Replacing S1/S2 with a kill-pot and a 555/556 chip

Started by CodeSmart, July 27, 2013, 10:06:42 AM

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CodeSmart

Hi, I am just wondering what you guys think of this idea for the GK-KIT installation. Instead of mounting the regular 50k pot install a SH124 kill pot (thomann.de) 250k pot (a 25k om is also available). When the pot is pressed and released within a "short" time a pulse is fired on S1 line. If however the pot is kept down a "longer" time, a 555 timer starts to send abt. 500ms pulses on the S2 line, in this mode when released there's no S1 pulse sent. I have not done the schematics but I think it would be possible to implement it on a small board powered by the GK power. Anyone done something similar?

Another project would be to use 555 timers to make S1 and S2 "auto-repeat" when the buttons are pressed a long time (just like a keyboard).
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Elantric

sounds like an idea worth exploring and prototyping on the R&D bench first.

but today there are cheap PIC or Atmel AVR embedded controller ICs under $5

many ways to achieve more GK control.

one day Gumtown may have time to complete his wireless GK Controller.

CodeSmart

Agree circuit selection might be different, but the basic idea having a short click=S1 and looong click=repeating S2 was the the thing I wanted to get some feedback on ( i.e. integration of VOL and S1/S2 in same drilling hole). Personally I only use S1/S2 for patch change. I just wonder how it would feel. So guys out there, does the whole idea suck?
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Elantric

my 2 cents - many VG-8, VG-88, VG-99 Users use the S1 S2 switches within one COSM Strat patch as a virtual PU Selector. In my own Needs, I prefer the Godin Method - with the spring loaded center off 3 way switch to access S1 and S2.  Another rare hurdle is the RackVax, which uses modes of responding to simultaneous S1 S2 (both switches pressed at same time) to change Variax Modes remotely via the Gk-3

drjoness2001

I think I have an easier solution: use the internal wave pedal and do everything in software, using the triangle setting.

This gives you more control options, and you can program the speed of the pulse.

You can use GK S1 or S2 as a trigger for the internal wave pedal.

You can use control range settings to make the triangle wave act as a square wave, if you think of a triangle wave as going from 0-100, then one control range setting would be 50-100, and the other 0-49, then assign the output of this to whatever you want to control.

These functions are noted, but not in great detail, in the VG-99 manual on page 156, and in the GR-55 on pages 57 and 58.

Wayne

CodeSmart

Thanks Wayne, That's an interesting approach. I'll check it out.

Would like them repeating buttons when jumping around the patches. I keep the set list at patch 1-40 but has some "special" things at higher patch numbers in my GR-55.
Getting into that region while just keeping S1 down would be convenient.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumtown

An indented (clicker like the GR-55 patch/value dial) rotary encoder for the S1/S2 might be a worth while look at too, for patch up/down or controller values.
And just use a regular guitar knob.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fokof

Someone knows a shop who would do custom pots ?


I have two ideas how to combine GK volume and S1/S2:

Concentric pot with center being the pot and concentric being S1/S2
Like older Soundcraft console where the outside knob is flat.
Center spring returned on each side.

OR

a single pot that would rock on an up and down axis , the axis being the S1/S2 switch.
That would be more practical if the pot would have a certain physical resistance so when the pot is rocked for S1/S2 , the value would not be changed accidentally.


I tried to make a custom pot-S1/S2 , still works , but having to pull for S2 is not practical.

CodeSmart

#8
Take a look at these guys in U.S.
http://www.cole-switches.com/

http://www.cole-switches.com/pdfs/s3600.PDF
Model 3605 looks like a spring return (on)-off-(on) Rotary switch, and I get the impression you can add-a-pot to it using dual shaft. Have no clue about price....or minimum orders.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumtown

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 29, 2013, 02:08:11 PM
Take a look at these guys in U.S.
http://www.cole-switches.com/

http://www.cole-switches.com/pdfs/s3600.PDF
Model 3605 looks like a spring return (on)-off-(on) Rotary switch, and I get the impression you can add-a-pot to it using dual shaft. Have no clue about price....or minimum orders.
Nice catalog of switches in there,
look like they might be of good quality too.
The dual stack 1>2<3 spring return switch + pot would be ideal for a GK setup.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

Just for the record of this old thread. I've just met the European rep. for Cole pots/switches. They are VERY expensive. Their market is military applications. You get a pretty ok guitar for the price of a pot.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Machh_2

you can use a 556 (doble timmer) pulsing a 4066 (4 switches put 2+2 parallel, 2 for each timmer ) conected on S1/S2 places... and the S1/S2 switches stay in serial with 4066 switches out, so you let circuit pulsing all the time , when u press S1 or S2 the pulse arrives on ic board.
you also can try a 556 pulsing a 4013 (2 flip-flops) pulsing a 4066 ( 2 sw in parallel each flip-flop).

