPhone, and BlueTooth my way to something that ran the whole show... ::)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

whippinpost91850

Thanks Peter I am still thinking about an all-in-one box for FTP, GK, and ATG.. I was wondering if a 15' ( 3 meter) cable would maybe work

whippinpost91850

Quote from: gumbo on January 12, 2017, 05:53:09 PM

Now if I could just figure out how to plug all that into my iPhone, and BlueTooth my way to something that ran the whole show... ::)

+1 That would be the cool thing to do ;D

gumbo

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on January 13, 2017, 07:09:53 AM
Thanks Peter I am still thinking about an all-in-one box for FTP, GK, and ATG.. I was wondering if a 15' ( 3 meter) cable would maybe work

Hmmm...  dunno about that..
..If I can figure out a way to improvise a test, I'll let you know...
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

whippinpost91850


Tony Raven

Instead of two 3.5mm plugs, wouldn't something like an M12 be better?



They're not uncommon in industrial settings, or to an RJ45 for ethernet. I use the M12 on an assembly I build pretty much every day. Takes less than two seconds to get the pins aligned, then two more to twist the locking collar into place, & it seats with a clear "click" but all conductors read positive as soon as the connectors align.

I've considered reworking a GK into using 8-pin M12 -- declining mag pickup passthru, volume knob, & up/down buttons -- & a breakout box at the other end to go back to standard 13-pin. From the source I swiped the photo from, a 5m cable is $36, 10m $55, which beats GKC street prices at the cost of maybe soldering a connector. (The M12 is available in 12-pole, but unshielded.)

mooncaine

I received my internal GK-3 kit the other day, and an external, too. (BTW, the pickup polepieces look the same, to me). Still waiting on the calipers for measuring stuff.

I plan to go with 13-pin cables, and I expect to use a Synth-Linx jack. I'll decide later which kind of jack, after I've worked on the box design and have a better idea what size/shape, etc.

The notion of disconnecting the pickups is great, should have been designed that way from the outset so that we could close our friggin guitar cases, but it's too late, IMO. Not worth my trouble. Speaking of cases, my dream is for this to remain on the guitar, and fit in the Steinberger's gig bag, but be removable (with tools) in case I want to strip the guitar back down to a normal, non-hexaphonic guitar.

I revised my idea for its shape, but I'm not sure yet if I can make all the jacks fit this idea. To paraphrase Sagan, there is much to learn.


mooncaine

I think I'm putting this project on hold. Not sure I want to keep spending time & cash into a guitar I can't easily get replacement parts for. I'm playing out more and gotta think about what would happen if I had to replace/repair my main axe right away.

D--- thing does fit me perfectly, though.

ffata

A little OT about those small black Steinberger guitars.
I recently picked up Steve Jones' memoir (guitarist from the Sex Pistols) "Lonely Boy".
I didn't read it proper, just skimmed it first. I always do that, I don't know why.
It's gonna be a good read.
He did include a small appendix which I found kinda funny and thought I would share it.

The list continues on the next page, it gets better, but his choice of words might be questionable to some, so I didn't include it.
It's funny though!
After reading this I can safely assume that Mr. Jones isn't gonna be showing up at VGuitarForums any time soon asking about the latest
hex pickup breakthroughs! ;D


mooncaine

Advice on rock and roll from him is like advice on gardening from aphids.