But, the most simple way is you use a same pot of GR-55 dial, this pot is a rotary switch, you can separate both pot switches using 1n4148 diodes and put pot on S1/S2 places, when you spin pot to one or other side, the datas will change fast, and you can let original S1/S2 in parallel, to use when you want only one pulse..
think about...
sorry my crazy ideas and my english,

Machh

alexmcginness

Just had an idea. Is it possible to replace the s1 s2 switch with a pot and use that for a tone control or just replace just the s1 with a pot and use it for tone control?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

sixeight

Quote from: alexmcginness on June 10, 2016, 03:58:53 AM
Just had an idea. Is it possible to replace the s1 s2 switch with a pot and use that for a tone control or just replace just the s1 with a pot and use it for tone control?

You cannot replace a switch with a pot. They are two completely different electronic components. That is why this post talks about timers and other components to make a working solution...

alexmcginness

Quote from: sixeight on June 11, 2016, 07:08:11 AM
You cannot replace a switch with a pot. They are two completely different electronic components. That is why this post talks about timers and other components to make a working solution...

I recall that someone did a mod that replaced s1 and s2 with a 5 position switch and he put resistors on it to  make it work...hence the question about the pot instead of the switch. If you can make it work with a 5 position switch, why not a pot that will give you various resistances and map that to the tone pot with a minimum and maximum value?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Elantric

#15
QuoteJust had an idea. Is it possible to replace the s1 s2 switch with a pot and use that for a tone control or just replace just the s1 with a pot and use it for tone control?

Many folks use a EV-5 Expression pedal ( which is a 10K Linear Pot in a pedal) and connect it to the external Expression pedal input, and use a Control Assignment  mapped to COSM Modeled PU Selection, and then change the current pickup with your foot.

Prior to the release of the GK-3 PU in 2004, inside the GK13 cable , Pin #8 was a spare / not used connection, and folks modded their VG-8 / VG-88 by connecting a wire from the VG-8 / VG-88 External Expression pedal jack to GK 13 Pin #8 to and mod their guitar by installing a 10K linear with the pot wiper feeding Pin #8 , and use a Control Assignment  mapped to COSM Modeled PU Selection, and then change the current pickup by rotating the pot.   


QuoteI recall that someone did a mod that replaced s1 and s2 with a 5 position switch and he put resistors on it to  make it work...

Strat 5-way switch to control modeled/COSM pickup selection
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=45.0

But it requires a GK Processor that has an Expression Pedal Jack  - ( so not possible on  GR-55)

alexmcginness

VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

admin

I'm reminded that I used a pair of these pots for "stealth" internal RMC PolyDrive1  installation on a Les Paul -

connected one "Kill Switch" element on the Neck Vol pot to the "S1" momentary  switch input on GK-KIT-GT-3 or Polydrive or Ghost Hexpander
connected the other "kill Switch" element in the Bridge Vol pot to the "S2" momentary switch input on GK-KIT-GT-3 or Polydrive or Ghost Hexpander
   
less control clutter on the guitar


----------
Shadow Kill Pot Guitar Bass Potentiometer with Push Switch to Kill the Sound Audio or Linear Taper A25K/A250K/A500K/B25K/B250K/B500K
$20

https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Guitar-Potentiometer-Switch-Linear/dp/B07MX65TB8/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1550700836&sr=1-3&keywords=shadow
Used for For electric guitar/bass,with push switch to kill the sound. Please consult your local luthier to install the professional pot.
Hard-wearing, specially designed potentiometer with momentary push-switch which can turn off the sound temporarily.
Mounting busing: 16 mm; M7 x 0.75 thread
250K for single coil pickups and 500K for humbucker pickups
Audio Taper (A) increases or decreases in a sloped curve fashion; Linear Taper (B) increases or decreases in a linear fashion. Audio Taper (A) are always used as Tone and Linear Taper (B) are always used as Volume, but you can use Audio Taper as Volume and Linear Taper as Tone as well,it usually depends on your personal preference.